From: The Nephilim Area: Thelema To: All 28 Feb 95 08:47:28 Subject: Looking for Babalonian Magick UpdReq I'm looking for decent books on Sumero-Babalonian/Assyrian magick, not translated tablets but something along the lines of "The Golden Dawn" by Regardie or... um... better, less fictional adaptations of Sumero-Akkadian magick than the Avon Necro. I'm a Pagan Ceremonial magician but the European gods don't work for me, and neither the Egyptians beyond the standard god-forms etc. I need my Mesopotamia. I've got tons of tablet translations but the task of putting them into a modern CM form is wearing me out. Shammash, Enlil, Ishtar, Enki, Anu, Nergal, Adad, Ki, Tehomot, Marduk, Resheph... If anyone knows of any modern-oriented books that deal with these, I'd be extremely appreciative if you passed the info on to me. Praise be to Ea The Nephilim THE TWILIGHT ZONE BBS [PIN]909-621-766324HRS14.4kbsVBBS6.10 FIDOnetVIRTUALWWIVWWIVlinkICEnetNUITnetALnet 1:218/50319092309916199039916BEASTnetPODS 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fra Acpv Area: Thelema To: Fir 3 Mar 95 15:03:34 Subject: MASTER OF THE TEMPLE UpdReq Re: MASTER OF TEMPLE Several other Notaqarina on INRI - "I Never Risk Inquiry" "Iron Nails Ran In" Just my two cents woth . Fra ACPV New Moon RisingVBBS 6.14(612)771-9017DirectMail=On Mn's Largest Pagan/Wiccan Support BBSSt. Paul, MN Internet, FidoNET @1:282/4039, MagickNET @1, VirtualNET @1612001 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Philip Cavanagh Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 4 Mar 95 19:12:02 Subject: 777 UpdReq > PC> I'm looking for some help in completing the 26th chart in Crowley's > PC> 777 for a friend of mine, can anyone help me out? > Twenty-sixth "chart"? You mean "column", perhaps? In my copy that's a > blank column with no subject title, intended for future addition of gods > from some pantheons Crowley didn't know. Just what are you trying to > fill it with? OOps, maybe I should of explained it a bit better... My understanding of '777' (or The Qaballah of Aleister Crowley) is that to look up, say, what is related to a person's horoscope, you would look up Table I, VII: English of Col. VI. Let's use the 26th row, Capricornus. Now, what I'm trying to figure out is: (A) The Proper Hebrew Definitions and (B) the empty spaces located in each column/table relating to the 26th row. I've heard of one person who, using 777 and The Kabbalah Unveiled, managed to figure out/complete the entire charts. Unfortunately, I don't know this person on a person level. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Philip Cavanagh Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 4 Mar 95 19:15:02 Subject: 777 UpdReq > Philip - > In my edition, Col. 25-32 are the "reserved for expansion" attributing > various deities to the Tree. What do you have as column 26 (this is > leaving aside the no doubt imminent debate on the questionable > rationale of ramming deities from systems with nothing to do with the > Qabala into the "universal filing cabinet" (g)). OK, like I mentioned, I'm looking for completing the 26th row of the charts (Sagittarius). My copy states for Col. 25-32 that there is insufficient knowledge, but wouldn't it be cool if someone actually knew what data would go into there??? I'm sure it has been done before. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Philip Cavanagh Area: Thelema To: KT 4 Mar 95 19:17:04 Subject: 777 UpdReq > I'm looking at the 26th chart. It looks pretty complete to me. > Some Greek Gods? is that the chart to which you refer? Yikes, lots of response about this... :) I was referring to the 26th row (Sagittarius) rather then the 26th column. Hope this makes sense. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Philip Cavanagh Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 4 Mar 95 19:20:04 Subject: 777 UpdReq > Hmm, you must be looking at Column 26 in the new edition of > _Magick_. I believe Philip was referring to the one in _777 & > Other Qabalistic Writings_. In that one, it's blank...marked > 'insufficient info to complete' or something like that going by memory, don't have it in front of me right now so > the quote isn't exact>. Speaking of "Magick/Book 4" I thought that Hymenaeus Beta X would of added the completed charts, unless it isn't possible to do it (and it must be). Yes, i was referring to _777 and Other Qabalalistic Writings_, rather then Magick. > How're you liking the new Book 4? I wish I could afford a copy. :/ Yes, the book is a bit pricey (I paid over $70.00 for my copy one day after Avalon Metaphysical bookstore got it in :) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 5 Mar 95 18:15:00 Subject: Book of the Archer UpdReq Thus said The Cegorach to Josh Norton concerning Book of the Archer: Hi Larry! TC> TC> Query: TC> Having read The Book of the Archer, I don't quite grok one thing: TC> You're supposed to keep tabs on events, chalk 'em up to particular TC> planets, and thus gradually build an understanding (rough summary). TC> As I'm a strong INFP, I don't imagine I'll have much trouble with TC> this, but the mathematician in me can't help but wonder how one can do TC> this with any degree of accuracy--it seems like a big case of more TC> variables than equations (thus making the equations unsolvable). TC> Or is this simply a function of intuition? I.e., does one simply say, TC> "Event X seems to jive with what I know of Planet Y", repeat the test TC> procedure a bejillion times, and then analyze based upon the data TC> cloud (again, rough, but hopefully you know what I mean). Sorta like TC> data-fitting...given a sufficient number of points, one can plot the TC> equation of the function that generated them...the more points, the TC> better your curve fits the "real" one. It's not that bad actually. The first thing to consider is that there is a specific "window" during which any transit is active. This is when the transiting planet is a) less than one degree from an aspect with the natal planet, and b) is moving _towards_ the natal planet's position in space. Thus for Luna the window is only about two hours, for Sol, Venus, and Mercury a day or less, Mars two days, Jupiter 4-5 days. The window for the outer planets can be significantly longer, ranging to several months. (Because of the differences in timing, the inner planets tend to be associated with specific occurrences in one's daily life, while the outer planets tend to signify "background" conditions that last for quite a while -- usually long-duration changes in one's perceptions and emotions.) Second, the force of a particular transit increases steadily as it approaches an exact aspect, then drops off catastrophically. A saw-tooth wave, in engineering terms. Third, the intensity (and subjective "obviousness") of a transit is somewhat related to the type of aspect involved. Aspects based on the number 1 to 4 (conjunctions, oppositions, trines, and squares) are generally the most intense and their effects the most overt in ourselves or our environment. Aspects based on numbers 5 through 8 (quintiles, sextiles, septiles, and semisquares) are more internalized, and affect your behavior more than your environment. Aspects based on numbers 9 through 12 are generally too subtle to notice until you've had lots of experience, except for the inconjunct or five-twelfths aspect. With these rules, it isn't too hard to assign a priority to the possible correlations between events and transits, and narrow them down to one or two for any given event. Beyond that, it's a matter of building up enough events involving a given planet to separate out the things they have in common. I can't tell you how to do that in any detail -- it's too subjective and dependent upon your individual character. Remember that in any transit, the natal planet represents a part of yourself being stimulated, and the transiting planet is an energy doing the stimulating. Each of these has to be distinguished in sorting out the astrological elements of the experience. TC> Also, I noted in one of the texts contained within the Enochian TC> Temples archive (the essay about divine creation, whatever its title) Hmmm. How'd that get in with the "Temples" stuff?? It wasn't intended to be part of that work. In any case, I'm going to have to dig that one out and reread it before answering. I can't remember most of what I wrote! ... And now... Number one...The larch... --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 31/11 102/943 107/946 108/155 109/235 202/311 215/9393 401/0 666/119 SEEN-BY: 1000/1 3 1100/0 2000/1 4 11 9000/2 4 6 8 10 9007/0 9008/0 9010/0 SEEN-BY: 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 9070/0 9080/0 9090/0 9100/0 9200/0 SEEN-BY: 9300/0 9400/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 2 7 9606/0 9608/0 9609/0 9610/0 SEEN-BY: 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 5 Mar 95 18:15:00 Subject: Balanced work... UpdReq Thus said Michelle Hass to Josh Norton concerning Balanced work...: Hi Michelle! >JN>There are lots of yogis, "masters", etc. around who have no trouble at JN>all entering into a transcendental state, but who can barely tie their JN>shoes without help. I suspect the behavior of these folks is a JN>consequence of jump from a relatively low level. MH> It's almost humorous, seeing this phenomenon around me. Liber AL vel MH> Legis suggests that there are three areas of development which one MH> must work within in a balanced and harmonious way: spiritual work which MH> by definition is personal and must be done on ones own (the Hermit); MH> spiritual work with shared energy (the Lover); and "practical matters" MH> of living ones life in the most effective way one can (The Man of MH> Earth). MH> [much text sacrificed to the gods of bandwidth...] MH> If you take a look at the Tarot, ascribing the minor arcana to the Man MH> of Earth, the court cards to the Lover, and the trumps to the Hermit, MH> you wind up with a ratio of 40:16:22. To me, this is an intimation of MH> just how much "weighting" one should give the three spheres in ones MH> life. You have less weight given to group work or work with another, MH> either sexual or non sexual, than you do to work on yourself. And MH> still more weight needs to be given practical considerations of MH> everyday life. Hmmm... I tend to be fairly tolerant of other people's quirks regarding the relative balance between these three spheres, being a rather quirky Hermit myself. And suspicious of "formulas" for determining how much time should be spent on one or another. We are each an individual, far too varied in our natures and goals for any such formula to be right for more than a small minority. And one should always take the long view into account; the needed balance is going to change slowly as we each evolve through the various stages of our course. Personally, I've gotten a lot of mileage out of riding out imbalances rather than trying to correct them. If your formula works for you, then use it until it stops working. But beware of overgeneralization. 'Nuff said. ;-) (I wasn't really criticizing the "can't tie his shoes" type of master, just noting it as a type with a possible origin.) ... I've got to replace the bulb in my astral projector... --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 31/11 102/943 107/946 108/155 109/235 202/311 215/9393 401/0 666/119 SEEN-BY: 1000/1 3 1100/0 2000/1 4 11 9000/2 4 6 8 10 9007/0 9008/0 9010/0 SEEN-BY: 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 9070/0 9080/0 9090/0 9100/0 9200/0 SEEN-BY: 9300/0 9400/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 2 7 9606/0 9608/0 9609/0 9610/0 SEEN-BY: 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 27 Feb 95 09:18:38 Subject: I.N.R.I. UpdReq 93! |JN > ... INRI: Isn't Norton Rex Incredible? Incipient narcissism, recognized immediately ;) BTW, I'm still collecting "authentic" traditional meanings of INRI. If you care to share them with me, please include documentation, as I need reliable information. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Thorson 27 Feb 95 09:24:56 Subject: Re: RADICAL RELIGIOUS RI UpdReq 93! |T > And the (Republican) |T > F > legislature is considering reintroducing paddling back into the |T > F > public schools. |T > |T > Thorson: |T > I've heard that some places *liked* the idea of caneing, modeled on its |T > Asian counterpart and are trying to legislate it for minor offinces. I firmly believe in corporal punishment, especially at my place after dinner and a show ;) |T > F > The tone I'm hearing from the Republicans in govt. is that they |T > F > want to put their brand of Christianity into the laws and frankly |T > F > it's making me nervous. |T > |T > Thorson: |T > Me too. What makes me nervous is that when the ACLU talks about Pat Robertson, they sound a lot like Pat Robertson talking about the ACLU. |T > But then I just heard that a substitute teacher in a Santa Fe |T > biology class tried to show a creationist video. Apparently most of the |T > students went and told the principal about her pushing her religion. She |T > is now on suspension. Good. The sanctimonious twit had it coming. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Ned 27 Feb 95 09:30:58 Subject: Radical Rhumba UpdReq 93! |N > And I thought *I* was cranky. Would you care to somehow relate this to |N > the proclaimed topic of this echo? Not that I neccesarily disagree, |N > but it would be delightful to see some deft sleight of hand. Any philosophy/religion with "Do What Thou Wilt..." as its starting premise has political overtones, and libertarian-anarchist ones at that. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Philip Cavanagh 6 Mar 95 13:40:00 Subject: 777 UpdReq Thus said Philip Cavanagh to Josh Norton concerning 777: Hi Philip! > PC> I'm looking for some help in completing the 26th chart in Crowley's > PC> 777 for a friend of mine, can anyone help me out? > Twenty-sixth "chart"? You mean "column", perhaps? In my copy that's a > blank column with no subject title, intended for future addition of gods > from some pantheons Crowley didn't know. Just what are you trying to > fill it with? PC> OOps, maybe I should of explained it a bit better... PC> My understanding of '777' (or The Qaballah of Aleister Crowley) is PC> that to look up, say, what is related to a person's horoscope, you PC> would look up Table I, VII: English of Col. VI. Let's use the 26th PC> row, Capricornus. PC> Now, what I'm trying to figure out is: (A) The Proper Hebrew PC> Definitions and (B) the empty spaces located in each column/table PC> relating to the 26th row. PC> I've heard of one person who, using 777 and The Kabbalah Unveiled, PC> managed to figure out/complete the entire charts. Unfortunately, I PC> don't know this person on a person level. Hmmm. The "rows" in _777_ are really open-ended, since by the law of correspondences there are an effectively infinite number of things that can be related to any particular core symbol. So "completion" is a rather futile endeavor. OTOH, it might be interesting to discuss some of the blank entries and what might go into them. Which ones in particular are you looking at? ... And this is the machine that goes ping! --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 31/11 102/943 107/946 108/155 109/235 202/311 215/9393 401/0 666/119 SEEN-BY: 1000/1 3 1100/0 2000/1 4 11 9000/2 4 6 8 10 9007/0 9008/0 9010/0 SEEN-BY: 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 9070/0 9080/0 9090/0 9100/0 9200/0 SEEN-BY: 9300/0 9400/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 2 7 9606/0 9608/0 9609/0 9610/0 SEEN-BY: 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 6 Mar 95 13:40:00 Subject: Conformation Cycle UpdReq Thus said The Cegorach to Josh Norton concerning Book of the Archer: TC> Also, I noted in one of the texts contained within the Enochian TC> Temples archive (the essay about divine creation, whatever its title) TC> something that sounded familiar. The section about bringing an divine TC> idea from the astral world into the material world kinda reminded me TC> of your occasional rant about Silence. TC> Am I correct in figuring the process described in the creation essay TC> is what you were talking about re: silence--i.e., the higher the plane TC> a conception remains upon, the less rigid the form it takes, and the TC> easier it is to update as necessary...isn't the process you describe TC> the same as your comment to me about commitment to a particular idea TC> or conception, and the resistance to be overcome should it need TC> updating? OK, I reread the paper quickly. A couple of points: The paper was written from the POV of an Exempt Adept and is true for all levels at or below that one. It isn't an entirely accurate representation of how things look from the higher grades. In particular, the "divine ideal" is a Chesed "mask" for the activity of the Supernal Triad. The apparent unity of the ideal dissolves into something substantially different in Binah. Other than that, the paper is a detailed presentation of things I can only get into partially in the space of a net-message. I'm still completely satisfied with what it says. You are right that what I said there is connected with my rants about the virtue of Silence. Particularly the stuff in the section titled "Destruction of old forms". I'm not sure there's much I can add to what has already been said there -- I worked hard to get all the essentials into it. One point to note from the paper is that a certain amount of concretion is actually unavoidable and necessary in every round of the cycle. What is important is to avoid things from becoming too concrete, too fixed into the form appropriate to a particular level. The practice of Silence (and the related practices of suspended judgment and contingent affirmation) keep the concretion from going too far. The attitudes mentioned in the paper ensure that the forms that do become fixed will maintain a degree of open-endedness, and won't become so identified with the person's self-concept that the "self-preservation" instincts come into play when it is time to change them again. Beyond that, you'll have to get more specific before I can comment further. ... Round up the usual suspects. --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 31/11 102/943 107/946 108/155 109/235 202/311 215/9393 401/0 666/119 SEEN-BY: 1000/1 3 1100/0 2000/1 4 11 9000/2 4 6 8 10 9007/0 9008/0 9010/0 SEEN-BY: 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 9070/0 9080/0 9090/0 9100/0 9200/0 SEEN-BY: 9300/0 9400/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 2 7 9606/0 9608/0 9609/0 9610/0 SEEN-BY: 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718