From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Michael Aquino 25 Sep 94 07:20:12 Subject: _The Book of Coming Forth by Night_ UpdReq 93! Since I've missed your posts on another area, it was good to see yours here regarding _TBOCFBN_. We don't always have the benefit of being able to talk with someone who has done something controversial (Jack Parsons being deceased, for example). MA> As I have repeatedly said over the years since 1975, including to friends MA> such as Francis Regardie, Grady McMurtry, Bill Heidrick, and Jim MA> Wasserman, I have never felt the _Book of Coming Forth by Night_ to be a MA> mandate to go out and "conquer" the traditional Thelemic community. Since the OTO and the ToS appeal to different types of individuals, I think of the likelihood of a "turf war" between our organizations to be small. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Navitae 5 Oct 94 12:53:00 Subject: Re: liber al prophecy UpdReq Thus said Navitae to Josh Norton concerning Re: liber al prophecy: JN> I agree that it's probably not worth arguing about. My personal JN> feeling is that Thelema would still get along quite well if all its JN> "official" organizations were to suddenly vanish. Na> At this point, A.C.'s work is so well established that it might Na> survive the OTO and A.'.A.'.. However, this wouldn't have Na> happened without those organizations promolgating and defending Na> his work. I don't agree with that. Back around '70, Crowley's works experienced a huge surge in public interest. At the time, the A.A. didn't exist except as a thought in the minds of a few of his old students. The O.T.O. was at an extreme low ebb; the only promulgating any of the O.T.O.s did was to put an advertisement in the decks of Thoth Tarot cards. Weiser's, Llewellyn, the Sangreal Foundation, and a host of "pirate" publishers -- all of them out for profit -- deserve greater credit for spreading his stuff than any of the official Thelemic organizations. Na> Not under their control certainly, and at this point, not Na> necessarily dependent but someone would have to fill their shoes Na> and I don't see any organzations willing or able to do so. Just what shoes do they need to fill that the market won't satisfy? ... Q-Tip: A piece of advice from a powerful entity. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Ned 5 Oct 94 12:56:02 Subject: ideal/core self UpdReq Thus said Ned to Josh Norton concerning ideal/core self: Ne> I dont see an asymptotic approach to the ideal as presenting a Ne> problem. A Platonic ideal is theoretically inexhaustable, so any Ne> particular, finite identification is neccesarily short of total. Ne> The "response" or "feedback" might be of a passive nature Ne> inasmuch as it is inherent in the ideal - its manifold Ne> particularizations collapse into whichever single response finds Ne> resonance in the individual. The characteristic of feeding back to Ne> the particular could be a primary, or *the* primary, trait of the Ne> ideal. In fact, if it wasn't, how could humans apprehend it at all? Ne> If this doesn't make sense, well, you've only yourself to blame Ne> for appending the open-ended "Comments?" line. Ne> Ned. Well....I was directing that invitation mainly at Mr. Aquino. I don't want this discussion spreading all over the place, the way my byplay with the Setians usually does. But thanks for your input. As I said, these comments are more in the way of the traditional Socratic Stupid Commentator than they are a reflection of my own views -- amply expressed elsewhere. ... Now hold on there, Pilgrim! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Grendel Grettisson 6 Oct 94 10:51:04 Subject: book of coming forth UpdReq Thus said Grendel Grettisson to Josh Norton concerning book of coming forth: JN> JN> I don't know if the various Voudous are really similar in that respect, JN> but to this unknowledgable outsider's eye, they seem to be -- JN> except for the "toe the line" part. And the situation JN> is even more JN> screwed up in the regions where voudoun JN> gods are identified with JN> Christian saints. JN> Anyone else got an opinion? GG> Yeah. Why do you think it is the same in Voudon? In those sorts of GG> religion, the Loas/Orishas themselves (who could be counted as gods GG> anyway) act as go-betweens for the worshipper. This is GG> leaving aside the personal experience of deity that many GG> of these people have acting as a horse for one of these GG> entities. I'm basing that thought on the casual contacts I had with Carribean immigrants during the time I lived in NYC. Other than them, everyone I've known who talks about voudoun is European-descended, so their perspective is suspect. Those folks were mainly the equivalent of "regular churchgoers" in one or another version of Voudoun. (I don't know which.) Among those folks, the ecstatic experience was the main focus of their worship; the meaning of the experiences (what it signified about their relationship to the world and other people) was either traditional, or based on the interpretations of religious specialists. Seemed to me to have much in common with the Christian Charismatics. ... Eva, can I stab bats in a cave? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Serpens Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 6 Oct 94 09:16:26 Subject: Re: 'LEAVINGS' UpdReq Roseluv - 93. Sor. Helena's patented "make enough redeye to get the yeast going" approach is one approach. However, we are in touch with local wineries to see if the stuff can be obtained in that way. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Serpens Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 6 Oct 94 09:20:46 Subject: Re: PLANETARY RITS UpdReq Rose - 93. Re: the outer planets... since the "planets" in D&P are identified explicitly with the Sephiroth (and since I don't go along with the 20th century matching of the "new" planets with the supernals) I'd be out of my metier working in these lines. Saturn, of course, stands for the "manifest" influence of the Supernal Triad, as well as Binah, thus the source of creativity in the D&P schema. Chokmah as the Starry Heavens (rather than Uranus, despite the similarity of meaning) and Kether as the "Rashith Ha-Galgalim," the "Beginnings of Swirling," the Big Bang, both seem so apt to me I'd move in those directions if I were to design supernal "Planetary" workings beyond Saturn. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Serpens 6 Oct 94 12:50:08 Subject: Re: 'LEAVINGS' UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > Sor. Helena's patented "make enough redeye to get the yeast going" > approach is one approach. However, we are in touch with local wineries > to see if the stuff can be obtained in that way. Thanks! What have you been doing in the meantime? Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718