From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: FRATER HAGIOS 26 Feb 95 21:57:18 Subject: Yes UpdReq -=> FRATER HAGIOS sent a message to All on 19 Feb 95 08:13:32 <=- -=> Re: Yes <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. FH> The messages are down in number as of late. I used to receive FH> between 40 to 80 on average, now it has dropped down to about 15 to 20 FH> in the last few months. It's also my understanding that lots of stuff hasn't been making it from one coast to the other. I know lots of my messages in alt.magick go unanswered (probably just as well, given the level of 'conversation' there), and several people have asked me why I never replied to messages here (that I didn't see). Also, perhaps people are busy lately, though seems to me that more people would be huddled around the keyboard in Winter... For myself, my posts have been pretty 'lightweight' for a while, since the magical Work I've been doing, and the changes I've been going through, make it very difficult to get into heavy intellectual discussions right now -- I guess you could say I've been busier with Netzach and Tiphareth than with Hod lately. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... I turned round in terror, and behold! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Brian Dare Area: Thelema To: Fir 26 Feb 95 17:42:00 Subject: Re: SOLAR ENLIGHTENMENT Rec'd UpdReq > How would you suggest a person seek self initiation? I realized that this wasn't directed at me, but I have had some experience working with this that I thought you might benefit from. In Regardie;s _The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic_, he has an essay entitled "Self Initiation." Within that, he outlines a method wherein a minimum of two people would be necessary to initiate one another, after a period of approximately three months preparation by performing daily the LBRP and the MP. Then, he expresses that one could gain the equivelent experience found in the Elemental Grades of the G.D. (Zelator, Theoricus, Practicus, Philosopohus) by performing effectively and repeatedly the Opening by Watchtower which he outlines in his book _Ceremonial Magic_. You might want to check these two sources for yourself. It is sad that so many are interested in self initiation, and wish to remain free from organizational entanglements, and that so few draw attention to those pointers for self initiation that are already in print. In LVX, BD --- * SLMR 2.1a * 667 - The Number of the Neighbor of the Beast 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Farrell Mcgovern Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 28 Nov 94 22:59:54 Subject: Crowley on cdrom? UpdReq MSGID: 93:9631/523.0 2edaa710 REPLY: 1:107/946.0 ecf5b75a TI> Michelle Hass wrote in a message to Tony Iannotti: MH> So it's going to happen? JOY!!! I gotta get my upgrade now! MH> 386 or 486 DX motherboard, 8Meg Ram, CD Rom drive, SVGA MH> monitor and card....please Goddess please Goddess please MH> please please!!!!! TI> It's basically inevitable, and has been, it's just TI> that now it's affordable. If nobody official does it, I will in 95. I would propose that it be done in HTML, or the Hyper Text Markup Language, a specialized version of SGML (Standard Generalized Markup Language). HTML is what World Wide Web uses. And it is royalty free to use! I expect in the next 6 months to become an "expert" in HTML..or more exactly, I have to become an expert for my job. I can tentativly volenteer to either do, or help in the coding of putting stuff into HTML...and HTML supports audio, graphics and video, as well as hyperlinks to other documents locally, or anywhere on Internet, if hooked up to the World Wide Web. There are browsers for virutally all computers...x-windows, MS-Windoze, Mac, DOS/Unix/VAX charactor mode (who don't see the graphics...). I write multi-media apps for Touch Communications. One of the apps I wrote for BC-Film, they took out a 3/4 page ad in Variety to advertise. So I hope I have some idea of multi-media developing. ttyl Farrell Development Engineer Touch Communications. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: All 29 Nov 94 15:09:54 Subject: Crowley cult? UpdReq MSGID: 93:9000/2.0 2edb8a5e I recently read a book that achieved so much popularity from Fundamentalists that it had to be reprinted and updated. It was titled the New book of cults or something like that. Anyway, It had an interesting section that complained about the usual Crowley misconceptions and some truths, but what I found amazing was the errors section they provided. The error section is a place where the author (nameless, because I forgot) used quips and quotes from the Bible to support the destruction/avoidance of the cult in question. I was in the book store as I perused this and decided to compare this man's supposed claim. It delt with 1 Timothy 4:1-3 or 4. It said something about being misleaded by demons and a leader with no conscience in his book, but when I glanced at a few different editions of the Bible, I found these passages to be quite different from the paraphrase that this author gave. It was a warning against following those that will deny you full satisfaction of all of God's gifts. Those that say fast and avoid the pleasures of life. Interesting how the words can be misconstrued by such an "authority" as this author. I know this post is a bit awkward, but I am working from a disenchanted memory. Perhaps I will find his name next time I go to the local book shop and post it so all can have a laugh. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Fir 29 Nov 94 15:17:56 Subject: Solar enlightenment Rec'd UpdReq MSGID: 93:9000/2.0 2edb8c6e REPLY: 31:1000/3.0 2ed8fd7e F> Have you seen any correlation in your solitary work and F> initiations where you might say that once started on the path F> one should continue until they reach at least a certain station? Sorry to butt in, but I have a feeling according to my initiation that it is not something that I attempt, but something that comes to me when the time is right, perhaps guided by my HGA. When I look back I can see forces pushing me in particular directions and getting me ready for the next steps, and I find it exceedingly interesting to ponder for about 5 minutes. I think the process should continue on indefinately, but at times, certain people will not find it in accord with there true will to pass on to a different stage of initiation. As I said, with me it just occured when the time was right (being solitary, there was no elaborate ritual, but it did follow the process that Josh outlined in his earlier post.) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 29 Nov 94 15:23:56 Subject: Oto UpdReq MSGID: 93:9000/2.0 2edb8db6 REPLY: 31:1000/3.0 2eda6ca0 Is there any reason why the office of XI* was shut down? It seems a mystery to me. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Searcher Area: Thelema To: All 28 Feb 95 00:22:04 Subject: Radical Rhumba UpdReq From: searcher@brewich.com (Searcher) Newsgroups: pod.thelema Subject: Radical Rhumba Ned@f8.n9000.z93.fidonet.org (Ned) writes: > JB> The best long term solution. > JB> Make the US dollar fully convertible with gold at the rate of > JB> $10^10 dollars per ounce of Gold. > JB> Demand that all outstanding debt to the US be paid now. > JB> Reduce american foreign aid to ZERO Dollars worldwide. > JB> Pull the USA out of the UN, the World Bank, NATO, SEATo, GATT > JB> & NAFTA. I guess thats on topic. It would take a supreme magician to pull that off :) ------------------ searcher@brewich.com (Searcher) Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350 3 lines 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 27 Feb 95 17:24:38 Subject: Backlog UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Dropped by Bapho today, and found some stuff I hadn't seen... RD> Hello? Jello! Are you jacked back in yet? We were 'cut off' from RD> echo traffic for a while too, but it's moving again. Uhm...I'm RD> drawing a complete blank on saying anything even slightly topical, RD> so I guess I'll just say: Guess we weren't! RD> How come they did the flip-flop with Column numbers anyway? Column RD> 26 in _777 & Other QBL Writings_ was one of several blank ones to RD> fill in your own self, and the new _Magick_ has Column 26 listed as RD> 'Some Greek Gods.' I foresee possible confusion in the future! Uh... "It's a mystery." };-> I dunno, haven't gotten to that page yet. Lessee... Yup, you're right. How should I know? You're the IIo, you tell me! RD> Oh--and while I have you here , do you know if anything's been RD> written anywhere about the O.T.O. degrees/chakras associations in RD> the Equinox III:10 as far as why's and wherefore's? I think it has something to do with the initiations? Again, I don't know. Haven't seen anything other than what's in III:10. RD> Bummer fer-sher! I hope she can get the time off. Yay! She's got that weekend off, so we're cool. (Real cool, the furnace is messed up and the part won't be here until tomorrow. There's a quick $750. Ah, the joys of being a homeowner.) RD> You still invoking like a big dawg in preparation? Yup. Finished my pentagrams, started on hexes. Nothing succeeds like success, they say, and it's amazing how even stuff that seems irrelevant or outdated can be so effective. I did a whole week of SIRP of Fire, only to find out the very last day that I had been using the "wrong" god-name. I did notice that the response had been pretty weak, but had put it down to the Bronchitis. "How can it make any difference," I thought; "and who's to say that Mathers and Co. had it "right" anyway?!" BUT, I tried it again with the "right" name, and POW! the response was an order of magnitude greater. Guess them old timers knew what they was doing after all! Another case in point: I've never liked the standard GD hex ritual -- all that outmoded Osiris-dead-or-alive junk. Even Uncle Al said: Before what is known as the Equinox of the Gods a little while ago, there was an initiated Formula which expressed these Ideas to the Wise. As these Formulas are done with, it is of no consequence if I reveal them. ...and proceeded to give the GD Hexagram ritual. But there's no arguing with the results of a good LBRP-LIRH, even if it _is_ AH 90! So, I'll stick to the "lesson-plan." When I've done all these, I'll start back up with SR, SS, Phoenix and Reguli. RD> So far it's been...interesting! We'll call you after the 18th and swap stories! Love is the law, love under will. - Vitriol > How's the schooling going? Can I send mine out to you? Going ace. :> We just had another meet with the homestudy lady, & Tam's still at or above grade level in everything. Her first article as a music critic for the Reader came out last week, and I'm terribly proud. She did a great job! It's netted her--are you ready?--a Press Pass to the Danzig show here on March 26th. I'm jealous! Thrilled to be going though. Y'all doing anything interesting for the Holy Daze? It'd be bitchin if you and the family could come out *this* way for a visit. I'd be happy to donate floor space. ;> Love is the law, love under will. -!- TBBS v2.1/NM ! Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-line/ (619) 447-5010 (1:202/311) ... I waited patiently, and Thou wast with me from the beginning. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 28 Feb 95 13:14:16 Subject: Re: 777 UpdReq -=> Rose Dawn sent a message to Christeos Pir on 26 Feb 95 03:24:51 <=- -=> Re: Re: 777 <=- Ooops.. they did make it here after all. Just as well, since I messed up my reply. RD> Going ace. :> We just had another meet with the homestudy lady, & RD> Tam's still at or above grade level in everything. Her first article RD> as a music critic for the Reader came out last week, and I'm RD> terribly proud. She did a great job! It's netted her--are you RD> ready?--a Press Pass to the Danzig show here on March 26th. I'm RD> jealous! Thrilled to be going though. Well done. Jaz is still suffering through the lame-ass science "teacher," and an asshole bus driver as well. Jaz got reprimanded for saying something to the driver for driving unsafely. I'm getting ready to write nasty letters to the transportation director and the school. I think I'll tell the Assistant Principal that if anything happens, I'm naming him as co-defendant. RD> Y'all doing anything interesting for the Holy Daze? It'd be bitchin if RD> you and the family could come out *this* way for a visit. I'd be happy RD> to donate floor space. ;> Not bloody likely, I'm afraid. As I said elsewhere, $750 for the furnace and another $120 in dues/fees next month pretty much ensures that we'll be paying January's bills in July. Anyway, you were supposed to meet us in N'Awlins a while back, remember? Love is the law, love under will. - V - ... They that ever desired Thee shall obtain Thee, even at the End 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 28 Feb 95 13:15:52 Subject: Astrological symbolism UpdReq -=> The Cegorach sent a message to Josh Norton on 27 Feb 95 03:57:03 <=- -=> Re: Astrological symbolism <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. TC> To clarify: I've been reading some of your various electronic stuff TC> lately (Enochian Temples and other such), and a) don't really grok the TC> astrological references right off the bat, b) don't want to wade TC> through volumes and volumes of Alice Goodman's Love Signs trying to TC> figure out what some reference to Scorpio means. :) Not to mention Linda Bailey's Theosophical works! };-> Love is the law, love under will. - V - ... in the peace that is mother of war, 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: The Cegorach 28 Feb 95 20:09:00 Subject: Astrological Symbolism UpdReq Thus said The Cegorach to Josh Norton concerning Astrological symbolism: TC> TC> TC> Hiya, Josh! Hi Larry! Haven't heard from you in a while. Still running your BBS? TC> I've probably asked you this twice before, but I'm looking for some TC> decent pointers regarding astrological symbolism, and how to get TC> started in understanding it. TC> To clarify: I've been reading some of your various electronic stuff TC> lately (Enochian Temples and other such), and a) don't really grok the TC> astrological references right off the bat, b) don't want to wade TC> through volumes and volumes of Alice Goodman's Love Signs trying to TC> figure out what some reference to Scorpio means. :) Understandable. Hmmm.... The problem with astrology books is that every astrologer seems to have his or her special axe to grind, and twists things around to fit the point they want to make. Currently most of them seem obsessed with fitting astrology to one or another psychological theory, blinding you in a blizzard of buzzwords. I like to think of myself as an exception, but maybe not... ;-) The best way to understand the astrological "powers" is by direct experience of their effects on your own consciousness. I described one way of doing this in the article titled "The Book of the Archer". This method is slow, but exceedingly thorough in its results. If you want something to sink your mental teeth into, I would recommend the works of the late Dane Rudhyar. Dane was one of the few modern astrologers who deliberately concerned himself with the mystico-magickal aspects of the symbols, and their relationships to human experience. His works are detailed, articulate, and arise from a core viewpoint not too far from my own. A partial listing of his works: The Sun is Also a Star An Astrological Mandala Astrology and the Modern Psyche The Astrological Houses An Astrological Study of Psychological Complexes Fire Out of the Stone From Humanistic to Transpersonal Astrology The Lunation Cycle New Mansions for New Men The Planetarization of Consciousness The Practice of Astrology The Pulse of Life Triptych There are many others I've forgotten. I've read all of the above books at one time or another, and found them useful. He's particularly good at dealing with the cyclic aspects of the symbols. ... I wouldn't serve any god who would have me for a worshiper. --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 # Origin: Access! Information Services (666:56/155) * Origin: 3*6Net <-> ALnet EchoGate! (31:1000/1.0) SEEN-BY: 31/11 107/946 109/235 202/311 215/9393 401/0 666/119 1000/1 3 1100/0 SEEN-BY: 2000/1 4 11 9400/0 9430/0 9600/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Fir 28 Feb 95 20:09:00 Subject: Master Of Temple Rec'd UpdReq Thus said Fir to Josh Norton concerning Re: MASTER OF TEMPLE: Fi> Hi Josh! Hello! JN> And at what point in the process do they JN> think the grades become unattainable by incarnate beings? JN> At the so-called "Abyss", Fi> He definitely doesn't believe that crossing the Abyss is possible in Fi> his tradition although he states that Crowley uses the unicursal Fi> hexagram for crossing the abyss. Hmmm....Something self-contradictory about that. Well, if he doesn't believe it's possible, it probably won't happen to him. His loss. Fi> Could someone explain what the correlaton is between the unicursal Fi> hexagram and crossing the abyss? Darned if I know. I don't recall A.C. ever saying anything like that. Fi> He suggests that to claim himself one grade would be equivalent Fi> to saying he exists at the level of a choir of angels, and to claim Fi> another grade would be saying that he creates like the archangels. So, what's wrong with that? Is he saying that the choir of, say, Malkuth, is inherently superior to himself? (Incidentally, angels aren't creative beings. Even by Xtian tradition, they don't do anything of their own power, but only through that portion of the power of god which they minister. They are divine hod-carriers and bricklayers, not architects. OTOH, humans ARE creative beings -- "made in God's image". An angel who becomes creative becomes functionally human, and ceases to be an angel.) I find this attitude pretty bizarre. Sort of like Robert Heinlein's satirical heaven, in which angels sit at the front of the bus, saints get the middle seats, and the rest of us folk have to sit in the back. I'm all for not taking yourself seriously, but that's going beyond humility into self-degradation. JN> I suspect JN> awareness is itself one of the transcendental aspects of existence JN> -- possibly that related to Chokmah. Fi> Fi> I think I know what you mean by 'awareness' but can you elaborate? Duuhhh.... This is one of those things I'm not yet able to bring down into words. If it is connected with Chokmah, it's above my grade at the moment. To put it vaguely, awareness -- registration of impressions -- doesn't require a self to exist. And at some point "above" the "abyss", the spark of awareness that exists in this fellow Josh loses any characteristics, and becomes indistinguishable from any other spark of awareness. And (I speculate) can flow into, and combine seamlessly with, any other awareness. JN> In any case, once it gets over its habitual states of restriction, JN> it is perfectly capable of perceiving on JN> any level of the Tree of Life, even while continuing to operation JN> through a body. Fi> Fi> But where does this fit into the idea that everyone will have a Fi> natural grade that they can attain to in a given life? It's a matter of rules-inside-the-game versus rules-outside-the-game. The process of getting over habitual restrictions (usually) takes many incarnations, and that process follows the game-rules of the finite world. I.e., each incarnation recapitulates past achievements in an abbreviated form before continuing with the current place in the process. Theoretically, one can jump directly from any finite level to the transcendental levels. This is a basic principle of Zen and Cha'n Buddhism, and I personally agree with it. But if you do so, the finite portions of your being that you haven't yet dealt with consciously remain in the undeveloped state. This limits how much of your enlightenment you can bring back down into the finite worlds. Not a problem if all you are concerned with is escaping from the world, but if you intend to get involved in the ongoing creative process of the Great Work, then developing all those intermediate levels is a necessity. There are lots of yogis, "masters", etc. around who have no trouble at all entering into a transcendental state, but who can barely tie their shoes without help. I suspect the behavior of these folks is a consequence of jump from a relatively low level. ... I'm not insensitive, I'm male. See the difference? --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 # Origin: Access! Information Services (666:56/155) * Origin: 3*6Net <-> ALnet EchoGate! (31:1000/1.0) SEEN-BY: 31/11 107/946 109/235 202/311 215/9393 401/0 666/119 1000/1 3 1100/0 SEEN-BY: 2000/1 4 11 9400/0 9430/0 9600/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718