From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 13 Nov 94 11:44:50 Subject: Re: Books UpdReq Michael Aquino wrote in a message to Christeos Pir: MA> Once or twice, for certain Temple of Set rituals, I MA> experimented with Egyptian eye makeup, a la Tut. It's a MA> very startling effect, particularly on males [as we are MA> somewhat more used to eye-accent on females today]; but it MA> really did not work with my eyebrows [Tut as a vampire?], so MA> I gave it up. Shucks. Greets, Have you seen Stargate yet? Horus as pharaoh as vampyre.... Very entertaining, especially since Jaye (Davidson?) from The Crying Game plays the eye-marked "Tut." You keep waiting for him to start into "There'll be blue skies over...." AnTony 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 13 Nov 94 11:49:26 Subject: Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn UpdReq Michael Aquino wrote in a message to All: MA> I have not had any previous contact with this organization, MA> and am curious to know how it is regarded in the Thelemic MA> community. There have been almost as many responses to them as people. Some decry "Thelemic" Golden Dawn as an oxymoron, given that AC claimed to have "destroyed" the GD in an act of New Aeon fiat. Others assume that as the AA was created from the GD's "ashes," Thelemic GD must be AA. (I don't think Hyatt or Cherubim would claim that, though. I certainly wouldn't) They have an echo of their own, much like this one, which I likewise carry on BNet, and although Cherubim appears almost exclusively only to deposit his writings, and Hyatt not at all, their moderator is a voice of reason who is joining the OTO as well, with apparently no animosity on either side. There had been quite a bit of animosity between Hyatt and myself due to some of my inflammatory verbiage on this echo and theirs. (They threatened to sue OTO for allowing BBSs to carry electronic versions of AC texts that they publish, and this annoyed me for some reason. They then threatened to sue me and the OTO because of my response, which was defamatory, but my honest opinion. I resigned from the Deputy National Grand Master's office and/or was removed over this. It's better to be allowed free speech.....) They (Cherubim and Hyatt) have, to my mind, some "interesting" interpretations of AC and the OTO and it's membership, but imagination is certainly within their right, and I only consider them foolish when they speak of them in public, or publish them. MA> I had heard some years ago that Hyatt was trying to restart MA> the Golden Dawn as such, and was working with Francis MA> Regardie shortly after FR retired to Sedona. But I supposed MA> it to be a pre-Crowley G.'.D.'. effort. This present MA> organization is clearly Crowley-inclusive. Yes, FIR helped immensely with setup and history, and funding probably, and left them all his papers and copyrights. As far as I can tell, reading their published material and speaking with people involved before and after FIR's death, the reconstituted GD was indeed pre-Thelemic, although they included the unicursal hexagram, apparently not AC's invention at all. Only well after FIR's death did I become aware of Hyatt and Cherubim working together, and calling it the Thelemic GD. I think Cherubim had already been working along the lines of a merger of Thelema and GD, but I don't think FIR had anything to do with it under that name. Greets! AnTony 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Keith S Schurholz 13 Nov 94 12:14:22 Subject: Re: C.F. Russell and Michael Bertiaux UpdReq Keith S Schurholz wrote in a message to Tony Iannotti: KSS> Yeah, I know about the meeting - more can be said about it KSS> later. . . No, my source for the data is not the same, but KSS> it was confirmed as authentic by P. K-H. But.... What is it? ;-) KSS> Re:Russell, his poetry, IMNSO, Rocks HARD! KSS> Will send some when all is available. Thanks, looking forward to it. KSS> The Occult Digest, produced by Norman Kaseberg and Friends KSS> circa 1972 has some of this material. . . I'll check it out, thanks! KSS> Hope all is well with you. Things here at our Pangenetor KSS> lodge goin' great! Yep, all is cool, winding down at Prentice Hall/Simon & Schuster/Paramount, then on to Wall Street. Enochian sessions are coming along well, though we are having a sticking point opening the square (PAAC) itself. All the beast to Pangenitor! AnTony 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 10 Nov 94 02:06:26 Subject: Re: book of coming forth 2/ UpdReq 93! JN> Now, in the case of Michael Aquino and the JN> Temple of Set it is even more JN> important that they attempt to provide clear, JN> unambiguous descriptions MA> To those with the capacity to understand, and who MA> make the effort to do so, we MA> do. Those without the former, and/or failing the MA> latter, would assuredly find MA> greater personal happiness in some other interest. As long as your initiations do not include criminal activity, what you do is your own business. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 11 Nov 94 10:47:00 Subject: Natural laws? UpdReq PH>Michelle - AH> There are no laws that cannot be subverted in one way or AH> another. MH> Well then, can "Do What Thou Wilt" be subverted? PH>Depends how you defined subversion, I suspect (g). I think that I should have used the word "abrogated." I think that the intent the original writer of that message had ran more to abrogation than mere subversion. We were talking about how gravity is a law and a restriction of our ability to leap up into the sky and fly like a bird. He was claiming that even that could be abrogated if one was "powerful" enough. PH>We have all probably been PH>unlucky enough to run into the"Thelemite" who invokes "do PH>what thou wilt..." to justify outrageous impositions on the PH>Wills of others, ranging from theft to assaults ("sexual" PH>or otherwise). And the no less insidious wanna-guru-bees PH>who instruct that only by suppressing your perception of PH>Will can allow you to grow into a big strong magician (the PH>"do what *I* will shall be the whole of the Law" specimens). Yes, yes, dear friend, I have run into these foul, hopelessly misguided souls. They are the reason why I gave up any attempts to start an order, and why I have become a confirmed Solitary. Both types. And the latter type should rightfully be characterised by the phrase "Do what I WHIM shall be the whole of the Law." PH>And of course, "the slaves shall serve" justifies anything PH>you DO get away with. ***** Centre Of Pestilence Alert! ***** I have always seen that as a lamentation on Hadit's part rather than a positive statement. "The Kings will be Kings forever" is a positive statement, which I interpret as meaning that anyone who aquires a good self-esteem, who realizes that they are Stars and Kings and worthy of respect, can never have this realization taken away from them, no matter how many people put them down. You lose sight of it sometimes, but this sense never quite leaves you even when you are at your most down and depressed. At the same time, there are people who will never see their inner worth, no matter what you say or do, no matter how much effort you take to show them their worth, that they are Kings and Stars and worthy of respect. They will always have that voice inside of them repeating Wayne and Garth's immortal line: "We're not worthy! We're not worthy!" They will look to others, to substances, to religious faith and to other "King" substitutes to whom they will pledge their fealty, either consciously or unconsciously. It's a sad sad situation, but the way things sometimes are. ***** End Centre of Pestilence Alert!!! ***** PH>The Will, like Liberty, which seems to be to emanate from PH>it, is a potent force, yet curiously, like Liberty, PH>fragile. Without a certain amount of PH>vigilant cultivation, and reinforcement by respecting it in PH>others, it can be PH>turned into something as alien to its organic and proper PH>function as Liberty does when it becomes "Political PH>Correctness." Very true. And vigilance is the key. You need to be vigilant against self-doubt and self-deprecation, and also be equally vigilant that you maintain an attitude that "Every Man and Every Woman Is A Star" and treat all around you like the Stars they are. It is equally easy to fall into prejudice, racism or contempt for any "other" that you encounter. And Political Correctness, the poisoned, twisted counterpart of this kind of attitude, is something to guard vigilantly against too. We are Kings internally, and yet the Slave within, the Low Man, still remains. To this internal critic, this internal voice telling you you're nothing, we need to do nothing less than wage total and absolute war against. This Low Man is *not* us, it is the aggregation of all the criticism and all the abuse that people in Authority have dished out against us. And yet, we have the choice to not be victimised by this. It is all up to us. PH>Just a thought. And a good one too. It's good to see your posts again here. I have missed you during my silence...one forced upon me by lack of a working modem. 93, dear friend! --.\\<-H-- * SLMR 2.1a * Do What Thou Wilt -- not just a good idea, but The Law! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wild Hunter Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 11 Nov 94 07:30:00 Subject: SYNTHESIS AND EXPOSIT UpdReq Heilsa, Michael Aquino! 08 Nov 94 07:51, Michael Aquino wrote to Joseph Max: MA> The peasants are revolting! This always reminds me of a very old Wizard of Id cartoon. The King is gazing out of a castle window when a courtier runs up and yells to him; "Sire! Sire! The peasants are revolting!" The King looks at him and deadpans "So what else is new." Ves Heil, Wild Hunter ... Always remember where you came from, so that you may return. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 11 Nov 94 12:37:40 Subject: Initiation UpdReq AH> And more importantly Why did they keep AH> it secret for so long? AH> TMT> Perhaps my biggest question in this vein is how can TMT> so many people ignore spirituality and magick when it TMT> is so simple? Read the fantasy books and you see We are trained to ignore this aspect of our beings by our parents, school, society, In some ways it is really annoying that Cartesian dualism ever reared its ugly head. We are not mind and body but rather bodymind instead. TMT> True, very true. The Magickal Revival that Grant wrote about is TMT> definately occuring even as we speak. Have you read TMT> Hecate's Garden by any chance, I hear that it's about TMT> the works of his Typhonian Lodge, and the thought TMT> just hit me that he may have used his lodge to spur TMT> people into magickal realizations. Hmm... never read it, never seen it. Have to look for it now though. @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Frater H.A.C.A. 12 Nov 94 16:43:54 Subject: TGD UpdReq With the A.'.A.'. being a macrocosmic organization aligning intself with the cosmic energies and the OTO being a "religious" order seeking to spread the law of Thelema, where does the TGD fit in? What do the lessons consist of that they send their members? Do they resemble the old G.'.D.'. lessons or are they more aligned with magickal experiences? Is the structure set for each member or can the lessons/times btwn initiation be personalized? Do you have to go to LA to be in good standing with the order? I think that is enough mind probing for now. I hope to hear from you soon because I am trying to decide whether the TGD would be better for my goals than the OTO. Thanks 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 12 Nov 94 16:54:16 Subject: Round up the usual suspects! UpdReq CP> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. CP> It never ceases to amaze me how people can print any damn thing and no CP> one calls them on it. Witness the following, from the Chambers CP> Encyclopedia Guide to The Occult, by Andre Nataf. CP> CP> ******************************************************** It's a shame and a hilarity that someone would call themselves an authority on the occult and then print the most ridiculous garbage I have ever seen. You can find more accuracies in tabloids than in that man's misconception. It's a wonder that he can even live with himself. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Aquino Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 12 Nov 94 10:04:08 Subject: Re: Thelemic Order of the Go UpdReq Thanks for the comments re Hyatt & the G.'.D.'. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 12 Nov 94 12:13:00 Subject: Friends? UpdReq MH> I had a very strong conviction that I was a person who was close to MH> Aleister Crowley in a previous life. TMT>Looks as though we might have a bit in common in that aspect. TMT>It's tempting TMT>to make yourself believe it. My problem was that my TMT>fiancee was doing what she could to support this opinion. Yeah...that does tend to feed it. That and, in my case, finding weird parallels between my life now and that of Victor Neuberg (the person whom I had the sense that I had been) back when he was alive. My journal is full of it. When I sat down and read "The Magical Dilemma of Victor Neuberg" in September of this year, (it's been reissued) it was the last straw. I knew this guy! I lived in his skin! And I felt every bit of pain the guy felt in his life. It was an emotionally wrenching experience. I knew then that I could succumb to that pain, and be overwhelmed by it and quite literally possessed by that pain, or I could just push it aside, deal with the karma that I seem to have brought from that life (a tendency towards panic and clinical depression, primarily) and just keep a good distance from it. TMT>As you said earlier, Doubt is a wonderful thing. It keeps you sane. It allows you to keep a distance when you are doing any sort of magickal work. It's something I am actively cultivating at present. TMT> Have you ever had a past life reading done on you? It's interesting you mentioned Tibet, because a person came up to me in a bookshop (The world-famous Bodhi Tree, I think...) and asked me about three moles I have on my body...two on my upper back and one above my right breast. I said yes, why? She told me that she had a very strong sense that I had been a novice monk in Tibet and had been killed by Chinese rifle fire when troops stormed into a monastery and shot the place up back in 1959 ev. This revelation happened in the late 1970s common. During a meditation in 1992 ev, I saw the last moments of my life and a glimpse of the space between my current life and this last life. It was vivid...like watching a movie co-directed by Bernardo Bertolucci (think "The Last Emperor" and "Little Buddha") David Lynch and the late Sam Peckinpah. I was running down a corridor to get to morning Puja...I had slept in a little. I was not one of the Lama's best students. I took my place and took up chanting the sutra that my brethren had already gotten a few pages into. I saw a red hat on the Lama so I think I was either Kagyupa or Karmapa. We were all wearing yellow robes. Suddenly there was a clamor in the back of the room. Then the shots ran out. I remember thinking "fireworks?" I saw the large statue of either Buddha or Padmasambhava literally decapitated by rifle fire, and the head strike the head of the Lama. I looked down at my body, and I noticed that I had a hole in my chest, to my right hand side, which was gushing blood. I thought "oh...blood." which was apparently my last thought of that life. I blacked out. I found myself not in the Bardos that I had some knowledge about but little practice with, but just hovering above the Earth watching it spin. I felt alone, desolate, and confused. I broke my meditation there. Apparently the moles the woman spoke of so long ago marked the two entry wounds and one exit wound this young Tibetan suffered by Chinese rifle fire. The bullet that entered on the left apparently did not exit. I suspect it was the fatal one. I had completely forgotten the incident by the time I had the vision in 1992 ev. I counted the vision as being interesting, but since I was meditating, a major "break" and therefore a defect in my meditative state. And again, I must keep my skepticism. These are subjective "proofs" of something which cannot be proven. So I must set them aside and continue on my Work. 93, bro... --.\\<-H-- * SLMR 2.1a * Wait, Shirley McLaine WAS my mom in another life! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 12 Nov 94 12:24:02 Subject: a place to start 1/ UpdReq CP> Michelle Hass? MICHELLE HASS??? Whew! Now _there's_ a name from the CP> past! Nice to see you're still around... thought we'd lost you! CP> Written anything new? Hmm...Christeos Pir...what name were you using when I was active on the Net? Nice to hear from an oldtimer. I've been silent because of technical probs. The sickness I was suffering in 1991 ev was my first bout with Chronic Fatigue and Immune Dysfunction Syndrome, or CFIDS. I must have scared a lot of people with my suspicions of worse things! I was diagnosed in April 1992 ev. I am currently mostly writing on mundane matters...I am continuing my work as a freelance journalist, and I am attempting to get a zine of my own going about cutting-edge animation. There will be a sample issue ready of this zine, called FRAME ZERO, probably around the end of January. However, I *did* recently do an interpretive paraphrase of the Dao Deh Jing called "Of The Dao, Empowerment and The Force of Life" which you can check out excerpts of if you get the echo Tao_Study. I may or may not publish it wider...I am still ambivalent about its correctness as a rendering of the Ancient Child's words. However, I feel it is a better rendering of the Dao Deh Jing from a Thelemic perspective than Crowley's Liber 157, which often times misses the spirit of Lao Tzu's words and awkwardly tries to stuff them into Crowley's own mindset. The Dao Deh Jing is Thelemic enough of a document without having to force it into a shape it does not have. Good talking to you, whoever you are... --.\\<-H-- * SLMR 2.1a * Do What Thou Wilt -- not just a good idea, but The Law! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 12 Nov 94 13:40:14 Subject: Baloney about Unca' Al UpdReq CP> It never ceases to amaze me how people can print any damn thing and no CP> one calls them on it. Witness the following, from the Chambers CP> Encyclopedia Guide to The Occult, by Andre Nataf. Good god, man...you _have_ been digging in obscure corners! What used bookstore did you find _that_ in? ;-) CP> From poetry to sexual magic, by way of drugs, Crowley spent his life in CP> a fruitless search for supernatural powers. Fruitless? I don't think so. His tree has borne both good and bad fruit, but it has been very, very productive indeed. Perhaps the seed has to drop into the ground first before it produces, though... CP> the Order of the Golden Dawn, a secret society of which...Bram Stoker, the author of _Dracula_, were also members. No, unless I am mistaken Stoker never was a member of the GD. CP> Crowley became the society's grand master He was *never* GM of the order! D.D.C.F. would never have countenanced some "upstart" dethroning him! Remember what happened when Crowley challenged him for just that? CP>and formed a homosexual partnership with Allan Bennett, known as Iohi CP>Aour, another of its members. They had a close working relationship and Bennett was very much one of Crowley's teachers...but I doubt seriously they were butt-buddies. CP>and Crowley declared his wish to become a"saint of Satan" Where did they dig that crap up from? and to be known as the..."wickedest man alive." An appelation hung on him by the editors of John Bull magazine. CP> Crowley finally came to believe he was a vampire, More baroque invention, unless you take into consideration the nature of the "Secret" of the IX degree of OTO. CP>began to inject heroin, Which the esteemed Author of this piece declines to mention was PRESCRIBED to Uncle Al for his extreme case of Asthma, Heroin being the only effective drug known in the early part of this Century, before the discovery of Steroids. CP> Whaddaya think, folks: shall we have a contest to see who can find the CP> most errors, mis-statements, and outright lies in this gem? Well, there they are, save for some general ones regarding a very screwed up timeline. This is bosh, twaddle, and complete rubbish. And Uncle Al would have had a good laugh over it, I betcha! Like, 93, dudes & dudettes! --.\\<-H-- * SLMR 2.1a * Huh huh huh...she said "93." Huh huh huh huh huh.... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718