From: Fir Area: Thelema To: Ar Aakhu-t 19 Jul 94 07:04:00 Subject: Community Full Moon UpdReq AA> Well, yeah. Basically I'm going to talk about the AA> pentagram ritual, and demonstrate first an LBR, then a Star AA> Ruby, explaining what the various parts mean and do. That'll be neat. Is the participatory stuff the discussion then? AA> The only thing I think I need to be careful about is to AA> remember that some of the audience may not be experienced AA> enough for really technical stuff- just have to keep it from AA> getting too boring. There's likely to be a range of experience. The Community Full Moon sometimes draws people who have never been to a ritual before. AA> Are you coming? I'm planning on it, yes. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 20 Jul 94 21:36:00 Subject: Salutation of the moon? UpdReq Hello Josh! 14 Jul 94 15:05, Josh Norton wrote to Julia Phillips: JP>> Wasn't the Zohar thought to have been written around the 1st JP>> century AD? JN> 2nd century, I thought. Around then, at any rate :) JN> Whoever it was wrote while hiding out JN> from the Roman law, I understand. Yes, that's what I knew of it. JP>> In which case, there would have been a lot of Greek JP>> influence on Semitic races by then, so it's possible that JP>> Metatron and Sandalphon were both truly Greek, and yet also JP>> incorporated into the formal TOL (as opposed to the oral JP>> one, about which I suppose we will never know that much), JP>> right from the beginning. JN> I dunno. If someone could cite a Greek reference to these angels JN> predating the Zohar, I'd be convinced. Are there *any* Greek references to angels? I thought the concept of Angels was mainly Semitic, although beings with wings are (of course) really widespread. As to a Greek reference to the names, it's way outside my area of expertise, so I really have no idea. I've not encountered them anywhere else, or in any other context, but I don't read Greek, so this observation is based only on limited reading of secondary source material. I still find it curious though :) JN> Given the high volume traffic in the Mideast JN> during the preceding millenium, I suppose these names could come JN> from any culture within a couple thousand miles of Babylon. At least :) The lines of communication in those pre-xtian years were pretty effective, considering. JN>> Interestingly, Metatron is also attributed to Malkuth, which JN>> implies a degree of identity between the Daughter and the JN>> Cosmic Mother. JP>> Logical enough :) So where would Sandalphon come in this JP>> scheme? JN> Sandalphon is the angel of planetary Earth, as I understand it. Me too, but I wonder re the comment above.... are you associating Malkuth with Earth, or looking at Earth and Malkuth as two completely separate things. The only copy of The Zohar I have is Mathers' translation, in which Sandalphon gets only a couple of very skimpy lines. Not much of a clue there, really. JP>> What do the Hebrew names of Metatron and Sandalphon JP>> represent, do you know? JN> Don't know. My Hebrew dictionary doesn't give any meaning for JN> them, or any words that might be roots. Well, if we stick with the Greek, "meta" means "change; transcending or going beyond"; and "tron" means "an instrument". So, Metatron could be interpreted as "an instrument to change and transcend". "Sandal" is from Greek "Sandalon", meaning, "sandal" (wow!). Could be a sandal as in a foot covering (associated with earth, of course), or then again, it could refer to the santalum genus of tree, from which is derived sandal wood. "On" is derived from the Greek "ion", which is from the verb "to go", and means (literally) "going". However, as a suffix forming a noun, "ion" indicates an action, process or state, eg creation. A few thoughts for what they're worth :) B*B Julia ... Ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil ___ TagDude 0.86 [Unregistered] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 20 Jul 94 21:59:18 Subject: SALUTATION OF THE MOON? UpdReq Hello Rose! 15 Jul 94 10:43, Rose Dawn wrote to Julia Phillips: >> 10 Jul 94 12:12, Despite the fact that she is not a Leo, Rose >> Dawn wrote to Julia Phillips, who is: RD> Heheh, taking this Leo stuff pretty seriously, are we? ;> Well it *is* almost Happy Leo Day, you know ;-) RD> Since you're in the role of teacher, do you insist everyone learn RD> the traditional 'way things are done' first, before starting to RD> tweak them? Sort of.... but I'm more of a one for teaching about principles rather than traditions, as that way, people can identify what is a useful technique irrespective of where it comes from. Then, if the principles are understood, the tradition can be either used, amended or ditched, depending upon its validity for that person. RD> At the very least, taking a second look at a RD> tradition that at first glance doesn't seem to make sense, and RD> figuring out why it made sense originally, what, if anything, RD> changed so that it no longer seems to, and how it could still be RD> relevant, is a *bitchin* mental exercise. But fun :) RD> Seems like music is one RD> of very few areas where this wouldn't work for me...I can make RD> sense out of almost any ol' correspondence if I try, but music RD> either 'works' or doesn't! Must be too primal for logic... . Good point... I think music "speaks" directly to the magical soul (for want of a better word :-}), so it bypasses the "correspondence circuits", and gets right to the heart of it. I use music a lot in ritual, and to me, it's one of the most powerful means of changing consciousness. RD> Hmm RD> on traditions in Oz...come to think on it, it's a wonder *any* RD> tradition translates across time, place, and culture! Those that RD> do are some kinda kickin, huh? ;> Or, they are stripped of their superficial facades which restricted them to a particular location/time :) I think at root, all mystical truths are united; it's just that societies and cultures have overlaid them with their own local stuff, which obscures them to people outside that society or culture. >> Fer instance: in one of our "traditional" Summer Solstice >> rituals (i.e., I wrote it, but we've done it more than twice >> ), I had an invocation to the sun which included: ....at >> the height of your glory, I open myself that you may >> descend into the sign of waters of life... This to me was an >> obvious reference to the Summer Solstice in Cancer; that and >> the fact that it was a sexual rite, and I have Cancer >> ascendant ;-) But anyways, a member of the group here >> in Sydney copied that out, and was going to use it in a Summer >> Solstice ritual, which takes place in December in Oz. She >> hadn't realised the connection till I pointed it out, >> whereupon it obviously wasn't the right symbolism for here, >> though it was in Britain. RD> That makes perfect sense, but don't you think this could be a RD> case where a second look could engender a different, personal RD> association that works perfectly well for an individual in RD> Britain--or Oz--or Bermuda? Possibly.... never say never, IOW! If the astrological correspondence was ignored, and it was used simply as a sexual rite, then sure, the symbolism is fine. In the case I quoted, the line had been confusing her, and when I explained how it originated, she immediately rejected it as being inappropriate for the ritual/time planned. But in another set of correspondences, hey, it's a whole different ball game :) RD> LOL, it could present a bit of difficulty if the members of the RD> group have very diverse interests, tastes, and personalities! We do :-} Three of us share a love of classical music, two of us love heavy rock etc., and another is into pop-type music :( RD> Also--maybe those particular workings just weren't, uh, working RD> for some reason? ;> Seems to me that when things are really RD> clicking, one gets swept up in the current, and even something RD> mundanely inappropriate can seem very right. Very likely: the person in question had not connected very well with any of the planetary workings, to the extent that he was almost told not to bother to come along for them. He made a tremendous effort to get to the rituals (a really difficult journey, and a few hours getting home afterwards), but we would have got more out of a wet sponge standing in circle than we did from him. He's an intelligent guy, but just couldn't get these together (and they were pretty basic planetary workings). >> My partner and I did an *amazing* sexual rite to Mozarts >> Requiem once, even to the extent of both climaxing on the >> final "amen". To this day, I find it difficult to listen >> to the Requiem without certain thoughts pinging away in my >> subconscious... doesn't stop me playing it, though RD> Friend of mine is a big Mozart fan, in spite of being a RD> metalhead. You guyz must know something that I don't. ;> I'm RD> going to ask for the Requiem next time I visit. Go for it.... Wagner's not the only one who can write good, dramatic ritual music . Speaking of which.... Siegfried's Funeral March is pretty good for some ritual, if you like that sort of thing. >> I agree.. though my biggest irritation is when people try to >> limit deity/ angels/universe/whatever to purely human >> concepts. I have a fairly logical way of looking at it, which >> is that there is Universe, which is, to make things easy, >> broken down into various different aspects. In order to >> understand the whole universe, I examine each aspect till I >> understand it pretty well, and then move on to the next >> bit. As each bit is integrated, I understand more about the >> whole. Well, that's the theory, anyway ;-) RD> Do you think traditional means of doing this could be limiting on RD> an individual level, then? Depends on the tradition :) Some are ideal for exploring the mystery, and not limiting in any way at all. OTOH, some of the traditions haven't even twigged that there is a mystery, let alone developed a traditional technique for seeking it out - LOL! RD> ie, if I want to understand the RD> universe, shouldn't I examine each aspect fresh and seek to RD> understand it without learning someone else's conclusions, to RD> arrive at a *real* understanding thereof? I thought that's what I said :) RD> I'm flashing on a couple things; first waaaay back when ( ;> ) RD> when I was learning the LBRP, I had only the vaguest idea of what RD> the archangels 'should' look like or how they would manifest in RD> visualization. Before finding out how 'everyone else's' RD> archangels 'appeared,' I tried the same method I'd been using for RD> visualization: picturing a large black background, like a RD> chalkboard, and allowing my mind to paint images on the black RD> background. Some of that stuff was pretty intense! ;> I did do RD> the recommended research, but not until I'd tried it free form RD> several times. Basically, the way we approach things :) People are given basic guides as to the path, etc., but the images they find in their magical work are exactly that; their images. My vision of the Elemental Kings (say) bears little relation to the way that Matthew sees them. What is interesting is that one of the members of our magical Lodge in London suddenly started drawing pictures of the angels. They were "automatic" drawings really, and *very* striking. The sort of thing that once seen, never forgotten. Anyway, a few months later we were having dinner with friends in Wales, who are connected magically to us via Madeline Montalban. Lo and behold, on the wall in the dining room was a duplicate of one of the angels our member had drawn! Talk about a shock :) :) :) Anyway, it transpired that the drawing was an original, one of a set commissioned by Madeline of the all the angels used in her system of magic. The magical current obviously runs very strongly in this system :) >> Aww, shuffle shuffle.... blush. You know how to treat a Leo, >> don't you? RD> Hey--I'm a Scorpio. I don't offer praise unless I mean it. But RD> disregard all that stuff about having to watch your back. RD> Scorpios have an undeserved bad rap in a lot of ways-- I actually get on really well with Scorpios... always have. My brother is Scorpio with knobs on, and my boss is Scorpio with extra Scorpio. His son, who I work with from time to time (he's a graphic designer) is also Scorpio, so I'm surrounded by them. Hey, you might be interested in this.... when I was visiting a sacred sanctuary dedicated to Aborigines in the Dandenong Ranges in Victoria over Christmas, I went in to one of the shrines, and had a real image of a scorpion. I looked down at the foot of the statue, and there was a little scorpion guardian. He was quite happy, and a nice little creature, but definitely on guard. BTW, Web of Wyrd is actually finished, though I only have 40 copies printed so far. Hopefully this week will see the rest printed, so you should get yours before too long. The Sexism thread has come out really well (I think, anyway :) B*B Julia ... Out flew the web and floated wide, the mirror cracked from side to side ___ TagDude 0.86 [Unregistered] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Julia Phillips Area: Thelema To: Kevin Bold 20 Jul 94 22:28:02 Subject: Book Review UpdReq Hello Kevin! 17 Jul 94 04:26, Kevin Bold wrote to Julia Phillips: KB> I've already reviewed it in _Annuit Coeptis_, Vol I #4. You may KB> use it as long as you cite the source: Thank you Kevin, but I had to let Web go for printing without it :( I thought my message hadn't got through, or you were away, as it's been ages since I posted it. The good news is that Paul's arrived, so there is one review of the book. I'd still like to include this one in the next issue, though, as well as Pagan Times (which I start as soon as Web is finished) if you wouldn't mind. I'll send you a copy of Web to the Camp address, if that's OK. I think the sexism/OTO thread makes an interesting article :) Thanks for the re-post.... I'll take better care of this one :) At least this time it made it to my BBS :) B*B Julia ... USER ERROR: Please replace user and hit enter to continue ___ TagDude 0.86 [Unregistered] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fyrstar Area: Thelema To: Ar Aakhu-T 21 Jul 94 07:21:00 Subject: Bornless in the abrameli UpdReq 93 AR AAKHU-T Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Excuse my footprints but I heard whispers about the Bornless Ritual being in an edition of Abramelin and about its origin. In Regardie's book Ceremonial Magic part two deals extensively with the Bornless Ritual, its origin and its development. Regardie claims the "modern" version came to light in 1852, translated by G.W. Goodwin, entitled "A Fragment of a Graeco-Egyptian Ritual". If this has not been read, it is well worth the effort as it is a font of information on the development of this ritual. Where as he doesn't mention it, in regards to it being in any edition of "Abramelin", it was obviously used by Crowley as an invocation to his H.G.A. reworked as Liber Samekh and could have been published as Crowley's version of the Abramelin magick; but I have never seen any such edition. If there is such an issue, I too would be very interested in seeing it. If this helps any I glad, if this was already known then excuse my footprints for jumping into the middle of a conversation. Love is the law, love under will. In L.V.X. Fyrstar * SLMR 2.1a * Wander alone; bearing the Light and Staff. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fyrstar Area: Thelema To: Gregory Peters 21 Jul 94 07:21:00 Subject: RE: College of Thelema/T UpdReq 93 Brother Gregory Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. GP>Thank you for you message! Now, however, I'm wondering how the GP>C.O.T/T.'.O.'.T.'. notice got out into FIDO.... I was planning on GP>reformatting it a bit so that it would be easier to read ;> The ways of the electric oracle are strange indeed. :) GP>It is a pleasure communicating with a member of Star of the North -- I've GP>never had the opportunity to meet any of you up there. An unfortunate result of geography. :( GP>I'm afraid I have no GP>clue as to who you are behind the sig of Fyrstar other than that GP>you are in the T.'.O.'.T.'. I'm one of the original bunch up here in T.O. and have found myself thrust into the "blues" of authority. (big grin) GP>So how is the Star of the North doing? Do you have many members? Here at GP>Babalon we have had a rather rocky, but amazingly steady, progression. Star of the North has developed into a well trained group of people who definitely have made a noticeable link to the current. GP>Perhaps I'll see you at the Harpocrates seminar later this year? A few of us wish to come down, but we'll have to wait and see how things go. It's a little more difficult to arrange then a trip around the block. GP>My best to you, and everyone one up north. Oh, do you have an internet GP>address? I prefer to use my netcom account for most things, which is: GP>gpeters@netcom.com Unfortunately I'm not on the internet yet, but when I do you 'll be among the first to know. Once again fraternal greetings from Star of the North and I'll pass on yours to the rest of the group. P.S. at this time I prefer to remain "cloaked" as a matter of convenience while I surf the "electronic waves", although its not a big dark secret or that difficult to figure out. (mysterious grin) Love is the law, love under will. Yours in L.V.X., Fyrstar * SLMR 2.1a * ..blessing and worship to the prophet of the lovely Star. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ar Aakhu-t Area: Thelema To: Fir 20 Jul 94 02:16:00 Subject: Community Full Moon UpdReq 93- FF> That'll be neat. Is the participatory stuff the discussion FF> then? Uh, um, yeah! I guess... I'll have to yet figure out how exactly to fit into whatever the expectations for these events are... FF> There's likely to be a range of experience. The Community Full FF> Moon sometimes draws people who have never been to a ritual FF> before. Well, that'll be okay. FF> I'm planning on it, yes. FF> Good! Familiar faces will be good! 93/93 ,-----. . . / H \ -Ar Aakhu-t | H | horizon@fry.halcyon.com | H | \ ===^=== / `._____,' 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Julia Phillips 21 Jul 94 06:16:28 Subject: Eric Ericson UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JP> the identity of author Eric Ericson. A resounding JP> silence slapped me around the face, but I'm just re- JP> reading "Master of the Temple", so thought I'd give it JP> another go now :) Anyone know? the psychologist? Love is the law, love under will. --k-- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Frater H.A.C.A. Area: Thelema To: All 22 Jul 94 11:42:40 Subject: Portal Signs Sent UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. I have a question concerning the Portal signs as used in the Greater Ritual of the Pentagram. I have read that to invoke spirit (active or passive) you rend the veil, and to banish spirit (active or passive) you close the veil. I have also read that you should rend the veil for active Spirit Pentagrams(invoking or banishing) and close the veil for passives (invoking or banishing). I've always done it the first way. I'm curious to hear how the rest of you learned the ritual and perform it. Love is the law, love under will. Fraternally, Frater H.A.C.A. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718