From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 14 Nov 94 09:17:22 Subject: Re: THE ABYSS UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Believe it or not, I just noticed that the Subject was 'The Abyss.' Did a bit of pondering after reading a couple of To Meta Thereon 's recent posts about Abyss crossing and initiation processing, and remembered the adage about the influence of Binah travelling all the way up, down, and sideways through the Tree. Certainly seems to be the case for many/most of us who are still All Too Human. The despair *and* the exhaltation are there, and they'll be there again...and again, and again. My humble opinion tends toward an 'Abyss' at every step along the way in an individual's initiation. In my experience, it hasn't been something lying in wait until one is ready to become a Master of the Temple...there are many 'mini Dark Nights of the Soul' and at each encounter, it seems that there's a real, finite, and ominous 'choice' involved...am I gonna go on, try to turn back, descend into very NON-Divine insanity, or blow my brains all over the wall, etc., ad infenitem, ad nauseum. I don't think people tend to pay *enough* mind to the assertion that the 'first step along the path' is the most important...I think not only is it the most important, but also the most difficult, and the ultimate 'turning point' in one's life as well. I thought I was a pretty 'balanced' individual and fairly well experienced with a variety of things, and a few months back, finding out that this was not necessarily so, was simply a flat BITCH. And once things finally get a bit 'smoothed out' the next step in one's initiatory journey is waiting just around the corner, with yet more unpleasant stuff forced to the surface to be dealt with. I can really *feel* the nature of my own inits as 'Force and Fire'...everything, EVERYthing!! that needs to be dealt with in detail and at length is 'Forced' up front and center, and the Fire is there to 'burn it away', but without a lot of work, a lot of pain, and a lot of careful attention, it's just as ready to burn your heart, mind, and spirit, leaving a 'pile of ashes' with *nothing* to rise therefrom. It's a real comfort that this sort of thing comes in steps in one way, but a pretty sobering shock to realize that there is *so* much more waiting around every corner...an adventure in the purest sense of the word, the sense that implies peril and real danger, as well as *real* accomplishment. I don't think the 'Black Brothers' are waiting way down the road for the time when one may be ready to 'cross the Abyss' and emerge as a Magister Templi. I think 'they' are right here inside me, and the perils of the Abyss and the joys of safe crossing are myriad and greet us at every small step forward along the way. I could be a 'Black Brother' or a crazy person shrieking on a street corner annoying passers-by, or a hopeless shell of a person slamming junk in a dope house, or an 'armchair magician' spinning weird tales about what might have been right this second; it's *not* something that waits patiently till I've had enough 'experience' and gained enough 'balance' to face up to bravely and easily. I also believe, trite as it sounds, that if you ain't scared, you ain't brave. Being a Master of the Temple doesn't concern me at the moment...but being a Master of one very small part of mySelf that I haven't previously encountered or dealt with in its entirety is a real damned ACCOMPLISHMENT. I don't know if it gets easier with time and experience, but I do know that I can look *some* parts of myself in the eyes without screaming off into the night, and come out the other side of a few 'mini-abysses' and again say without dishonesty that the sorrows are but as shadows, they pass and are done, but there is THAT which remains. And gets integrated, and gives just a bit of added solidity for the mini-abysses lurking just round the corner. And boy, haven't I typed your eye off this morning! ;> > No shit! I usually think of it as a time of "miserable > exaltation". Not being as exhalted as you , for me it's been more like times of utter despair and complete hopelessness, tempered by plain damn stubbornness, and the unwillingness to lie down and go to sleep in the snow that's been my sole saving grace as long as I can remember. Maybe aspiring magicians don't need to be brave and wise; they simply need to be onery enuff to keep putting one foot in front of the other even when there doesn't seem to be any reason why any sane person would *want* to! ;> Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: MICHAEL AQUINO 10 Nov 94 08:58:00 Subject: RE: SYNTHESIS AND EXPOSIT UpdReq Kd> I firmly believe that ALL priesthood should be Initiate in Kd> that sense, and very much prefer that they be initiate in Kd> the other sense besides. DH> Do you mean they should be a formal initiate of some (i.e. any) DH> tradition? I mean they *must* be capable of falling into full rapport, a.k.a. agape', with their Gods pretty much at will and *should* be capable of leading others to the same state. The former is what I 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zeekram Area: Thelema To: All 13 Nov 94 14:49:00 Subject: Book of the coming forth UpdReq Exactly, what IS the Book Of Coming Forth? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Walter Five Area: Thelema To: All 14 Nov 94 21:15:08 Subject: Round up the usual suspects! UpdReq From: walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Newsgroups: pod.thelema Subject: Round up the usual suspects! Christeos.Pir@f3.n1000.z31.fidonet.org (Christeos Pir) writes: > Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > > It never ceases to amaze me how people can print any damn thing and no > one calls them on it. Witness the following, from the Chambers > Encyclopedia Guide to The Occult, by Andre Nataf. > > ************************************************************************** > > CROWLEY, Aleister > 1875-1947 > > An abortive quest for supernatural powers. > > From poetry to sexual magic, by way of drugs, Crowley spent his life in > a fruitless search for supernatural powers. > > Born into an upper middle-class puritan family, Crowley first became > interested in the occult while an undergraduate at Cambridge. Always a > controversial figure, the press first took him to taks for his advocacy > of eroticism in his _White Stains_. By way of reply, he gave a lecture > in his mistress's home on "sexual poverty in Britain." He then joined > the Order of the Golden Dawn, a secret society of which the poet W. B. > Yeats and Bram Stoker, the author of _Dracula_, were also members. > Crowley became the society's grand master and formed a homosexual > partnership with Allan Bennett, known as Iohi Aour, another of its > members. The two of them abandoned themselves to magic and Crowley > declared his wish to become a "saint of Satan" and to be known as the > "Great Beast" or "the wickedest man alive." > > In 1900, Crowley was expelled from the Order of the Golden Dawn for > extreme practices. He founded his own order, the Silver Star, and set > out to travel the world. Crowley settled for a several years in Sicily > with a group of disciples, but rumours of drugs, orgies and even > sacrifices led to his expulsion from Italy. His travels also took him > to Ceylon, where he met up again with Bennett, who had become a > Buddhist monk, and to Madras where he was initiated into Tantrism. In > Paris, he met Rodin, Rilke, Somerset Maugham and finally Rose Edith > Kelley, his 'scarlet woman' whom he was to marry. It was in Cairo that > a medium in a trance revealed the 'ultimate mysteries' of sexual magic > to the young couple and urged them to set up the order of the Silver > Star. > > Rose died an alcoholic, leaving a daughter called Night my Athatour > Hecate Sappho Jezabel Lilith, who was to die in tragic circumstances. > Crowley, who lived for some time at Boleskine, on the shores of Loch > Ness, continued to travel, surrounded by women. With Victor Neuberg, he > journeyed into the Algerian desert to meet the spirit of evil. The two > men were later found half-dead with exhaustion. Crowley finally came to > believe he was a vampire, began to inject heroin, and adopted a wildly > promiscuous lifestyle. When war broke out, he offered Churchill an > infallible magic method to acheive victory. Churchill declined the > offer! > > ************************************************************************* > > Whaddaya think, folks: shall we have a contest to see who can find the > most errors, mis-statements, and outright lies in this gem? I'm just amazed they didn't mention Crowley reanimating Amelia Erhart's decaptitated head for Gen. Hirohoto, as detailed in Forbidden Knowledge Comics #2! (or was is Occult Laffs #1?) One of the Undergrounds, at any rate...supposed to have happened after her "mysterious disappearance" in the late '30's or very early '40's....this one is *so* Bizzare, I laugh every time I think about it.... Blessed Beast! Walter Five ------------------ walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350 3 lines 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Walter Five Area: Thelema To: All 14 Nov 94 21:22:58 Subject: SYNTHESIS AND EXPOSIT UpdReq From: walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Newsgroups: pod.thelema Subject: SYNTHESIS AND EXPOSIT Wild.Hunter@f203.n128.z1.fidonet.org (Wild Hunter) writes: > Heilsa, Michael Aquino! > > 08 Nov 94 07:51, Michael Aquino wrote to Joseph Max: > > MA> The peasants are revolting! > > This always reminds me of a very old Wizard of Id cartoon. The King is > gazing out of a castle window when a courtier runs up and yells to him; "Sire > Sire! The peasants are revolting!" The King looks at him and deadpans "So > what else is new." My Fave is the reply to this in History of the World Part One, where Mel Brooks says "Are you Kidding?!?! They STINK on ICE! Blessed Beast! Walter five ------------------ walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350 3 lines 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Walter Five Area: Thelema To: All 14 Nov 94 21:24:52 Subject: Initiation UpdReq From: walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Newsgroups: pod.thelema Subject: Initiation Andrew.Haigh@f880.n153.z1.fidonet.org (Andrew Haigh) writes: > AH> And more importantly Why did they keep > AH> it secret for so long? > AH> > TMT> Perhaps my biggest question in this vein is how can > TMT> so many people ignore spirituality and magick when it > TMT> is so simple? Read the fantasy books and you see > > We are trained to ignore this aspect of our beings by our > parents, school, society, In some ways it is really annoying > that Cartesian dualism ever reared its ugly head. We are not > mind and body but rather bodymind instead. > > TMT> True, very true. The Magickal Revival that Grant wrote about is > TMT> definately occuring even as we speak. Have you read > TMT> Hecate's Garden by any chance, I hear that it's about > TMT> the works of his Typhonian Lodge, and the thought > TMT> just hit me that he may have used his lodge to spur > TMT> people into magickal realizations. > > Hmm... never read it, never seen it. Have to look for it now > though. > Well, I bought it :-( Waited for its publication for years, and Boy! Was I Disappointed! At $35 plus P&H it's criminal! Very confused, very wandering, an Ode to babble on, NOT Babalon! You'd do better to Xerox somebody else's copy, or something. It really sucked. His Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God, on the other hand, is an excellent book, and it's now in reprint for the same price...BUY IT, if you don't have it! The *correct* title, BTW, is _Hecate's_Fountain_, and it's full of poorly conceived Gematria, and badly disconnected circumstantial coincedence. At times, it comes across like a Stream of Conciousness meander under the influence of Wormwood Absinthe. Many of the dates are all wrong, he claims things were done by the Isis Urania Temple after that Temple was (by his own admission) closed. Other things he talks about are so wildly improbable and unsubstantiated that no serious Student of Magick or Thelema can take it any more seriously than the Hallucinogenic Ramblings of another victim of Choronzon. One can only for better when he *finally* does get around to publishing the _Grand_Grimiore_of_ZOS_. Appearantly he's been "editing" this work for over 35 years now.... Blessed Beast! Walter Five ------------------ walter5@brewich.com (Walter Five) Origin: The Brewers' Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350 3 lines 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 14 Nov 94 18:40:02 Subject: Past Life? UpdReq So, what kind of meditation were you practicing when you had your large vision? Have you worked with AC's prescribed methods for achieving the magickal memory? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 14 Nov 94 00:00:00 Subject: Re: 93 G.'.D.'. UpdReq MA>Thanks for the comments re Hyatt & the G.'.D.'. No problem. Just because I am no longer associated with them does not mean I won't let people know about them should they be interested in this kind of magickal order. 93, --.\\<-H-- * SLMR 2.1a * Huh huh huh...she said "93." Huh huh huh huh huh.... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Tim Maroney 14 Nov 94 00:00:02 Subject: Fancy seeing YOU here! UpdReq Hi Tim! Considering the article you wrote about On-line pagans/magick folk in "Gnosis" magazine, I am surprised you would be here. I thought you totally gave up on the net! ;-) I am actually happy to see you here. I remember some very interesting and firey debates...good to see you again. TTYL...93 --.\\<-H-- michelle.hass@ledge.com * SLMR 2.1a * Huh huh huh...she said "93." Huh huh huh huh huh.... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Tim Maroney 14 Nov 94 00:00:04 Subject: Re: 10 = 1 discussion UpdReq TM>How abnout "Is there an Abyss?" It seems to me that many Thelemites are TM>adopting a very limited skepticism in which a few transient points are open TM>to question, but the entire edifice is not. To someone like myself with a TM>psychological education it seems quite bizarre to assert TM>that the Tree of Life TM>is the ultimate model of the human psyche. What TM>experiments have been done to TM>test it? Personal spiritual experience, as always, proves nothing of a TM>transpersonal nature, because different people interpreting their spiritual TM>experience according to some system which they have adopted usually report TM>results consistent with that model. I see the Etz Chaim as being one of many possible "maps" that can be successfully used to explore Self. However, it should not in any wise be confused with the territory. TM>One of the main flaws of Crowleyan Thelema as currently TM>constituted is that it TM>does not look at itself the same way that it looks at other TM>religions. Other holy books are human revelations which are to be TM>picked and sifted through for gems of authentic insight, but Liber TM>AL =is= The Word of The Praeterhuman Intelligence Which Hath Been TM>Plathed Over Thith Aeon. Other models of the psyche are interesting TM>models for study, but the Tree of Life =is= an authentic reflection TM>of psychological fact which could only be damaged by modification. TM>And so on. Apply the Thelemic model of other religions to Thelema TM>itself and you wind up with a very different way of looking at things I don't know which Thelemites you've been hanging out with, but as for myself I do *not* see Liber AL as being exempt from critical analysis. Nor do I see the Dao Deh Jing in that light, nor the Dhammapada, nor the Rig Veda, nor the Poetic Eddas, nor the TaNaCh, nor the New Testiment and the many Gnostic-flavored books which were cut from the canon in the early history of Pauline Christianity. There is, to my mind, no such thing as an infallable document that can be held up and say "Aiwaz said it, I believe it, that settles it." I went through a (blissfully brief) period of Hebrew Christianity (BAC with Yiddish veneer) from 1981 to 1983 common. And I learned one thing from that experience...there ain't no such thing as an Infallable, Inerrant document. Whatever the inspiration comes from. ALL models of the psyche including the Etz Chaim, are, as you put it, "interesting models to be studied." One of the big fallacies of the current Thelemic movement is that Thelema is a Religion. It is not a Religion, but a Philosophy which encompasses not just Religious Philosophy but Ontology, Epistemology, Ethics and Politics as well. I understand the need some people have to "legitimize" Thelema as a religion, but Crowley thought such attempts as hurtful*, and so do I. 93, --.\\<-H-- michelle.hass@ledge.com * Consult "Magick Without Tears" for his thoughts on the matter. * SLMR 2.1a * Huh huh huh...she said "93." Huh huh huh huh huh.... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Frater H.A.C.A. 14 Nov 94 00:00:06 Subject: Thelemic Insanity UpdReq FH>Greetings in Thelema: FH>How could other Thelemites possibly attack a group of FH>individuals who are trying to promote Thelema and FH>ceremonial magick. It just seems so oxymoronic to me. I FH>respect ANY Order or group of individuals who are trying to FH>promote Thelema. Just chalk it up to stupidity. Pure mammailian stupidity. As for myself, I have found that being a Solitary is more to my liking than involvement in a formal magickal order. But that doesn't mean that my approach is any better than your approach necessarily, or for that matter anyone elses. There should be as many flavors of Thelema as there are Thelemites. And if you like one flavor over another, that's yo' biz-nis, not mine. FH>Is it me or is something wrong FH>with this picture? We already have enough trouble with the FH>"outside" world. Do we really need to fight amongst FH>ourselves? Again, chalk it up to mammalian stupidity and politics. Thank Goddess we haven't taken it as far as some other belief systems have...it would be embarrassing to hear about Thelemic jihads and Thelemic crusades. But it still is hurtful to our greater Cause, which is to help establish the 93 Current firmly in our lives. The rest will take care of itself. "All is connected. The Dao kept on a personal level affects the family. The Dao kept within a family affects the community. The Dao kept within a community influences the Nation. The Dao kept in a Nation's actions cannot help to influence the world. And in this, the possibility for balance returns. All is connected. Know your Self, and everything else is self-evident." --Chapter LIV, Dao Deh Jing. Personal paraphrase (c) 1994 Michelle Klein-Hass 93, bro... --.\\<-H-- * SLMR 2.1a * Keep your mind open if you would learn -- Lao Tzu 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 14 Nov 94 00:00:08 Subject: Crowley on CDROM? Rec'd UpdReq TI>theirs. (They threatened to sue OTO for allowing BBSs to TI>carry electronic versions of AC texts that they publish, TI>and this annoyed me for some reason. They then threatened TI>to sue me and the OTO because of my response, which was TI>defamatory, but my honest opinion. I resigned from the TI>Deputy National Grand Master's office and/or was removed TI>over this. It's better to be allowed free speech.....) 93 Tony! Nice to see your posts again! I had heard rumors that the reason why the works of AC were being electronically transcribed was that the OTO had plans to issue the complete works of Uncle Al on CD ROM. What's up with that??? I would get a fully-multimedia compliant computer with quad-speed SCSI CD ROM Drive in a nanosecond if such a project was to reach its fruition soon. It would be a great resource. The Krishnamurti Foundation put together a CD ROM of all of Krishnamurti's works, which could be searched through with keywords and browsed in many different directions. I saw it in action at the 1992 American Booksellers Association in Anaheim, and it was great! A .ZIP reader would be a perfect front-end, and I suspect if everything was stored on disc in zipped form there would be no probs getting everything on one disc. TTYL & 93 --.\\<-H-- * SLMR 2.1a * Only XT users know that January 1, 1980 was a Tuesday!!! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ned Area: Thelema To: MICHAEL AQUINO 15 Nov 94 02:30:00 Subject: Re: Synthesis UpdReq Ned> Yes it does illustrate H's general relevance quite nicely. Ned> Thank you. Which bits do the Setians subscribe to? MA>I don't think that most Setians would "subscribe" to Hegel, nor MA>exclusively principally to any of the other philosophers whose MA>study we recommend. Each philosopher develops, and tries to MA>explain, a kind of "intellectual lens" through which to peer MA>to make existence, consciousness, the self and the not-self MA>somewhat intelligible. This response, like your last response, is not responsive. Digressions into very basic metaphilosophical utility are not necessary, and I would hope, somewhat insulting to most folk here. I did not suggest that Setians were really clandestine Hegelians; rather I have been attempting to determine the nature of the Setian viewpoint. Your use of the trite "intellectual lens" metaphor prompts me to conjecture that the Setian "lens" might be a compound optical device, whose principal elements appear to be smoke and mirrors. You are, of course, quite free to keep your actual views to yourself. I was operating under the assumption, since you posted here and bothered to string together syntactically meaningful sentences, that you actually wanted to communicate something. If you dont wanna play, thats fine. And if you dont believe that I am among "those with the capacity to understand", then I'm happy to reciprocate by actively joining those who fail to "make the effort to do so". MA>...Rare is the philosopher who provides in his own philosophy such MA> a neat formula for its own obsolescence & transcendence! Such people are perhaps not as rare as you think. Ned. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Cegorach Area: Thelema To: All 15 Nov 94 06:25:00 Subject: Hiya! UpdReq Gee--what'd I miss? .:) (my new Ma Kali smiley, dedicated to Rose Dawn) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 15 Nov 94 22:20:40 Subject: Crowley on CDROM? UpdReq MH> 93 Tony! Nice to see your posts again! Thanks, good to see you back too! MH> I had heard rumors that the reason why the works of AC were being MH> electronically transcribed was that the OTO had plans to issue the MH> complete works of Uncle Al on CD ROM. MH> What's up with that??? Well, prices being what they are now, I would not be surprised to see it available soon. The price of the project was close to $50K a couple of years ago, when it was first widely perceived as a "good thing." Now the machines are down to 2K, and the duplication costs are small. I still don't know how to gauge the demand, though. I know a few hundred would go quickly, but don't know if a few thousand would. MH> A .ZIP reader would be a perfect front-end, and I suspect if everything MH> was stored on disc in zipped form there would be no probs getting MH> everything on one disc. Right now, we are thinking hypertext in Framemaker, with reader included. That way you can produce one CD for many platforms, though I think Zip is pretty unicursal these days, from MacZip to gzip, etc. Have you seen the Book of the Law in Windows help text format? Links from each verse to the manuscript page and the commentaries. MS pages are just 300dpi, but cool, nonetheless. Color scans of the actual MS next. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718