From: Andrew Haigh Area: Thelema To: Navitae 3 Aug 94 09:58:42 Subject: Re: Archives & History UpdReq N> The OTO at one time opened it doors to regular Masons but the N> offer was not reciprocated. It seems unlikely that it ever would N> be especially since the Masons are not a magical organization. Not neccessarily, but there is magick in Masonry. Granted the vast majority of Masons would disagree on this point, but over the years my investigation of Masonry has shown that there is a lot of magickal potential to be found in the rites and symbology employed by them. Sure today's average Mason is about as magickal as a brick, but that in no way detracts from the magick inherent in their Order. And who knows what the future holds? it could very well happen down the line that the Masons will open their doors to OTO members, time changes everything, one day they may even admit women. Andrew Haigh @:|---- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 3 Aug 94 18:24:00 Subject: Bloom Rec'd UpdReq 93- Let me know if you run across interesting stuff on the Findhorn- something I always meant to look into but haven't gotten around to it yet. The only two things I've run across on their work these days is a friend's account (based on their books I think) that they did research into whether practices which we would probably call magical or spiritual had any effect on plant growth. Apparently not only did they, but they were able to produce unheardof success with their techniques; the other is a co-worker of my partner's who just got a Masters at... (forget the name- a alternate-type University here in Seattle) ...by doing some kind of work on application of the Findhorn ideas about organism to designing healthier social, administrative, and community patterns. Reminds me a little of some of the work by the wilder architects in their own field. I recall looking at the book, but at the time I found it New-Agey as well. I'd like to look at it again. 93/93 ,-----. . . / H \ -Ar Aakhu-t | H | bb125@scn.org | H | \ ===^=== / `._____,' 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 4 Aug 94 09:17:46 Subject: LIFE, THE UNIVERSE, AND... UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Howdy Julia! >RD> Hmm--I don't think we've mentioned the moon in a while. Should >RD> oughta change that subject line, perhaps! ;> > > Okay.... how about HAPPY LEO DAY! Being a Leo, I figgered you'd like the one I picked *almost* as much... . ;> > Different approaches at different times, basically. The London group > descended upon us virtually in a heap, with only a couple joining > later. Most of the real magical teaching I've done was with that > group, and they are still going today. Rufus has a couple of them in > his group, plus a couple of them work in Gerald Suster's group, a > couple are on their own, and there are overlaps, when they all get > together. Sounds like an ideal situation for group learning . Do you find that the scattered people tend to parallel one another in their personal work, rather than going off in very diverse directions, due to the early bond, or not? Do *you* still feel a bond with them, like a parent with adult children kinda thing? Many years ago, I founded a group with a young man who had no more idea what the hell he was doing than I did ;> and it's one of the most successful ventures I ever undertook...they're still going strong, with a whole new set of regulars, and hardly a one has any idea who I or my 'co-founder' is. I get the most incredible sense of satisfaction from that! Much more than if there was any sense of hero-worship going on--and I usually *like* to be worshipped. Probably because it's obvious that there's something enduring there...funny how the stuff I try real hard at hasn't been anywhere near that successful! ;> Owell.... > The Open Group in Sydney drove me nuts, because people who were not > really committed, just sort of interested, were in the majority, and > it became very superficial. Although there was a core group of about > 15 regulars, there was another 5-10 who dropped in and out, so we > could never really do anything long-term, or very deep. No doubt most 'open groups' have similar problems. Not 'problems' exactly, but I'm sure you know what I mean! Too bad, too, cuz I think open groups serve a valuable purpose--I'd hate to see sincere people get discouraged because they can't find anything that isn't closed to non-initiates . > Not that structured :) I believe a magical training should be gained > mainly in practice, fleshed out by theory. In my idiosyncratic > universe, real magical experiences count for more than other > people's experiences which can be read about in books. I don't knock > the value of books, but I think the actual experience teaches far > more. I agree for the most part--but I think that it's possible to read something and 'get' it, and also to practice by rote without *ever* getting it. For those who do, practice will natch deepen the understanding...unfortunately, sometimes those who don't, won't. If ya know what I mean--LOL! > I still make sure that members of our coven are able to perform a > creditable lesser banishing ritual, even if they have no interest in > ceremonial magic per se, because I hate sloppy ritual . I'm a Wicca-dunce...how do witches without any C.M. inclination banish? just a 'close the circle' kinda thang? The Wiccans or Wiccan-flavored people I've met personally all seem to have some variation on the LBRP that they use regularly--is that more a 'local' thing than a semi-universal? > classic example :) Some years ago, Rufus wanted to remove one of the > levels of > Hermetics, but I dug my heels in. He said it wasn't necessary, but I > felt it only "wasn't necessary" because it had been assimilated, if > you see what I mean. IOW, if it was removed, the system would > suffer, even though, once that level had been passed, it seemed > unnecessary. (Phew!) I know exactly what you mean! Should I be worried? };D > Always nice to have academic approval :) I'll be interested in > hearing more about the article if you find it. Ok--we *might* be moving soon , so I'll be digging thru my file folders and stacks of photocopied articles, pages ripped from newspapers, long-lost books, etc., hehehe! Hmmm--bizarre, how much good *magical* info I seemed to find while researching an article about crazy people! };> > Me too, but as I said, the overlays obscure the mysteries to people > who are > outside of the society or culture who initiated the overlay. It > makes perfect sense, and is very powerful, to those who understand > and appreciate it, but can just confuse the outsiders. An 'exercise' I was doing maybe two years ago at the 'suggestion' of my Beloved Teacher, was to 'interpret' all the *most* basic precepts of our tradition in a very personal, intimate way...in practice, it wasn't a beginners exercise at all! Led to some interesting insights about the ways that centuries-old stuff is still relevant to a 20th Century all-American Grrrl at times; at other times, when I couldn't find anything to grab hold of, it was a lot easier to leave em behind. Also improved, incidentally, my language skills, since I was at the time translating from 'the original'...sounds egotistical, but it was a true high discovering subtle linguistic nuances that seemed to change the flavor of the 'traditional' popular translations! > Yep :) Rufus was a percussion teacher, so we used a *lot* of > drumming in > our ritual, and it sure is one of those things that works really > well. But, I must admit it irritates the hell out of me having a > pseudo-shaman in a ritual, who thinks s/he is an ace drummer, and > they can't even keep a simple beat :( Maybe they're just listening to the beat of a...oh, nevermind! };D > Erm.... I've never actually read it :-} Most of our rituals > come from the Hermetic system, or out of my head :) I dug the book--even if one didn't use any of D&P's Rites, there's so much good info in there, it was *well* worth the price, IMO. :> > Never too old :) Go for it :) LOL...the concert was GREAT. It RULED! Tam wasn't feeling well :< so she didn't enjoy it as much as I'd hoped she would--I think *I* had more fun than she did. Masochistic tendencies maybe--sitting in a weed-filled, dust-choked field for ten hours listening to rock/metal, with nothing to eat or drink , and then three hours sitting in my car trying to get out of the parking lot--Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy! ;> Aside: I finally remembered to ask about the Requiem and was greeted with loud laughter and the remark "I know why you asked--I read the Thelema echo too." :/ Talk about an ego-buster, LOL! Ahem...let's see, what else... > Beats me... I've never met a neat Virgo yet. Picky, yes, but neat? Nope. An astrological urban legend? ;> Tami is the only Virgo I know well--I think she's *mentally* very neat and well-ordered, but physically --well, 'cluttered' would be putting it *very* charitably! };> > Probably got heaps of Scorpio in her chart :) I've been practicing doing charts--I really, really, REALLY need the practice, I'm a complete astro-dunce--and by my calculations ;> she's got Mars, Jupiter, and Uranus in Scorpio, Taurus Moon. Hmm, hmm, hmm! ;> I'm probably wrong though, I was never any good at math, and I don't have a computer program to calculate for me. :/ > Most of the statues depict Aboriginals and native animals/plants in > a symbiotic relationship. Some of them, the people are quite > literally growing from the land, and it's an awesome place. Sounds fascinating! Julia, as usual, it has been a pleasure. :> Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Ar Aakhu-t 5 Aug 94 07:15:44 Subject: Re: Bloom UpdReq -=> Quoting Ar Aakhu-t to Tony Iannotti <=- AA> Let me know if you run across interesting stuff on the AA> Findhorn- something I always meant to look into but haven't gotten Will do. AA> they did research into whether practices which we would probably call AA> magical or spiritual had any effect on plant growth. Apparently not AA> only did they, but they were able to produce unheardof success with AA> their techniques; the other is a co-worker of my partner's who just Yes, apparently remarkable success. I don't understand why the academic and scentific community has not really commented on their claims, they are so outrageous. I would have expected some denunciation or proof -- it;s at least as exciting as UFOs, astrology, and Nessie. (Well, maybe not as exciting as Nessie.....) `~~~ PGPBLUE 2.0 ... The SMART man who wins an argument with his wife, apologizes! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718