From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 28 Oct 94 21:21:28 Subject: Covens UpdReq TMT> Touche? Heh... not really. It's just that I have played that game in the past and know how it leads. AH> times have you died TMT? TMT> I do not know if this is true, but if you say so, it is your reality TMT> that you design. In my experience I have never run TMT> across a person that has jumped into the abyss and TMT> come out on top. I must say that you should be TMT> careful of what you proclaim. Of course. But at the same time as I am plummetting into the Abyss, I am also walking the precarious route accross it. Borther of the Left and Right hand paths at the same time. Paradoxical yes, but there is room for all possibilities in my continuum. TMT> If it is true that you were once like me then how did TMT> you succeed in your work. It seems that this TMT> information would be most valuable to me. I do ask TMT> that you deliver this to me out of respect for TMT> another on the quest, but again that is your choice. I succeeded by persevering through the worst of it, By knowing that what did not kill me made me stronger, that how ever many times my ego died and was replaced with another, more coherent ego that I could do nothing but grow with each experience. Always remember that nothing happens to you without your allowing it to happen, that within each encounter, each new experience no matter how unpleasant, there is something for you to learn. Actually I should not say that I have truly succeeded as I am constantly and continually learning about this process. This too is something to remember, never stop learning, never stop trying to expand your horizons, for once you stop progressing you begin regressing. TMT> I think that i may be experiencing these lessons even TMT> as we speak. My mind searches and struggles and so TMT> far I have grown, learned, and come out on top. After awhile you should reach the point where you recognize the fact that everyone is but a reflection of yourself, but you also come to realize that they are entitled to be the ultimate expression of their selfhood as are you. TMT> I thank you for your message. At least it was an intelligent TMT> renouncement of what I said. Good arguements are TMT> always welcome, but since my time is limited on this TMT> BBS, I have to cut my side short. TMT> Love always and a new respect. TMT> peace. Pax TMT, I'll have to cut this short as well as I find I am getting a tad incoherent. More will follow. @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: David Cherubim Area: Thelema To: All 28 Oct 94 23:25:48 Subject: TGD Initiations UpdReq THELEMIC GOLDEN DAWN ANNOUNCEMENT Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Let it be known that on 23 October, 1994 e.v., I, the Frater Superior Chief of the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn, inaugurated and put into effect, through the initiation of Soror S.S., the new regulation that all ceremonial initiations in the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn must be conducted without financial obligation on the part of the candidate. This applies to both First and Second Order ceremonial initiations. Though I have initiated many people in the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn without any financial obligation on their part, it has never been an actual Grand Temple regulation. This regulation is now in effect. This applies to all current and future Temples of the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn. All TGD public gatherings, such as classes, rites, and all other events, will remain free of charge. However, there will still be a charge for newsletters, lessons, rituals, official instructions, and other TGD documents received through the mail. This is based on the many hours of dedicated labor put into their production and on the necessity to pay for postage costs. Please address any questions regarding our new regulation to the Grand Temple in writing at: THELEMIC GOLDEN DAWN, 1626 No. Wilcox Ave. #418, Los Angeles, CA 90028 USA. There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. Love is the law, love under will. David Cherubim Frater Superior Chief, Grand Temple of the Thelemic Order of the Golden Dawn 93 93/93 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Zeekram Area: Thelema To: Andrew Haigh 29 Oct 94 11:44:00 Subject: Re: Fire! UpdReq *** Quoting Andrew Haigh to Zeekram dated 10-23-94 *** > Z> Ok,I see all of your games... And I do have to admit, > Z> they are amusing... But I am doing this for personal > Z> goal... And besides, If I am to be a wizard, I am gonna > Z> need to know how to work with the elements.... > > Z> Zeekram > > You also need to realize that there are mundane things that > will > accomplish the same task faster and easier than trying to will > fire into existance. Sure it is possible to attain a certain > proficiency in pyrokinesis, but is it truly worth the trouble > to > go to such lengths in order to be able to perform a parlour > trick? > > Try lighting the fire at the base of your spine and slowly > bring > it up your spine through each energy center in turn. This will > serve you better in the long run than being able to light a > fire > with your mind. > > @:|---- > > *!* Maximus 2.01wb > * Origin: The O.A.S.I.S. BBS [New Westminster BC] (1:153/880) > Thanks for the advice! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: StarChild 29 Oct 94 23:48:00 Subject: Questions? UpdReq Hello StarChild! JP>> Zomelak is actually a suburb in Cairo, but I never found JP>> Azarak there . S> Hmm... Do you know if it was a city in in its own rights, and/or S> whether there were any foundation spiritual schools there? I don't know anything about it, other than it exists. We were driving across Cairo in a taxi, and I noticed the suburb name... checked it out on a map later, but as to origins, I've no idea. I wouldn't even know what it was in Arabic. S> Its the 4th time I've heard of a Neteru origin for some of the S> Celtic/Gardnerian work... Coincidence? JP>> Michael Harrison in "The Roots of Witchcraft" gives it JP>> a Basque origin, but I've always thought his reasoning JP>> more than a little suspect. S> As do I, especially after discussing the matter with a magickal S> associate here in Texas, and having discovered a possible S> Babylonian influence to both names. Harrison's ideas always seemed way off the wall to me. Babylonian sounds more likely, but bearing in mind that there could be mis-copies over the years, heaven only knows how it started out :-} S> Ever heard of Azareth (also S> possibly Azureth) and/or Zonaik? More on this as I hear more. I have heard of variations on the Az...eth name, but never any origins. Zonaik is new to me. I'd be interested in whatever you turn up :) S> However, it begins to be possible that the work we're re-editing S> may 1.) possibly be tainted; 2.) have possible Mythraic, S> Hermetic, and/or even Kabbalistic influences. The latter, S> however, is not to be confused with the taint, as it also appears S> in Woodland Celtic, Alexandrian, and several other Celtic family S> traditions. Gee: isn't research fun? Sure is :) Can you tell me some more about Woodland Celtic? That came recently in another conversation. B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: To Meta Therion Area: Thelema To: Andrew Haigh 30 Oct 94 14:22:30 Subject: Covens UpdReq AH> Actually I should not say that I have truly succeeded as I am AH> constantly and continually learning about this process. This too AH> is something to remember, never stop learning, never stop trying AH> to expand your horizons, for once you stop progressing you begin AH> regressing. Yes, One should always keep a beginner's mind. AH> After awhile you should reach the point where you recognize the AH> fact that everyone is but a reflection of yourself, but you also AH> come to realize that they are entitled to be the ultimate AH> expression of their selfhood as are you. Guess I'm one up on myself, because I have come to understand this. By the way, I just went through a drastic personality shift a little over a week ago. Is this the experience that you speak of earlier? AH> that what did not kill me made me stronger, that how ever many AH> times my ego died and was replaced with another, more coherent AH> ego that I could do nothing but grow with each experience. AH> Always remember that nothing happens to you without your Yeah, there it is. How long does this last? Lifetimes? It seems to me that you wouldn't have to be a mystic or magickian to do this, but perhaps I am wrong. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: To Meta Therion 30 Oct 94 19:07:00 Subject: a place to start UpdReq On 10-28-94 To Meta Therion wrote to Michelle Hass... MH> Careful, TMT. There is only One who sits at the top of the Tree, and MH> He has been there since even before the dawn of the Aeon of Isis. MH> He is not human, in fact, some say He is a God. And His name is MH> Hermes the Thrice-Greatest, Tehuti, the Gate between the Gods and MH> Humanity. TM> Where do you get this info. You tell me that no one can TM> attain Ippisimus? What is your theory behind this, because TM> I do not understand. If no one can attain this goal, then TM> why is it even mentioned? I am not entirely sure about the source of my warning to you. I began typing it in and although I did not understand its meaning entirely I felt I needed to get the message to you. In my imperfect understanding, no person who is currently embodied can rise beyond the level 9 = 2, that is, the grade of Magus. It might take death to get one beyond that level, and at that point, one merges their essence and what is left of the personality after successfully crossing the Abyss with the Archetypical Being that is known to the Adepti of the West as Hermes Trismegistus, or Tehuti. In essence, all who get to the 10 = 1 level become part of the archetype, which is an archetype which exists in practically every culture on the Planet. This is only one theory, however. But Crowley and various initiates of the G.'.D.'. Current all agree: no human in flesh can rise higher. And this message could conceivably be taken literally. Just because the grade 10 = 1 exists, doesn't necessarily mean that it is open to mortal man. Kether is the Crown, but it is also the Gate between Knowable Reality and Unknowable reality, between the Tree and the Ain Soph Aur. In most cultures, the Gatekeeper is the Messenger of the Gods. In the tradition of Judaism, that Gatekeeper is the Archangel Gabriel. In the traditional religion of the Yoruba people of Nigeria, and also in the Afro-syncretistic traditions of Voudoun and Santeria, the Gatekeeper is Eshu Ellegua. In the Old Religion of the Britons, that Gatekeeper is Puck. In Greco-Roman mythos, that Gatekeeper is Hermes/ Mercury. And in the Hermetic tradition, that Gatekeeper is Hermes Trismegistos, a tradition that goes back to Gnosticism which held to many tenets of Christianity and yet held a special place for Hermes. The Ipsissimus is the Gate, the Mirror of the Dao. If you are so high in your spiritual progress to be approaching the Abyss...and I, let me restate, am not...then maybe it is for your own conscience to consider these words. If you are in the Third Order already, then perhaps I shouldn't even be speaking these words to you. I have not even penetrated the veil of Paroketh successfully. But consider this. And to speak to another post, this from one who considers this to be a "Restriction" and therefore a sin under the Law of Thelema, I ask this: is gravity a restriction? It's a law, it restricts our ability to just jump up and fly, or hop around as if we were on the Moon, and yet it is a reality. There are certain laws of nature. Perhaps this is one of them. In Thelema, --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * There is joy in the journey... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: All 30 Oct 94 14:32:04 Subject: 93? 93! UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. It's not that I don't enjoy 'talking' to my local Brethren...but we can talk voice and save some bbs-time. IOW, the THELEMA echo has been *empty* or nearly so here for a long time, and I'm jonesin'!! =:o Anybody see this? Are we getting out, and nobody else is getting in, or is it time to circle the wagons? I *hate* mail-flow problems! :/ Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ned Area: Thelema To: BALANONE 30 Oct 94 02:19:00 Subject: Synthesis and exposition UpdReq Formal (and hence, insincere) apologies for wading into your 3-way wrangle. Since I believe you all have come to something of a stopping point, I wanted to throw down while you were all still fired up in the hope that you might discuss your many interesting points with a non-entity like myself. Aquino said: MA> Every particularization expands the scope of the principle - MA> pushes outwards on the limits of its universe, one might say. In MA> the case of the principle of consciousness of the self (=Set), this MA> would be no less the case, and the Neter would partake of the MA> awareness of its particularizations accordingly. You might Cf. MA> Georg Hegel's discussions of the "overmind", although he saw the MA> OM as something *driving* and controlling individual minds on MA> a collective basis - which would not apply to a Setian situation of MA> each individual mind possessing [at least the potential for] free MA> will. So, "every particularization expands" and "pushes" the principle, and the Neter "partakes" of an awareness of every particularization. Sounds like the ideal is in some way influenced by the particular, and subject to progressive development. Yes? I think that would be an answer to Josh's original question. Josh said to Aquino: BJN> One would think that you have had experiences relevant to the BJN> question, and have synthesized some sort of model of the BJN> relationship between the Neter and its particularization in BJN> yourself, so that you don't have to depend on other BJN> people's ideas. I agree with Josh. Aquino displays an admirable facility with words. If Mr Aquino's explanation is so complex that he feels obliged to appeal (for the sake of *clarity*, yet) to the tortuous prose of Hegel's translators (which is presumably derived from Hegel's own tortuous German), then I think his explanation is suspect. Obscurity is nearly always a sign of obscurantism, and I think both are objectionable. A nebulous offhand reference to Hegel, which admittedly "would not apply to a Setian situation" really begs to be justified, or at least explained. Aquino's subsequent insistence that Hegel is relevant, when coupled with his unwillingness to even roughly demonstrate this relevance, leads one to suspect a strange attempt to shore up an illformed argument by claiming that a powerful name is actually a proposition. Flag waving. Balanone answered Josh's objections to Aquino's explanation: BA>You therefore have a choice. You can complain about not getting your BA>sound bites, or you can take the time to explore the meaning of the BA>very clear expositions you've already rejected. ... BA>Balanone In other words: "My way or the highway." OK, your way - While exploring the meaning of a certain Setian's "very clear expositions" I have come across a spurious reference to a Hegelian concept that I believe is intended to obscure the expositor's meaning rather than serve as "Setian symbolism/jargon/shorthand",particularly since it is claimed in the very same sentence that it does "not apply to a Setian situation". The expositor later contradicted this clause by contending that Hegel is relevant to his exposition, but declined to specify in exactly what manner. Would you care to clarify? And while we're citing Hegel without giving specific pg numbers, lets referencelessly quote some Hegel that he never published (though he did write it): "the most venerable human beings are assuredly not always those who have speculated most about religion and who very often transform their religion into theology." -sounds neither Setian nor Thelemic. Ned. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Keith S Schurholz 31 Oct 94 08:30:10 Subject: C.F. Russell and Michael Bertiaux UpdReq KSS> Also- are there any Krumm-Heller enthusiasts around? We are KSS> near to completing a translation (Spanish to English) of his KSS> "Logos , Mantram, and Magic" essay, as well as his larger book KSS> on the Gnostic church. Sounds interesting! I think you have everything we have in the archives? Though I don't remember looking for K-H specifically. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Ar Aakhu-t 31 Oct 94 08:44:54 Subject: Thelemic marriage ritual UpdReq AA> The ritual I've heard of being used is The AA> Gnostic Mass, in a version where the people being AA> married are the communicants- special emphasis made on AA> the part of the collects "Unto them that this day AA> unite with Love under Will let fall success..." etc.- Yes, the last wedding I went to used that formula, though there was a second communion after for the rest of the congregation. (and many kegs as well....) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 31 Oct 94 08:47:34 Subject: 93? 93! UpdReq RD> It's not that I don't enjoy 'talking' to my local RD> Brethren...but we can talk voice and save some bbs- RD> time. IOW, the THELEMA echo has been *empty* or RD> nearly so here for a long time, and I'm jonesin'!! RD> =:o Anybody see this? Are we getting out, and nobody RD> else is getting in, or is it time to circle the RD> wagons? I *hate* mail-flow problems! :/ I see this, and I hope you see this reply. I have changed a few settings, and hope that the new archiver layout will improve the sitch. Sorry about that! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718