From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Grendel Grettisson 11 Sep 94 15:53:04 Subject: Eidolon UpdReq GG> Isn't it common knowledge? I've met the fellow here and Not to me, it wasn't. But when someone says they're going to publish something previously unpublished of Dee's I take note. 'sides the guy involved locally is damn nice to look at! Was surprised not to see any of you and yours at the B.O.T.A. Pronaos Installation yesterday. Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: White Owl Area: Thelema To: Alex 10 Sep 94 08:21:26 Subject: Re: Thoth UpdReq On <03 Sep, 16:32>, Alex wrote to TONY IANNOTTI : A> TI> (Of course, the values are in fact derived from Greek gematria. What A> TI> spellings are you using?) A> A> A> Ah, the problems trying to transliterate non-Latin alphabets!!! A> A> If I may start by setting out the translitreations I would like to use for A> those A> letters which have no English equivalent, namely ETA, THETA, OMEGA, PHI, [snip] Alex, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but here's the way it adds up. Thelema Agape ======= ===== Theta 9 Alpha 1 Epsilon 5 Gamma 3 Lambda 30 Alpha 1 Eta 8 Pi 80 Mu 40 Eta 8 Alpha 1 === === Total 93 Total 93 Hope that clears things up. Namaste, White Owl - Pedit Ver 2.2 ... ProTag - Version 1.0 Hm..what's this red button foNO CARRIER ...This copy of ProBoard has been unregistered for 127 days! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: StarChild Area: Thelema To: Richard Waddington 11 Sep 94 03:26:36 Subject: Aiwass Oasis UpdReq Hello Richard! RW> Aiwass Oasis has just relocated and is waiting to hear from you. Please RW> send any inquiries to the following address: RW> AIWASS OASIS RW> 2061 Peace Way RW> Turlock, CA 95380 RW> Phone: (209) 668-0910 RW> We are interested to hear from anyone, leave a message for me and RW> I will get back to you. Thank you. What kinds of inquiries will you support? Avalon has just entered this echo, but has several inquisitive and learned posters who'd like to interact with OTO, OTAA, Thelema, Golden Dawn, and/or any other legitimate CM grouping. I hope we can connect. BB Ed 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 9 Sep 94 08:39:36 Subject: The Meaning Of Thelema UpdReq 93! While it would be a gross overgeneralization to say that your observations are true of _all_ Thelemites, there was certainly enough truth to them to make them worth posting. One thing you left out, though, is the number of people who say "It was my True Will!!!" when confronted with the consequences of doing something completely stupid. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Navitae 11 Sep 94 05:04:56 Subject: Re: Qabalistic Cross UpdReq 93! N> The attributes listed in the so-called 'Qabbalistic Cross' comes from N> Psalm 99, verse 5, and are part of the Shachrit (morning) Torah N> service. The attributes assigned for the movements are not While I cannot comment on the Shachrit Torah service, I can say that after having looked up Psalm 99:5, and by searching with both concordance and "Bible software" for all the verses which refer to "kingdom", "power",and "glory", I can only ask where the author got his information (but you might also want to look at Psalm 145:11-13). As for the NT, those with explanatory notes, such as _The New Jerusalem Bible_, most say that "For thine is..." was a later addition and not in the original. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: KALZEN ENTROP 8 Sep 94 08:56:00 Subject: Re: THE MEANING OF THELEM UpdReq -=> Quoting Kalzen Entrop to Joseph Max <=- KE> 93 Joseph! JM> The Meaning of Thelema JM> ---------------------- KE> Thought it was hilarious. Most were so outlandish that I litterally KE> fell out of my chair. Sank yew. I must admit that it's a mixture of something I d/led from alt.magick some months back combined with a few original additions of my own. JM> WHAT THE THELEMITES SAY: WHAT THEY MEAN: JM> ___-------------------- -------------- JM> 4. It's beyond your grade. 4. I don't know. JM> JM> 5. Meditate on it. 5. I really don't know. KE> These didn't seem to far off though. Exactly why it's particularly hilarious to me. I suppose I particularly shy away from "secret" occult orders becasue the first time some poo-bah tried to tell me something was "beyond my grade" I'd probably throw up on hir shoes... JM> 10. That lecture was very 10. How many oaths did you JM> break informative. with that one? KE> That's another one that didn't seem too off at least to me. See above paragraph... JM> 20. Yes, "Liber Call Me Al" was 20. Tell us who wrote it so we JM> very witty. can kill him. KE> Can't say I've heard that one... "Liber Call Me AL" is a spoof on the Book of the Law. It's equally hilarious. JM> (Um, just kidding, folks... hehehehehehehehe....) KE> Mostly anyway.... Well............. yeah. Just don't want pissed off Thelemites burning Unicursal Hexagrams on my lawn.... "Really -- some of my BEST FRIENDS...." ... Try something less risky - like recording Enochian rap... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: Thelema To: JOSH NORTON 9 Sep 94 10:19:00 Subject: Re: BOOK OF COMING FORTH UpdReq -=> Quoting Josh Norton to Joseph Max <=- JM> Personally speaking, and meaning no slur to Dr. Aquino or to The JM> Temple Of Set (both of which I hold in very high regard), the whole JM> thing sounds like someone is "grasping" for a translation here. JN> I agree. Or manufacturing it to fit his needs. As well, the rest of JN> Liber AL shows a rather extensive skill at using gematria as a means JN> of confirming meaning. Nothing of the sort is seen here. Since, JN> according to the same document, Set is "free of the boundaries of JN> time", it's not like he would have been rushed designing "his" JN> message. Why such a sudden descent into cabalistic incompetence? JN> Without such a confirmation, seems to me that we would be as justified JN> in "discovering" a "translation" of directly opposite import. E.g., JN> something along the lines of: JN> "Damned fool creates hairbrained analysis. Bad karma brings down JN> Aquino; later generations mock..." etc. Um, may I point out that your version has much better clarity and syntax than Dr. Aquinos? JN> Aside from this, it seems to me that the differing tones of Liber AL JN> versus TBOCFBN argues against any true connection between them. AL is JN> primarily a magickal and philosophical document, revealing in great JN> detail the principles and powers at the root of the "aeon" it was JN> announcing. And it provides hidden confirmations of nearly all its JN> essential points. Which is why so many peopl (including myself) take it seriously. There are a few quibbles I might have with certain parts of it, and times when it shifts editorial points-of-view, but these do not negate or even detract from the other more meaningful sections. JN> TBOCFBN, on the other hand, is primarily political. And narrowly JN> political at that; much of it is directed solely at undermining the JN> authority of LaVey and setting up Aquino as a new, improved JN> replacement. Or, like the AL "decoding", designed to give Aquino an JN> older (and therefor "stronger") lineage than LaVey. This is the idea that bothers me: _why bother_? Dr. Aquino had more than enough "mundane" reasons to schism from the COS, and has declared them openly and logically in many forums. I don't happen to think that seeking "divine" sanction was even necessary under the circumstances, unless he was merely trying to impress the "flock" of the COS and get them to go along with him on the establishment of ToS. But ToS doctrine seems to discount the value of having sheep-like followers anyway; who other than the "sheep" are going to be impressed by a document such as TBOCFBN? JN> Except for "Xeper" -- which is far from a new idea -- there isn't a JN> great deal of _positive_ philosophical import in the document; just JN> rejections of various other religious and philosophical perspectives. JN> What use is a magickal current that is almost entirely defined by what JN> it is not? Not much, IMO. As you say, it more of a "declaration of independence" than anything else. Personally I would have been more impressed if it had been rendered in totally philosphical and political terms, without the "revealed wisdom" trappings. That context only detracted from the message of the book, not enhanced it. The references to Liber AL did not give it plausibility; in fact it seems to have accomplished exactly the opposite. As Bill Heidrick pointed out, that may be the main reason to shroud it in "occult secrecy", eg. for Setian eyes only! Dr. Aquino's accomplishments and ToS can stand alone on their own without "divine sanction". Too bad they try to rest it on this dubious foundation. JN> ... Self-referential tagline. JN> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 JN> -!- Courtesy of Silver Xpress JN> ! Origin: Star In The Circle BBS. To climb the Tree... (93:9030/0) JN> @PATH: 9030/0 9600/0 ... ...Yes, but you are taking the universe out of context! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718