From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Ar Aakhu-t 19 Aug 94 07:33:02 Subject: Christies Spare Catalogue UpdReq 93 Ar Aakhu-t, I called Christies in NY this morning (212-606-0400) and the catalogue of Spare artwork is sold out. It's the May 12, 1994 catalogue for South Kensington. 93 93/93, Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 19 Aug 94 23:45:00 Subject: Banishing UpdReq Hi Julia! Web of Wyrd came this week. Looks good! RD> I'm a Wicca-dunce...how do witches without any C.M. inclination RD> banish? just a 'close the circle' kinda thang? JP> Depends on the group, really. The traditional Gardnerian or JP> Alexandrian style would be to banish the quarters, and then JP> usually, just cut a gateway in the circle. Some undraw the circle in the U.S. Not in England? JP> Some people would banish the quarters using banishing elemental JP> pentagrams, some using banishing earth pentagrams, and others JP> just point in the general direction of the quarter :) Ever hear the wishy washy (IMO) 'go if you like, stay if you will' banishing? Not my favorite! Blessed Be, Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 19 Aug 94 23:48:00 Subject: Amended Casaubon UpdReq Hi Julia, JP> Can you let me have your address, as I copied the amended pages JP> of the Casaubon about four weeks ago, About how many pages is the amended Casaubon, give or take? B.B. Fir 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Navitae 19 Aug 94 19:50:04 Subject: Re: More books... UpdReq -=> Navitae sent a message to Tony Iannotti on 12 Aug 94 18:32:19 <=- -=> Re: Re: More books... <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Na> I don't share the court's view regarding the legal inheritance of Na> the OTO. I think it died and was resurrected (McMurtry's papers Na> were not approved by Germer, the Agape Lodge was gone by the time Na> Germer died, the lineage should have come from Germer since he Na> was the OHO etc). I'm going to go a step further into heresy (oh, no, it'll earn me an honorary Tyagihood!) and say that based on the evidence I've seen so far (and granted it's not a lot), Crowley himself probably lied about being named as successor. Given the relations between Reuss and him before Reuss' death, and given the last known letter from Reuss to AC was pretty vicious, and given the fact that it seems reasonable to think that if there had been a letter naming him as successor AC would have taken some care to preserve it instead of offhandedly mentioning that it existed but had somehow gotten lost, and finally, given that truth was merely a tool to be used when needed as far as he was concerned, it's my _opinion_ that he most likely usurped the position. NOT THAT IT MATTERS. Without Crowley, the OTO would have just been another shortlived curiousity. Na> The Caliphate OTO has earned the right to run the organization Na> and distribute the materials by virtue of it's work. I agree. Without Grady, the OTO would have been just a slightly less shortlived curiosity! Furthermore, the whole question of succession and lineage is vastly overrated in my opinion. "By their fruits..." one might say, or "Let success be thy proof" or as I've been known to say, "The proof of the pudding is in whether it puts pounds on your waistline." It think it's pretty clear (it is to me, anyway) that the Caliphate is the heir to the Crowley-era OTO. This doesn't mean that other versions aren't valid for their adherents, but that they are _different_ orders. Whether they have a lineage going back to Hugues de Payens is, IMO, a silly question. If we took that view, there hasn't been a proper monarch in England since the First Millenium CE. Love is the law, love under will. - V - ... another shall privily cast a crown of violets over thee; 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Nesert 19 Aug 94 03:19:46 Subject: Archives & History UpdReq 93! N> I don't remember the name of the temple, but it met N> in the British Museum. I believe it was Isis-Urania. N> He mentions it, in passing, in one or other of his books. If you could give me a reference, I'd be most appreciative. 93--93/93.. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Navitae 19 Aug 94 03:23:42 Subject: Will the Real O.T.O. Please Stand Up? UpdReq 93! Na> I don't share the court's view at all (they are not in a position Na> to be able to judge Thelemic matters), but I look at it from the Na> viewpoint that the Caliphate OTO has thrived (while to other OTO Na> groups are pretty decimated) and have therefore proven Na> themsevles. They weren't trying to judge a "thelemic" matter. They were trying to prove who had the better _legal_ claim to the name Ordo Templi Orientis, not who was the more sincere Thelemite, nor the rights of non-O.T.O. members to start their own Thelemic organizations. Suppose a group of friends decided to call themselves "The Roman Catholic Church" and elected a leader whom they call "The Pope". As long as they do this as a joke, no one will care much, but if they decide to publish material that regularly libels John Paul II, disputes his claim to the papacy, etc, and caused some real damage to the Church or confusion within the Catholic community, then the "real" Catholic Church would have every right to sue them. This would be a _legal_ matter, not a "spiritual" one. I hope this cleared things up. 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Navitae 20 Aug 94 09:36:38 Subject: Re: More books... UpdReq 93! N> The court transcripts are digitized and undoubtedly floating N> around the nets somewhere. Well, how about some file names to help me track them down? Or, if you already have them, how about a maildrop/PO box where I can send a blank disk and SASE? 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kevin Bold Area: Thelema To: Joseph Max 20 Aug 94 09:39:52 Subject: Re: More books... UpdReq 93! JM> I used to own a hardcover copy of Motta's printing of _Equinox V_, and he JM> did such a damn good job of commentary sometimes, but the same book was JM> filled with page after page of invictive against every other OTO connected JM> indivdual in the known universe... JM> A jerk... yeah, that's it... I never did have much use for people who are even more egotistical and abrasive then I am ;) 93--93/93... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718