From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 13 Oct 94 04:20:06 Subject: Thelemic Meanings UpdReq 93! KB > If it's okay with you, I'd like to include your "What KB > Thelemites Say and what they really mean" in the next issue KB > of _Annuit Coeptis_. JM> Absolutely! I am impressed and glad to see the healthy JM> sense of humor you're expressing here! Go fo it...! Thanks for your permission to include it. Do you have a PO Box where I could send you a copy? BTW, I believe you once said to someone that you weren't an "official" Thelemite because you're not an OTO initiate. Please note that OTO does _not_ stand for "Official Thelemite Organization". Just as you can be a Catholic without being a priest, monk, or nun, or a patriot without joining the military, you can be a Thelemite without joining the OTO. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Zeekram 16 Oct 94 07:12:36 Subject: Fire! UpdReq 93! Z> Does any one know a simple ritual for fire? The ritual that I have made Z> is hard and time comsuming! And for little progress!!It took me 2 and a Z> half hours just for the twigs to smolder!!! Why not try a good fire wand, such as a match or a lighter, and invoke the gods sulphur, phosphorus, flint, and butane, or a fire pantacle, and invoke Fresnel? Much, much quicker! 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 17 Oct 94 11:38:02 Subject: Chaos Magick Practice UpdReq JM> I suppose that's feasible, but I've also seen a few who have gone right off JM> the deep-side of the Abyss, too. I met a fellow who was initiated by a brujo JM> shaman in Brazil (he had diaries, photos, and consistant tales to tell) but JM> couldn't keep his life together at all; a total flake, to the point of being JM> dangerous. Before that he was a fairly successful health-food distributor JM> with his own franchise. It had been years since his initiation, and I knew JM> him for over a year. Some people never do find their way out of Chapel JM> Perilous, ya know... Agreed, though I haven't encountered a very many of them. Come to think of it, I've only encountered one myself -- the rest were all hearsay. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 17 Oct 94 21:36:06 Subject: book of coming forth UpdReq JN> Okay, so to what extent and in what ways can the Neter be influenced by JN> its reflections, and/or the rest of the universe? I use influence in the JN> general sense of "producing a change of state, reaction or response". MA> How can the principle of the sphere be "influenced" by a red rubber beachball MA> in Toys R Us? Is the principle "aware" of that particularization? In case you've forgotten, I was asking YOU that question. And we're not talking about red rubber beachballs; we're talking about the relationship between the Neter and its reflection as a human being. You've _already_ stated that there is a degree of feedback between them, in both directions. I was trying to elicit some specifics. Are you now retracting that statement? MA> Every particularization expands the scope of the principle - pushes outwards MA> on the limits of its universe, one might say. In the case of the principle of MA> consciousness of the self (=Set), this would be no less the case, and the MA> Neter would partake of the awareness of its particularizations accordingly. MA> You might Cf. Georg Hegel's discussions of the "overmind", MA> although he saw the MA> OM as something *driving* and controlling individual minds on a collective MA> basis - which would not apply to a Setian situation of each individual mind MA> possessing [at least the potential for] free will. ** Sigh ** Maybe I should just drop this; seems like you are starting to revert to "dodge-'em" mode again. Let's forget Hegel; he's really as irrelevant to the discussion as Husserl was the last time around. And he has a bad habit of treating things with different kinds of reality as if they had the same sort. What I'm interested in is what you, Michael Aquino, Magus of the Aeon of Set and Ipsissimus of the Temple of Set, perceive the situation is from your _own_ experience. One would think that you have had experiences relevant to the question, and have synthesized some sort of model of the relationship between the Neter and its particularization in yourself, so that you don't have to depend on other people's ideas. So from that viewpoint, please go back to the question quoted at the top of this message. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Ar Aakhu-t 17 Oct 94 10:33:02 Subject: organization, hazards & UpdReq On 10-15-94 Ar Aakhu-t wrote to Michelle Hass... MH> So there you go. I see Thelema as a philosophy in the best MH> textbook MH> sense of the word: it has a Metaphysics, an Ethics, an MH> Epistemology MH> and various other earmarks that you probably learned about in MH> Philosophy 101. It is not necessarily a religion. AA> Agreed. curiously, there are people who do take Thelema as a religion AA> and those who don't- such as one brother here who is Jewish AA> and considers Judaism his religion- Thelema is a AA> philosophy. Others, especially those who are really into AA> the Gnostic Mass, take it really as a religion, it seems to AA> me. AA> I'm not sure Crowley knew what it 'was'- though I AA> suppose (obviously) it's up to each individual. If I had AA> to declare a religion, it would be Thelema; I consider AA> myslef a Thelemite. Thought maybe I'd rather consider AA> myself not religious. As far as myself, I consider myself an Agnostic Daoist Pagan, usually rendered as Agnostic if anyone asks. I am Agnostic in that I feel that the proper attitude towards deity of any sort is that of neither believing nor disbelieving, but maintaining a scientific distance. I am Daoist in that I try to live up to the attitude and way of life advocated by Lao-Tzu in the Dao Deh Jing...not Daoist as in what is practiced in China currently under that banner. And I consider myself Pagan in that I identify myself with the Pagan movement and its concern for the Planet and with providing a female-inclusive alternative to patriarchal religion. Thelema is my operating philosophy. I was born Jewish but don't identify with Judaism. There...does that clear things up? 93 --.\\<-H-- PS: may I use your wonderful little ASCII Unicursal hexagram on occasion? It's great! ... OFFLINE 1.35 * There is joy in the setting-out... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Fir 17 Oct 94 10:39:04 Subject: Sekhmet UpdReq On 10-16-94 Fir wrote to Michelle Hass... F > MH> unheard of. And in Egyptian mythology Sekhmet was the sister/wife F > MH> of Hoor sa Ast, Horus the son of Isis. (As opposed to Her-Ur, F > F > Doesn't Egyptian mythology also place her as being married to Ptah? Egyptian mythology often contradicts itself. I suspect that in Memphis, the cult center of Ptah, Sekhmet was Ptah's consort. In Thebes, this might not have been the case. Since Ra Hoor Khuit's (Ra Herakhti) cult center was Thebes, amongst the Royal Court, this association might be traced to Thebes. But even if I and Murry Hope are mistaken, there are so many parallels between Hoor and Sekhmet that make me believe they are associated God-forms. And I also have the purely subjective tool of magickal experience to go on. 93, --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * There is joy in the journey... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 17 Oct 94 10:47:06 Subject: Re: Sekhmet UpdReq On 10-14-94 Michael Aquino wrote to Michelle Hass... MA> So the Osiris cult MA> might describe Sekhmet as Horus' [the Younger] wife/consort/ whatever, but in MA> Sekhmet's own cult center her husband was the lion-god Nefertum. That's a bit of info I've never heard. Isn't Nefertum the deity of the setting sun? And how did they relate to each other...was Sekhmet considered the greater of the two deities? Just curious...it took Western naturalists several centuries to finally admit that the lionesses, not the male lion, were the real power in a pride. MA> Today people get very partisan about gods, demons, whatever. The ancient MA> Egyptians were far more flexible [=mature] about the whole business, being MA> perfectly happy, for the most part, to adopt this god in, lend that one out, MA> and so forth, without anyone throwing tantrums about it. Too true. 93 --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * There is joy in the goal. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 17 Oct 94 10:57:08 Subject: Re: CHAOS MAGICK PRACTIC UpdReq On 10-14-94 JOSEPH MAX wrote to MICHELLE HASS... MH> I think that Israel Regardie exhibited a great deal of wisdom about MH> this in insisting that potential magickal students of his would go MH> through at least a year of psychotherapy as a prerequisite. I am MH> currently laying off of active magickal practice after a very powerful MH> experience I went through (and I'd rather not talk about it) MH> reawakened some psychological problems I thought I had dealt with in MH> therapy two years ago. A person _can_ get to a very high spiritual MH> state and awaken higher circuits (cf. R.A.W., Leary and Alli) and not MH> have their emotional/psychological house in order. Arguably this MH> happened to Jack Parsons, to give one example. In fact, a good case MH> can be made that even our beloved Uncle Al was not entirely stable in MH> these areas. JM> Nobody ever said that crossing the Abyss was supposed to be easy! Quite true. And if you don't have your psychological act together before you make the attempt...look out. BTW I am not even close to that level. MH> I'd rather put magick down for awhile and clean up my psychological MH> garbage than risk being really high...and totally nutso. JM> (All kidding aside, good luck on your path. - J:.M:.555) And to you too. At least I can keep up with the theory here in cyberspace. BTW did you know that 555 = Hadit in gematria? And also Eleuthera, which is Freedom in Greek? 93 --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * Huh huh huh...she said "93." 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Zeekram 17 Oct 94 11:10:12 Subject: Fire! UpdReq On 10-14-94 Zeekram wrote to All... Z > Does any one know a simple ritual for fire? Z > The ritual that I have made is hard and time comsuming! And Z > for little progress!!It took me 2 and a half hours just for Z > the twigs to smolder!!! Well, trying to aquire a siddhi like that is I guess a fair enough quest...but wouldn't just keeping some matches or a "portable fire elemental" (BIC lighter) be a bit more sensible? Uncle Al, in "Magick Without Tears" told this tale about this Hindu aspirant who practiced hard for 20 years to learn to levitate across a river. He finally got it together when his Guru got wind of his work and told him he would have done better if he had constructed a raft for the purpose. I think you should keep that in mind in your "quest for fire." 93, --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * Stars shine even when it's cloudy. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michelle Hass Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 17 Oct 94 11:16:14 Subject: Re: FIRE! UpdReq On 10-14-94 JOSEPH MAX wrote to ZEEKRAM... JM> Return to thy sacred fire space, and point the Wand at the flammable JM> material of your choice. With the magic words, "Fire is Cool... heh heh JM> heh..." stroke the elemantal wheel of the Wand, and a great flame will burst JM> forth! Whoa! And like, would it work better if I, like, put on one of my Danzig albums? And, like, assumed the God-form of the Great Cornholio? Huh huh huh...that would be cool. [Rolling on the floor laughing, hysterically!] 93, --.\\<-H-- ... OFFLINE 1.35 * Huh huh huh...she said "93." 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 18 Oct 94 04:06:00 Subject: Academia & Philosophy UpdReq 93- MA> One of life's best experiences. I did a lot of my graduate work MA> with Professor MA> Raghavan Iyer at U.C. Santa Barbara. He is one of the Top Guns MA> of the MA> Theosophical Society on an international scale, a member of the MA> Club of Rome, MA> doctorate from Oxford, and a mega-brain. And a nice guy, who MA> both understood MA> and respected my path to initiation as I did his. I drank cool, MA> clear water at MA> his seminars. It is such a pleasure encountering people who respect and enjoy the recognition that another's path has something in common to appreciate. It always feels like something beyond just good manners, and it's invariably the mark of the best people one has the chance to meet. Best to you- 93/93 ,-----. . . / H \ -Ar Aakhu-t | H | bb125@scn.org | H | \ ===^=== / `._____,' 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Michelle Hass 18 Oct 94 04:12:00 Subject: Religion & Philosophy & lettuce UpdReq 93- Makes sense- and we all seem to be moving away from the whole thing of self-identity based on religious membership. I don't really use the term 'God' in serious working vocabulary- I don't have pretense to science as much as pragmatics, I suppose. Seems like many people just don't need to declare a faith, any more than a political party. Go ahead and grab the hexagram- that's what they're there for! 93/93 /\ . . .___/__\___. Ar Aakhu-t `./ \,' / ,><. \ bb125@scn.org /' `\ 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 17 Oct 94 21:34:42 Subject: Covens UpdReq Hello To Meta Thereon! JP>> Most witches I know are more likely to be well- JP>> read in Crowley than in Buckland . TMT> Wow! Covens that are well-read in Crowley! The coven in which I was initiated was fairly Crowley-centric, and a couple of the most traditional of Gardnerian covens in England do an excellent Gnostic Mass at the Spring Equinox each year :) Of the coven I ran in London, over half of them are active on a Thelemic current in one form or another... one is married to Gerald Suster, and they run their own kind of thing, but that's another story . TMT> Hell, we're lucky to TMT> have Thelemites well-read in Crowley from what I have heard. Well, the ones who post in this echo are exceptionally well-read, I've found :) TMT> It TMT> would be most impressive to see Wiccans wandering around TMT> discussing Uncle Al. Happens all the time in England :) TMT> I'm lucky if anyone I speak to has even read Liber AL Legis. I TMT> guess I need to exit the States for awhile. Not necessarily.... you'll find more than a few here who know what they're talking about B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 17 Oct 94 21:39:54 Subject: CHAOS MAGICK? UpdReq Hello To Meta Thereon! TMT> Thanks. What is _Prime Chaos_ about, someone else mentioned it TMT> to me earlier, but I haven't heard anything about this release. Quote from an article: "Prime Chaos is Phil's first proper book with a flat spine, 135 pages of practical, provocative material which illustrates how to expand magickal ideas and methods based on both a solo and a group basis. The emphasis is on experimentation and magick as a way of _living_ rather than something to _do_ in life. ... He gives a lucid explanation of the nature of Chaos Magick, stressing the importance of freedom in weaving one's own path rather than following one already laid. ... Prime Chaos blends sorcery and shamanic magick with postmodernist ideas, exploring use of drama, Voodoo theatre, Cybersorcery and virtual magick as options for development. ..." Hope that excerpt gives you a bit of an idea of what it's all about :) Don't ask me to comment on the book though, 'cos I haven't read it. B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: To Meta Thereon 17 Oct 94 21:46:34 Subject: Demon Lover? UpdReq Hello To Meta Thereon! 11 Oct 94 15:13, To Meta Thereon wrote to Julia Phillips: JP>> Did you see his article about creating a demon lover in JP>> Talking Stick last year? Veerrry interesting :) TMT> No, I didn't, perhaps you could share the ideas. Is it in TMT> reference to Succubi and Incubi or is it far beyond those TMT> concepts. Incubi and Succubi - how to create one, what to do with it, and who gets to sleep in the damp patch TMT> I have heard that such a thing could become quite dangerous and TMT> would lead to the death of one or the other. What does Phil have TMT> to say about that? He doesn't play down its potential danger, but I can't remember mention of the death of one or other. If I get chance, I'll post the article up here, but it's quite lengthy, so please don't hold your breath while you wait :) B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: StarChild 17 Oct 94 21:48:40 Subject: Questions? UpdReq Hello StarChild! 10 Oct 94 17:35, StarChild wrote to All: S> Anyone have a root land/language/interpretation for the S> (apparent) Names "Azarak" and/or "Zomelak?" Zomelak is actually a suburb in Cairo, but I never found Azarak there . Michael Harrison in "The Roots of Witchcraft" gives it a Basque origin, but I've always thought his reasoning more than a little suspect. B*B Julia 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718