From: Brian Dare Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 28 Apr 95 15:42:00 Subject: HELLO? UpdReq >It's been about two weeks now with no traffic at *all* coming thru in the >Thelema echo...all the NuitNet echos, come to think on it. Anybody reading me? >A bunch of Thelemites surely can't be *that* quiet!!...can they? You too, eh? I thought _I_ was the only one who felt posts have been a little slow out here. ;) Well, while I'm here, I DO have a question for any out there (sorry to go back to an old topic, but before was comical, this is serious): I have seen in print two versions of the Liber Resh. One of these is performed with the God forms assumed being, I am told, as if one is standing at the intersection of the Paths Samehk an Peh, the other using the Golden Dawn Elemental grade signs as they are attributed to the quarters in the LBRP. Anyone have any comments on this? In LVX, BD P.S., Hi, Rose! ~ SLMR 2.1a ~ Cthulhu, eh? If he's so powerful why is he so ugly? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grey Area: Thelema To: Kevin Bold 1 May 95 23:23:46 Subject: Re: The Unicursal Hexagram UpdReq I really have no idea why you're getting so upset. Am I pissing in your Wheaties or something? Grow the fuck up. Ok, I suppose I'll spell it out since you asked. -deep breath- G> It does help somewhat to lay the pentagrams out on G> the Tree O' Life when doing G> this. This way, it is done twice, once below the G> Abyss and once across it (NOT G> above it). The first unicursal hexagram has the G> lower point in Malkuth and the G> uppermost point in Tiphareth, with Yesod in the G> center. I interpreted that as G> attaining to Knowledge and Conversation. The other G> set of figures, the one G> lying across the Abyss, has the lower point in G> Tiphareth and the upper point G> in Kether. The interpretation is obvious. KB> The Abyss is in the area between the Supernal Triad (Kether, Chokmah, KB> Binah) and the Second Triad (Chesed, Geburah, Tiphareth). What do Yesod KB> and Malkuth have to do with this? Additionally, Tiphareth is where one KB> attains KGHGA; Yesod is the Vision of the Machinery of the Universe. KB> As for the resulting Unicursal Hexagram you find so amazing, you forget KB> that since most depictions of the Tree place the Sepiroth at distances KB> from each other resembling hexagonal vertices, when you try to KB> superimpose two pentagrams over each other in a hexagon will give a KB> Unicursal Hexagram. To this I can only say, "So what?" KB> As for what Yesod and Malkuth have to do with the Abyss, try reading the text you yourself quoted. The first unicursal hexagram described has its base in Malkuth, where the magician stands. The upper point is in Tiphareth, where the HGA resides. The point here SHOULD be obvious, but again I guess I have to spell it out. The magician is aiming his Will at Tiphareth, hoping to draw the current of his HGA to manifestation in his physical environment at Malkuth. This is Knowledge and Conversation. Tiphareth is NOT where the magician attains it, because the magician simply cannot translate his physical body into higher vibrations of energy. Reading too many UFO books, perhaps? To quote you on the vision of the Machinery of the Universe, have you actually had the experience, or are you simply quoting something you read? I know some book worshippers I think you'd get along nicely with. Put too much faith in the system, and it will fail you. Stick with what you have actually experienced. The second hexagram described has its base in Tiphareth and its topmost point in Kether. Again, the symbolism SHOULD be obvious, but here we go again. The magician has achieved Knowledge and Conversation by this point, and can, in ritual, act as his Angel and invoke his Will (being the chief difference between the Star Ruby and the LBRP, but of course you are beyond such trifles). The previous formula had Yesod at the center, just as the moon is reflective of the sun's light, so should the magician. This time, the center is Daath (knowledge), and what the magician finds there depends upon what he has encountered at Malkuth and Tiphareth, being the ego and animus respectively. The shadow is what is encountered in the Abyss, and no matter how many books you've read or how many pedantic formulas you've memorized or how high and fucking mighty you think you are, you always face it from a position of weakness, because that's what the shadow IS. You can't take your slide rule with you, or your Israel Regardie tapes, or your dogeared 777. You probably think paper money is real, too. KB> You need only consider what the Supernals mean in relation to the other KB> seven Sephiroth to realize why the Abyss is what separates them from the KB> Supernals; additionally, the usual ToL diagram is just one way of KB> looking at them. One could just as easily use concentric KB> circles/spheres, or think of them as ten spheres in ten different KB> dimensions in the same coordinates. No, you can't use concentric circles, because the sephiroth do not contain each other, nor do they supercede each other. Each is individual and distinct and relates to its neighbors in a certain way. That's why they HAVE ten of them! The alternative arrangements of the Tree of Life give additional insights on pathworkings ONLY AS LONG AS YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE SEPHIROTH ARE, NOT WHAT SOMEBODY WROTE IN A BOOK!!! Books are great, but practical knowledge, active thinking, and REAL EXPERIENCE are what books are supposed to engender, not mindless hero-worship. Are far as your question, "So what?" Read the rest of the post, a little further than you did last time, and check out the elemental attributions of a unicursal hexagram. Especially read the part on averse (not upside-down) pentagrams. It's only my own personal experience, and I've already admitted that it might only work for me, but the fact remains that it HAS worked at least for one person. If you were to put your damn books down for a minute and actually LOOK at something, you never know what you might find. Also try reading the usual stuff, De Arte Magica, Star Sapphire (especially the parts regarding the signs of Set Triumphant and Baphomet, but of course you are beyond all that), Star Ruby, Liber Tzaddi, Liber Cheth, Liber 418, 10th Aethyr, 8th Aethyr, etc etc. I mean really, if you only read something in order to shoot it full of holes, of course you won't understand in, especially if your only proof wasn't even your own personal experience, but something you've read in a book. DO what thou Wilt, not READ about what thou Wilt. Have you even TRIED performing any of the rituals? How did it feel? Did you read them line for line out of the book, or did you memorize them? Did you try alternate interpretations of ambiguities, or did you simply parrot the standardized methods of ritual? I bet that if you did a lot less bitching and a lot more actual WORK that you might actually experience something. Did my post piss you off because I actually thought for myself and said something you hadn't heard before? Continued next posting. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grey Area: Thelema To: Kevin Bold 1 May 95 23:36:46 Subject: I ain't done yet. UpdReq Or did my post piss you off because it required YOU to think for YOURself? Certainly it's easy enough to poke holes in something you read. Pedantic book-worshippers abound in this day and age, always quoting something somebody else wrote in order to prove their point. Christians do it all the time, so I guess you're in safe company. Just once I'd like to hear somebody say, "I disagree with you because I've actually DONE that and seen for myself!" Free thinkers are what's needed in the Thelemic community now, not Crowleyans. It's all too easy to follow exactly in someone else's footsteps like some sort of mindless dog, but you never get any farther than they did, and never forget how badly Crowley fucked up the Choronzon Operation. How did you do, O Mighty Enlightened Thelemic One? Try to remember (I'll say it again) that symbols are only symbols, but the way they interact with each other has a lot of meaning. It's this meaning, and not the symbols themselves, that actually teach us. If you don't understand what I just said, I'll sell you a photograph of a new car for $11,000. Deal? First it was your whining about "My pentagrams don't line up if I do that!". Now it's "But the books say THIS, THIS and THIS about the sephiroth!". Quit crying, change your goddamn diapers, and DO something. Grey 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718