From: Paul Hume Area: Thelema To: Barak 27 Aug 93 13:20:46 Subject: THE G.D. UpdReq Barak - B> Not to mention that Crowley was notoriously B> obnoxious and tended to rub people like Yeats the B> worng way. Hell - Crowley, given enough time, managed to rub EVERYONE the wrong way. Separating his neurotic behaviours from his teachings is one of the major hobbies of the skeptical Thelemite. Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Al Ohrins Area: Thelema To: Ismark 27 Aug 93 19:54:16 Subject: Re: KIDS/RELIGION UpdReq -=> Quoting Ismark to Commander Barbarella <=- Is> ...Everything doesn't happen for the best, it happens for us to make Is> the best of. That's pretty good. Did you come up with that yourself, or did you "liberate" it from someone else? In either case, I hereby "liberate" it from you, with credit given where due, of course. H'mmm, I wonder if I can make it fit as a tagline ... ... Death, like religion, is funny & asinine! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Al Ohrins Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 27 Aug 93 20:04:14 Subject: Re: THE G.D. UpdReq -=> Quoting Paul Hume to Barak <=- PH> Hell - Crowley, given enough time, managed to rub EVERYONE the wrong PH> way. Separating his neurotic behaviours from his teachings is one of PH> the major hobbies of the skeptical Thelemite. Paul, sometimes you're wonderful. ROTFL! ... Syphilis (n): One of the many ills which came from Pandora's box. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Al Ohrins Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 27 Aug 93 20:35:20 Subject: Re: multiple truths Rec'd UpdReq CP> The Neo-Pagan Systematic Buzz Phrase Generator CyberTantricQabalistic-SynchronisticGnosis, I can only take this stuff in really teeny doses. ... Klansperson (n): A racist who is not a sexist. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Al Ohrins Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 27 Aug 93 20:53:28 Subject: Re: THELEMIC LIT 101 UpdReq RD> my nose in I and II for a while. (btw, are the Comments in Class A? I RD> wondered because AC's own views changed...) The "Comment", signed Ankh-af-na-khonsu, is in Class A. It is only several paragraphs long. I'm sure you've seen it: it goes with every Book of the Law, usually appearing after the third chapter. The "Commentaries" are another story. The first commentary is published in Equinox Vol. I, No. 10. It consists of short "notes" to each verse. The second commentary was not, I believe, published in AC's lifetime. It has, however, appeared in print from 93 Publishing (which version also contained the Eq. I, 10 version), Isreal Regardie's "The Law Is For All", and Marcelo Motta's "The Commentaries of AL". This commentary is in Class B. ... Syphilis (n): One of the many ills which came from Pandora's box. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Donald C. Ives Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 26 Aug 93 09:59:12 Subject: Re: LOL UpdReq -=> Quoting Rose Dawn to Donald C. Ives <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> Probably more than half, dont'cha think? Which is the likeliest RD> explanation for the attitude. Personally, I wasn't raised in a RD> religious home, so I don't have the attitude that it's hurt me. But, RD> in my opinion, part of becoming a mature individual is to take RD> responsibility for my own actions, here, today, no matter WHAT has RD> hurt me in the past. Hey--aces and eights are still a full house, RD> right? ;> As for imposing beliefs, III:42 says "Success if thy RD> proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" Sounds like good RD> proof to me--if you seek sorrow, go for it. I prefer "Beauty and RD> strength, leaping laughter and delicious languor, force and fire, are RD> of us." I'll stop quoting now. ;> I guees I'll have to get a new (Liber Legis). The one I have is in long hand. I can't read it very well. I like that III:42 that is as it should be. Yes probably more than half. I was force feed my parents beliefs. I tried I really did I just didn't get it. I'm talking real fundumental stuff. It took years to get over it. Strangely enough it was a Chatolic Priest who help me get over it. He asked what I thought of my parents God. Like would I send my mother, brother, sister, or friend to hell forever for something. My answer was no. My conclusion was does this make me better than God? No this means this God is an asshole, and I'm not going for that. No, I stop believeing I was going to burn for not believeing in this chump some time back. I guess I still have some resentments, and sometimes I rag alittle myself. I have always felt though that my way didn't have to be your way. I have meet some really decent Christian people, and that works for them. So be it. But, if they start than Hell Fire, and Damnation stuff I get hot. Someday I hope to work that out. I've been on a spirital journey since I was about 17. I've seen alot of different point's of view. I saw some of God in all of them. I like where I am today, and it's because of them I'm here. Does that make sense? Sorry about being so long winded. 21yrs of religion kind of comes out sideways every now, and again. Yes there has been times when I said I've had enough, and dropped all religious dogma, and simply beliefed in God. I guess I need struture though cause I always come back to religions. RD> I do understand what you're saying, but there's not much you can do RD> BUT be patient! Of course, netmail, snail mail, and multi-line boards RD> can help in the interim. ;> I think mabye I had the wrong P.O. Box number. Maybe my letter didn't go through, and they didn't return it. Lot's of maybes huh? ;) I'll be patent. However it's not one of my vertues, if I indeed posses any. RD> And see what happens? Those with eyes to see & ears to hear pay RD> attention! Seems to attract more people than standing on the RD> streetcorner yelling about hayull-fire and damnation, threatening and RD> prosletyzing (sp??) ever has. You know I have been through alot of looking as I mentioned above. I have been through so many different belife systems. I always have ended up short in the long run. I've thought I may have to do a religion of my own. I'm not sure I can explain what it is I'm trying to say. I have seen things in my minds eye that were differnt. That spoke of a New Age were the only limits were in your mind. I know what V.V.V.V.V. speaks of. I have felt it as well. I have seen the begining, the end, and some of whats between. I think at times I'm what doctors call insane. Do you know what insanity is? It's a collective hunch. ;) Anyway, I like what I have found in Thelema in it I have found truths that work for me. Hope I didn't make you dizzy.... LOL ;) > ... This tagline is just for Rose Dawn.... RD> RD> Gee, I feel so special! ;> You are, you should! RD> Love is the law, love under will. Talk to you later... I'll call the multi-Line someday soon. love is the law, love under will. Don ... I know not what I am, just that I am.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Larry Starch Area: Thelema To: Barak 27 Aug 93 16:12:10 Subject: THE G.D. UpdReq It seemed Crowley rubbed EVERYONE the wrong way. I love Crowley's teachings, he knew what he was doing. But it was quite obvious that he had a problem practicing what he preached. Let nothing control you was something he liked to try to teach, yet he couldn't break his heroine addiction, yes he was addicted and he did admit it. He wrote a book sort of a diary of a time he tried. He admitted that he failed. As Colin Wilson said, If we ignore the man and just follow the teachings. I agree His personnal life should have nothing to do with the teachings he brought. s 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 27 Aug 93 00:30:42 Subject: THELEMIC LIT 101 UpdReq 93 rose dawn! RD> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Kayla! RD> RD> I hadn't read any of the "Comments" on AL before reading the Book itself, RD> so I was really going more by "instinct" than by any yes, i read AL first without the commentary. i don't think i would initially have had the patience to read the commentary and the book the first time through. i think that it's initially best read without the commentary myself. RD> deep feeling of understanding, and without the benefit of Crowley's RD> comments (or anyone else's for that matter). I found RD> words and images from all three chapters that struck RD> chords in me, but III was the one that really gave me a RD> gotten used to 'relating' with the Siva/Kali aspect, RD> which III definitely (for me anyway) speaks to. interesting! i found chapter 1 was the chapter that initially spoke to me the most. BTW, i think you have a good point regarding your siva/kali background and how you related to chapter 3. though i am curious how you felt when initially reading stuff about kali. (i know that for myself, since i am just starting to read the tantric/hindu literature, i can relate to the destructive aspects much more easily due to my thelemic background. don't think i would have understood it in the same way at first encounter, without the thelemic background.) RD> your other hand. Personally, I'm glad that I read it RD> without benefit of Comments first--I think it's a good RD> way to get some ideas about yourself and your attitudes RD> & interpretations, although I'm glad that I also have oh no! it's the crowley rorschach test! RD> RD> Same with me, in some cases. I'm having trouble with "The Book of Wisdom RD> & Folly" right now! ;> Actually, I don't seem to RD> have trouble with some of the 'troublesome' stuff that i initially HATED the book of wisdom or folly. i had a really hard time dealing with those long-winded sentences! i still think that it's poorly written, but i do find it really valuable now. what kind of problems are you having with it? (uh-oh, just remembered that one of the things crowley wrote that pissed me off the most is in that book. could it be that what you are having a hard time with relates to some of the things crowley says about women in there? ------still pisses me off! it's crowley at his sexist worst.) RD> bothers a lot of other people tho. Could be because I'm used to looking RD> at things in a certain way, or possibly, as has been RD> suggested, I'm just a twisted individual. ;> I don't RD> think being a Thelemite necessitates that a person i think that the tantric background that you have probably has alot to do with it. as i'm getting into the tantric lit. more and more, i'm finding the philosophies to be much aligned. (will continue this in next post. out of space again!) ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Rose Dawn 27 Aug 93 00:42:54 Subject: THELEMIC LIT 101 II UpdReq hello again, RD> bothers a lot of other people tho. Could be because I'm used to looking RD> at things in a certain way, or possibly, as has been RD> suggested, I'm just a twisted individual. ;> I don't RD> think being a Thelemite necessitates that a person RD> accept Crowley as the be-all, end-all..he had his RD> opinions (didn't he just!) and I don't agree with all RD> of them. He had his faults! ;> You HERETIC You! crowley? faults? nah....i don't know what you're talking about! really though, i've often wondered if i had had a chance to meet crowley in person, if i would have even liked the old guy. (i kind of suspect that i wouldn't have, but who knows.) crowleyites really bug me. RD> some degree, and Chapter III certainly brought out a RD> response in me. In the interests of "balance" I'm RD> trying to keep my nose in I and II for a while. (btw, RD> are the Comments in Class A? I wondered because AC's there is a class a commentary on AL, but it's probably not the comments you're referring to. the class A commentary is the one about "centre of pestilence". it's a very short commentary. i've often thought that crowley didn't really follow out aiwass' instructions regarding the commentary. RD> back up for a couple days then go back a little at a RD> time. Ha--that's the plan--I'm sure I'll tear into RD> everything again until the process repeats. ;> You RD> know how it is, reference is made to another document, RD> so ya have to grab that right away, which in turn leads RD> to yet another document, etc. etc. etc. Also, my yes, i usually end up sitting in a huge pile of books! one thing leads to another and another. next thing i know, i have my entire library dumped out on the floor! RD> (and vice-versa) And of course, I'm taking ye olde big RD> first step soon...! congratulations! i got the papers that you mailed me today and you mentioned that. i think that that is the OTO event that i mentioned to you when i said that i thought i would be in the area in november. (Quelle coincidence!) i'm looking forward to meeting you! thank you so much for sending the papers out! i'm about half way through the first tart paper, and really enjoying it, as are a few of my friends who have also been reading it. ttyl & 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 27 Aug 93 00:57:38 Subject: GBS Rec'd UpdReq 93 christeos pir, CP> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KB> what is the GBS file you were referring to ? CP> "The Gospel According to George Bernard Shaw." It's pretty long (for a CP> file, I mean). I got my copy -which I haven't printed out yet- from CP> BaphoNet's files. Basically AC's critique of Shaw's defense of Xianity, CP> and of Xianity in general. oh, okay, i have that. wasn't familiar with the abbreviation though. thanks, 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Thelema To: Christeos Pir 24 Aug 93 17:50:38 Subject: Re: T.O.T. Rec'd UpdReq Hmmm. The "SOlar-Phallic" thing A.C> had was the Sun as Tiphareth which is actually (oddly enough) Neuter! (Look at the Middle Pillar and Go Kether = Yod, Da'ath = Heh, Tiphareth = Shin, Yesode = Vahv, and Malkuth = Heh.) Ergo, the Moon become Masculine! }B-> >>Evil Victor do screwy things to his Qabbala and nothing comes out right!<< I don't think it was a "Male-Over-Female" thing A.C. had going but, instead, was a "Male Projecting / Female Recieving." It was kinda like saying a proton is "positive" and an electron is "negative." Both are convenient to describe what appears to be going on but the two states aren't quite _THAT_ way. (Babbeling, bear with me a moment.) In other words, be the Sun and the planets revolve around _YOU_. Be the moon and you revolve around the _SUN_. Every man and every woman is a star. The Sun is a star and all stars are Suns. Anything less and (do I dare say it) it all becomes highly "Un-Theleeeeeemic!" }B-> Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Richard Kaczynski 26 Aug 93 09:15:32 Subject: Re: THE G.D. UpdReq 93 Richard, > I don't think any of them do a good job (otherwise I wouldn't be > writing another bio), but the best of the lot are probably: Thanks much for the recommendations. I'll see if I can find any of 'em. ;> And I *will* be looking forward to your own _magnum opus_ (no, not champagne swilling penguin!) while I read the rest (presuming I can find/afford them). Are you in the "research complete (I hope!) and pulling it together" stage, the outline/draft stage, or still in the "I'm sick of this man and I'm not even close to finishing by research" stage...? Actually, I'm projecting my own "stages" here; I just finished a project (nowhere near as ambitious as yours) and passed through all of the above to-ta dah!-final draft. ;> Thanks again for the titles. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Richard Kaczynski 26 Aug 93 09:25:04 Subject: Re: THE G.D. UpdReq Hi again Richard, (Or should that be Mr. Kaczynski, Sir!-?) > I agree. Even reading over his diaries (which, for most people, are > private things), you really get the sense that he expected them to > be read by others. Do you find that to be consistently true throughout? Obviously, I haven't got (and to be perfectly honest, don't really want--I'm content to allow others to do the research and reap the fruits of their labors in some cases) anywhere near your familiarity with Crowley's diaries, but having seen "snippets" from various years, I had the personal feeling that this expectation of public consumption style of writing came later on. Some of the "earlier" material, while not as clearly detailed as the latter, was much more intriguing to me...I got the sense that he was recording things magical and mundane much the same as anyone would, and the little I've read has been interesting indeed (much more so than the less fragmented, more 'cleaned' entries of later years). Have you found this to be so, or do you get the sense that he was actively anticipating wide-scale reading of the diary material throughout? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: Thelema To: Todd Sahba 26 Aug 93 09:44:32 Subject: Re: KIDS/RELIGION Rec'd UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Todd! > Who knows, if she does go that route maybe she'll shake things up a > bit? Most of the Christian church's I've seen could use a bit of that. Well, she *is* still a kid after all. ;> But she's ignoring Billy Graham's "A good Christian does not question" bit and asking all kinds of things. Some of them are wholly personal (i.e., MTV), others a bit more thoughtful. I'm not sure if it's an "increase our ranks at any cost" scam, or if the head mucky-muck of the church is actually more open than the 2nd guy on the totem pole, but the 2nd guy (he just became a 'Minister' as opposed to a 'minister'--these initiatory systems confuse me! ;> ) is a hard-liner while the Minister Numero Uno seems rather open-minded. She asked them, for instance, why they felt that Tarot cards were bad (well, that *is* pretty personal, she loves Tarot decks and hopes to start a collection). Minister-2 was horrified and told her that even reading the astrology page in the newspaper was a SIN! because Moses gave explicit injunctions against divination in any form; while Minister-1 told her that if she personally felt something was wrong and did it anyway it was a sin, otherwise it wasn't. (Which I feel actually isn't a bad definition of sin from a Christian standpoint!) She then asked Minister-2 about the 3 magi, and why they followed signs in the stars, and if magi means magician and magicians are all _de facto_ evil, how come they were led to Jesus, etc. etc. etc. He gave some stupid answer about how magi really meant 'astroNomer' not astroLoger and that they didn't USUALLY watch the sky for signs, this was a special case, blah blah. Then she asked him, if we're supposed to take everything Moses said so seriously, how come we eat pork chops and don't sacrifice bulls every morning. He told her to wait until they finished the Old Testament and then she'd understand. (They're just starting Exodus) Jeeze, was that long-winded or what? :/ Anyway, I wasn't raised in a religious home, so I had no real contact with any of this stuff...and I think the Bible Minister-1 gave her is absolutely fascinating! It has footnotes at the bottom of the pages, with different definitions of words/names/numerical values from different languages and dialects--this is great stuff, man! It probably has a lot to do with the fact that it WASN'T something I was "raised up on," but hell, I almost wish I'd gotten my nose outa the Upanisads and Puranas a little sooner! ;> Love is the law, love under will. RD 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Paul Hume 27 Aug 93 17:23:32 Subject: THE G.D. UpdReq -=> Paul Hume sent a message to Barak on 27 Aug 93 13:20:23 <=- -=> Re: THE G.D. <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. PH> Hell - Crowley, given enough time, managed to rub EVERYONE the wrong PH> way. Separating his neurotic behaviours from his teachings is one of PH> the major hobbies of the skeptical Thelemite. I'll get right on that, I promise -- just as soon as I'm done alphabetizing the Crowley books on my shelf. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... Ah! messenger of the beloved One, let Thy shadow be over me! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: Al Ohrins 28 Aug 93 07:56:36 Subject: Re: multiple truths UpdReq -=> Al Ohrins sent a message to Christeos Pir on 27 Aug 93 20:35:20 <=- -=> Re: Re: multiple truths <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. AO> CyberTantricQabalistic-SynchronisticGnosis, Wasn't that a song from Mary Poppins? Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... I gazed upon the Crystal of the Future, and I saw 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: Thelema To: All 28 Aug 93 08:03:46 Subject: Enochian Pronunciation UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Greetings All: I am in the finishing stages of writing an essay on pronunciation of the Enochian Calls according to Dee's original notes. It will run approximately 40 pps (8 1/2 x 11, single sided), and will compare the Geoffrey James and Aurum Solis versions with Dee's original, as well as discussing Donald Laycock's pronunciation guide, and giving a phonetically spelled version of all 19 Calls. Anyone interested in a copy when it's done, just drop me a line. Unfortunately, I will be forced to ask for costs -somewhere around $5- for copying and postage. I know that seems like a lot for such a small paper, but I simply can't afford to pay those costs for everyone. I will also be making the file available (in WordPerfect 5.1 version only -- no way to get all the formatting and footnotes, etc, into an ASCII file) on Arena of Anon and BaphoNet, and anyone is free to d/l and copy it from them. There's no restriction on distribution, just don't publish it and make a million dollars without cutting me in on the deal! Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... the guardians of the abyss shall bid the angels of the winds pass by. ... had I not the Power of the Sand-glass? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Richard W. Handel Area: Thelema To: All Thelemites 28 Aug 93 22:41:50 Subject: THE BOOK OF THE LAW Sent UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Greetings fellow Thelemites! Please read message #166 on the Thelemic Golden BBS if you are capable of accessing it. I'd love to hear responses on this board! Love is the law, love under will. Fraternally, Frater Hodie adsit cras absit 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718