From: Dave Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 20 Feb 95 13:53:16 Subject: RE: Master Of Temple UpdReq JN> information. But it seems to me that they've become caught in the same JN> damned idiotic dualism that has plagued most Western religions and JN> systems of initiation. That is, that there is a "gap" of some sort JN> between spirit and matter, and that at some point you have to "jump JN> over" or "bridge" that gap in order to achieve further initiations. Your JN> As I've said before -- too many times, some would say -- no such gap JN> exists. Every level of finite existence is equally and JN> undiscriminatingly connected to the enclosing transcendental aspect. And JN> all of them, from the transcendant perspective, are equally "spiritual" JN> in nature. The apparent polarity between spirit and matter is an I've thought a lot about this myself. I quote AC on the Empress card (from the Book of Thoth of course...): In general terms, the meaning may be suggested by identifying the pelican herself with the Great Mother and her offspring with the Daughter in the formula of Tetragrammaton. It is because the daughter *is* the daughter of her mother that she can be raised to her throne. In other language, there is a continuity of life, an inheritance of blood, which binds all forms of Nature together. There is no break between light and darkness. Natura non facit saltum ("Nature makes no leap"). If these considerations were fully understood, it would becom possible to reconcile the Quantum theory with the Electro-magnetic equations. Unfortunately since I presently have little business on planes such as these, I don't have much to add. Other than on a good night, when everything went well, I don't recall there being any gaps. There's also the analogy from AC (or was it Fuller?) about the pendulum: the farther one moves towards the center, the less movement. No gaps there either. Pax, db 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Thelema To: Fir 17 Feb 95 23:56:00 Subject: Hello Again! UpdReq pondering upon the musings of FIR FI> > Cliffs Notes for _MiT&P_??? If not... could anybody sorta give FI> > me some specific things to look for/be aware of when reading it? FI> I've heard that Bill Heidrick's notes on MTP are pretty good. FI> I haven't seen them yet myself. A certain un-named Camp master I thought you swiped a copy from the turtle shell. I grabbed my ascii copy from Kathedral Mumbo Jumbo, I think. & its ok, if you have somebody around to explain the gaps in it. xan * OLX 2.1 TD * In the White House in 96: Harry Browne --- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Thelema To: Kevin Bold 18 Feb 95 00:07:00 Subject: Newt Gingrich UpdReq pondering on the musings of KEVIN BOLD KB>MH> Now there's another date for the "feast days of Thelema" calendar...the KB>MH> Greater Feast of St. Norton I, Rex et Imperator! When did Emperor Norton I die? WHen was he born? KB>MH> tyrant like Newt Gingrich or a simpleton like Bill Clinton. KB>I had the interesting pleasure of hearing Newt Gingrich live and in person at Interesting, maybe. He's the only person I have heard refute his own argument as to why to do something, and then claim otherwise. KB>certainly do part company with him on some issues, I think Congress needs KB>more forward-looking history teachers (Gingrich's original profession) and a KB>lot fewer socialist lawyers. I agree with you on that score. Now does anybody know where we can find a historian, that actually studied history --- Neither Newt, nor the college he was at knew the subject. Kissinger comes to mind, but he didn't train to be a historian. xan * OLX 2.1 TD * Move your vowels daily or you will get consonated. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Thelema To: Tim Maroney 18 Feb 95 00:18:02 Subject: Three Ways To Study Thele UpdReq pondering on the musings of TIM MARONEY A post from timbo that doesn't have a flame! or is this a pretender I see before me? TM>it all sorts of supernatural and transcendent attributes which it may or may TM>not possess. I believe in Crowley -- that is, there was such a person and he TM>wrote a number of authenticated works -- but the jury is still out (way, way TM>out) on the reality of Aiwass, the succession of the aeons, the psychological TM>accuracy of the Tree of Life, the meaningfulness of numerology, the accuracy TM>of astrology, the truth of past-life memories, the ethical ascendancy of "do TM>what thou wilt", and all the other fun little notions that 95% of O.T.O. TM>members seem to take as unquestioned assumptions! replace "unquestioned assumptions" with "the gospel truth", would be more accurate. I just view that as part of the trend of the OTO towards Thelemic Fundamentalism --- although most of the people that tend towards that, wouldn't dare actually practice it, because of various laws that proscribe against it. TM>the groups founded around Thelemism. Crowleyanity is the worship of a man; TM>Thelemism is the worship of a system; the third approach is rational and TM>balanced study of the work of the man. The third approach is also the one he advocated, in his writings. xan * OLX 2.1 TD * Harry Brown for President: 1996 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Thelema To: Fir 21 Feb 95 16:37:04 Subject: Radical Religious Right UpdReq pondering upon the musings of FIR FI> Perhaps it's the hoopla about the new Surgeon General candidate FI> that's prompted me to interrupt your's and Michelle's conversation. Can anybody really expect that a government that won't allow a person to protect him/herself when assaulted, is going to be that concerned about letting a person decide whether or not to have an abortion? FI> Up here in Washington state, one of the public grade schools is FI> going to start requiring the kids to wear uniforms, patterned The usa is one of the few --- if only country, where schools do not have mandatory uniforms. OTOH, schools here do have pseudo-uniforms --- look at all the jackets with sports teams emblazoned upon them. FI> The tone I'm hearing from the Republicans in govt. is that they FI> want to put their brand of Christianity into the laws and frankly The nicest thing i can say about Newt's looters, is that their intentions are good. Its just that they have not bothered studying history. . Odd that, you'd expect a ex- history professor to know his subject. Pity that he doesn't -- but then the history department at the college he taught at, didn't' know the subject either. / xan * OLX 2.1 TD * Newt: a small semi-aquatic slamander. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: KT Area: Thelema To: Philip Cavanagh 21 Feb 95 05:54:00 Subject: Re: 777 UpdReq -=> Quoting Philip Cavanagh to All <=- PC> I didn't know quite where to post this question, so if I'm PC> "off-topic" please inform me of... PC> I'm looking for some help in completing the 26th chart in Crowley's PC> 777 for a friend of mine, can anyone help me out? PC> -!- FMail/386 0.98 PC> ! Origin: Euphoria InfoServ ][ - (604) 361-3514 - Victoria, B.C. PC> (93:9660/3) I'm looking at the 26th chart. It looks pretty complete to me. Some Greek Gods? is that the chart to which you refer? ... Relax, it's only a bullet. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 20 Feb 95 10:07:02 Subject: Radical Religious Rig 1/2 UpdReq pondering upon the musings of MICHELLE HASS MH>So is the current system, where if you aren't working at a company which MH>provides health insurance you might end up dying of a preventable Pray tell me what an insurance company does, other than add 80% to the cost of medical treatment? & explain why a hospital cannot -- indeed refuses to -- give a quote over the phone any medical procedure. Call every hospital in your area, and ask what the cost for treatment of a medical procedure -- pick one, any one. If 1 in a hundred hospitals can quote you a figure, without humming and hawing around, I'd be surprised. If 1 in fifty quotes you any figure, I'll be amazed. MH>Ask somebody from Canada sometime: having a flawed National Health is a MH>lot better than not having it. You might have to wait to get a So maybe you'd like to explain why the Premier of Quebec goes to the US for his health treatment? Or why 25% of the heart patients in British Columbia have their treatment in the US? Or why Canadians with money have their primary care physician in the US? MH>KB>no problem with _legal_ immigrants; Prop. 187 was directed MH>KB>at _illegal_ immigrants. Whilst Proposition 187 was directed at illegal immigrants, its primary effect is to increase racial tensions. Does anybody hear else hear "apartheid" when the effects of proposition 187 are discussed? MH>Kinderlift. She is a naturalized citizen of the United States of MH>America. For most of her life she worked for her keep, paying into the MH>Social Security system. If this law passes, her SSI disability payments MH>would be history, and she would be unable to collect Medicare at 65. #1: SSI is an insurance fraud, through and through. #2: Providing SSI is not a legitimate function of government. MH>But the California Prop. 187 will >not< stop illegal immigration. People It isn't supposed to stop illegal immigration. It is supposed to increase the amount of power of the government, and increase the number of slaves. MH>Finding a scapegoat rather than looking at difficult solutions is a MH>classic way that people react in times of crisis. It's the wrong way to true. MH>1.) Streamline the procedures for naturalization of citizens. Make it MH>possible for more, not less, immigrants to go through the system and Streamline the procedure for legal immigration --- basically, let anybody who wanted to emigrate here pay $100.00 and let them in. That one fact would do far more to decrease illegal immigration, than anything else. I wonder how much anti-illegal immigration sentiment there would be, if Ireland still was the leading country of origin of illegal immigrants? << Think back to 1985, for a hint --- that was the year that Ireland became #2. >> MH>2.) Deploy US TROOPS at both the Mexican and Canadian border. Every MH>other country in both the developed and undeveloped world uses regular MH>army troops to guard their borders. The Mexican border would be Priority MH>One, of course. Sorry, I don't remember seeing troops at the border between Swaziland and Mocambique. Or between Rhodesia and Mocambique --- albeit that was in the sixties. Nor were their any troops at the South Africa/South West Africa Border, in 1975. OTOH, the difference between regular troops, and Anglo- American's security forces is in who cuts the paycheck. MH>3.) Make US aid to prop up the Mexican economy during the current Peso crisis contingent on Mexico beefing up >their< Border enforcement. That will just aggravate the situation there. The best long term solution. Make the US dollar fully convertible with gold at the rate of $10^10 dollars per ounce of Gold. Demand that all outstanding debt to the US be paid now. Reduce american foreign aid to ZERO Dollars worldwide. Pull the USA out of the UN, the World Bank, NATO, SEATo, GATT & NAFTA. Let the rest of the world die in the resulting financial blood bath. MH>4.) Devise a personal ID that is tamperproof, and use existing laws to MH>crack down on ID forgeries. Laser data storage technologies used I assume that you are aware of the implications of what this proposal does. I also assume that you are willing to live with those consequences. Now maybe you can explain to me just why a legitimate government, carrying out legitimate governmental functions, needs to incorporate non-legitimate governmental functions into its existence. Actually, I shouldn't object to that card --- it would make it a whole lot easier for me to find out where you, or anybody else is. And would be as easy, or easier to obtain that anything else about you i can currently obtain, regardless of what the law said the status of that information would be. << & if you think that the information on that card won't be freely available, you have a lot more faith in government and its employees than i have. OTOH, you just might not be familiar with the going rate of your tax returns for the last five years --- $2 000, or your phone bill for the last year --- 6 months for $400, less with a quantity discount. Prison records --- $30 per state. >> MH>information. EPROM chips would also be a good alternative to add to a MH>theoretical ID. Do you know how easy that would be to crack? Or how easy it would be to duplicate. I'd say Chairman Mao would do it, except he's dead, and his followers don't have his capacity to "lead". MH>But denying health care? That would be slitting our own >>> Continued to next message * OLX 2.1 TD * New lemon Scented Tagline. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 20 Feb 95 10:07:04 Subject: Radical Religious Rig 2/2 UpdReq >>> Continued from previous message Providing health care is not a legitimate function of government. MH>challenges and is enforced. Since you too live in Los Angeles, I suggest MH>you get a TB test regularly if you can. I know I will. I assume that you are aware that TB Tests are not accurate. Depending upon which one you take, you either have an unacceptably high chance of having a false positive, or an equally unacceptable chance of having a false negative. xan * OLX 2.1 TD * New lemon Scented Tagline. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718