From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 13 Aug 94 05:52:44 Subject: Re: LIFE, THE UNIVERSE, AND... UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Hiya Julia! > To a certain extent, but the group was a bit polarised between those > with a strong CM leaning, and those with a more Gardnerian Wicca > leaning. That polarisation has continued, with the CM-style ones > seeing each regularly even now, and teaching others their own > version of what they learned from us. Do you think the polarization had anything to do with the 'scatteredness' of the group? Were the core of people who stuck and became members of the private group from both 'camps' or mostly Gardnerian types/mostly CM types? You must be an ace manager--I can't imagine working with a group of people who were trying to work together, while split down ideological lines! > Yup, definitely a bond, though not a parent-type of thing. We always > tried very hard to make the group one of equals, so even though we > did most of the magical teaching, there was no hierarchy as such. > It's more a brother/sister kind of relationship, I suppose. Sounds good! I was reaching for a kind of 'bond that continues beyond the necessary boundaries of the technical realtionship' analogy, not implying a parent/child sort of attitude. Brother/sister works just fine for me! :> Have you run into people in your teaching groups who don't want equality? IOW, individuals who *want* to be told what to do, given specific instructions, led up the road? I'm wondering if such folx benefit from a little direction, and then take over the reigns after a little while--or if most of them tend to stay in the "tell me what to do" attitude. If you've had people like that , do you go ahead and do the Miz Julia thang for a while till they can take over, or tell them to get a grip and be a self-starter, or...? > I agree, but have come to terms with the fact that it's not my style > to run an open group. Someone else can have a go ;-) when I still had room in my apartment, was feeling healthy, and leading hatha yoga groups here, I think it was a similar situation. Boy, there were *all* kinds here! ;> Hmm...I got along pretty well with most of them too. The "Wiccan sufi" grrrl college student did start to grate after a while though...LOL! > Depends on the group, really. The traditional Gardnerian or > Alexandrian style would be to banish the quarters, and then usually, > just cut a gateway in the circle. Gardnerians have a blessing that > always ends the circle, but that's about it. Some people would > banish the quarters using banishing elemental pentagrams, some using > banishing earth pentagrams, and others just point in the general > direction of the quarter :) Ahh, so ka! Thanks for the explanation. :> I guess "if it works, don't fix it" is the operative cliche? ;> >RD> listening to rock/metal, with nothing to eat or drink RD> selling cups of *water* for two bucks--not allowed to bring >RD> ANYthing into the grounds with you--boy, do they ever rip ya!>, > > WHAT! That's obscene! Yeah it was! I understand "Woodstock 94" is ripping them even more majorly. <"Dear Eddie Vedder: Brown Field is unThelemic! Please do not play there. Fraternally...."> > Cross your legs and hold your breath for ten days? He's BACK! :> I un-crossed my legs and exhaled about six hours ago. I'm delirious. Heh! Those Anahata Incidents can be bad newz--one tends to make a fool of oneSelf betimes. ;> >RD> I've been practicing doing charts--I really, really, REALLY need >RD> the practice, I'm a complete astro-dunce--and by my calculations >RD> ;> she's got Mars, Jupiter, and Uranus in Scorpio, Taurus Moon. > > That makes sense.... nice having a Taurus Moon. I have that (in > fact, it's my only earth), and it does give strength and stability > in that area. I have an update on the "Myth of the Tidy Virgo"...some dude on alt.astrology opined that Virgos tend to go to extremes where neatness is concerned--but it can be *either* extreme; neat freak or total slob. Tam usually fits the latter category, but she can be a cleanin' unit when she wants to! She just cleaned the house for me, and did an excellent job. now she's busy trashing the place again--LOL! The 'either extreme' thang seems to fit her. I have a Capricorn moon--sheesh, I've got Venus, Jupiter and Saturn in Cap also--and Mercury, Saturn & Neptune in Scorpio. Balance? Hah!! ;> > Well, I was taught that you should erect the chart by hand anyway, > because that > way, you start to get a "feel" for it, even before the > interpretation begins. I must admit I thought it was > teacher-bullshit, but it does seem to work that way. You could > probably download an astro programme from the BBS though, if you > wanted one. They're not that rare :) Mostly, I'd like one to check my calculations, cuz I don't trust my math ability. But it's kinda fun doing it the "old-fashioned way!" Love is the law, love under will. Oops! P.S. Did you have a proper Bacchanalian blow-out for your leonine lesser feast this month? ;> 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Navitae 14 Aug 94 14:19:18 Subject: Re: More books... Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Navitae to Tony Iannotti <=- TI> assumed were working together? Na> Na> No way. Thanks for the details, I don't have any more for you, but will forward it if I come across any. TI> I don't know about that. I don't always share consensual reality TI> with U.S. Courts. I happen to agree with it in this case, TI> however...... ;-) Na> Na> Strange how the shoe keeps moving to the other foot. Na> I don't share the court's view at all (they are not in a position Na> to be able to judge Thelemic matters), but I look at it from the Na> viewpoint that the Caliphate OTO has thrived (while to other OTO Na> groups are pretty decimated) and have therefore proven Na> themsevles. How can you not share the court's view, when you do agree that the success of the Caliphate OTO proves it? I was not saying that they had any purview in it, just that they seem to be right...... ~~~ PGPBLUE 2.0 ... My karma accelerates for dogmas... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Navitae 14 Aug 94 14:25:44 Subject: Re: More books... Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Navitae to Tony Iannotti <=- Na> 1. Germer offered a Charter for a Lodge to Motta (first three Na> degrees). Only a member of the OTO can run an OTO Lodge. No evidence that he took it. I have heard, but cannot document, that Motta chose the AA over the OTO, because the AA was free. Na> 2. Germer stated that he'd given Motta most of the rituals and Na> asked what he was missing. He wanted Motta to have complete Thelemic archives, not neccessarily to use them. Na> 3. Germer and Motta exchanged correspondence about the 9th, Na> indicating that Motta must have had it already. Only indicates that he could talk about it. I'd be happy to talk about it with you, but it doesn't prove that either of us has it. Na> 4. Sasha Germer stated that Karl Germer was grooming Motta to Na> take over the OTO in about ten years (this was just before he Na> died). Could a non-OTO member have run the order? Sasha's perceptions have been shown to be pretty bizarre in other areas, I don't think her word is good enough for me. She wrote to Motta that he was to be the Follower. Which lineage contains that postion? (It was capitalised) Are you referring here to a post-dead-Germer letter, or a letter from before. (They tried to patch up their differences via corespondence, at Germer's behest, at least to Motta.) Na> My analogy is that the OTO functions as the vehicle for Thelema Na> to expand in the world, while the A.'.A.'. is the spirtual heart. I can go for that...... ~~~ PGPBLUE 2.0 ... Thinking is a momentary dismissal of irrelevancies. * Fuller 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718