From: Crat Area: Thelema To: Azoth 16 Sep 92 09:16:02 Subject: Achad Books UpdReq AZ>Their catalog (Sept.1, 1992) also lists _Egyptian_Revival_, but I've heard AZ>that they have an annoying tendency to announce books well ahead of AZ>actually having them available (case in point is their first and only AZ>volume of Agrippa, also some rare Dee material, also some of Gerald AZ>Massey's work, also.....) QBL & Anatomy really are available now, and are What does Kessinger have of the Dee material? ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Krei Keire Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 16 Sep 92 17:08:02 Subject: Right & wrong UpdReq ..Gods created the form of Josh Norton ..To Vitriol they cry out "Right & wrong" VI>Have you seen the Randomized Buzz-Phrase Projector at work? Now I wanna see this. I want to throw AL into it, just for fun. JN> A friend of mine in the DHHS policy office once said that JN> bureaucratese was the art of saying "No" in the most long-winded and JN> confusing way possible. Well, I'm definitely not bureaucrat material. I have a bad habit of expressing that answer in a very long-winded, over-done, lengthy, etc etc answer .... that sounds exactly like "NO. End of Subject." ... Open mouth, insert shoe store, echo into eternity. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Scott Gilliam 16 Sep 92 09:16:02 Subject: Traffic UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Scott, thanks for the response. I don't really have a reply, but I know from experience that it's a drag to send out a part of yourslef and get no reaction. ;-) Just wanted to let you know I share your obvious enthusiasm that shines through your messages. Keep on keepin' on! One suggestion: if you have the capability, it'd be helpful if you would include brief quotes from the messages you reply to, so we can follow the thread better. (At any given time, one might be coarrying on a half-dozen different conversations at once!) Love is the law, love under will. ... The eternal gates' terrific porter lifted the northern bar: ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Scott Gilliam 16 Sep 92 09:16:04 Subject: Re: work, will...wha? UpdReq -=> Scott Gilliam sent a message to Vitriol on 09-13-92 22:43 <=- -=> Re: Re: work, will...wha? <=- SG> Vitriol, could you draw up some favorite methods. sayings SG> of yours and how they may relate to the Thelema World view, SG> I am really interested in Zen and other philosphies which Hmmm... I'd prefer to give you the resources to "drill your own wells" into those stores, rather than to give you a version that is filtered through my own perspective. I can recommend some titles as a start, and then if you want to pursue this further, I'd be happy to do it here if others are interested, or via E_Mail or US Snail if they're not. (BTW, there's a few Buddhist echos around, too.) Tao Te Ching, Lao Tsu (My personal favorite is translated and illustrated with beautiful photography by Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English, Vintage Books (Random House) ISBN 039471833X) The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are, Alan Watts (There's several editions out, mine is from Vintage Books (Random House) ISBN 0394718534) I Ching (My favorite is the Wilhelm translation, though the Blofeld isn't bad. ISBN depends on the version) The Upanishads (Another one with a number of different translations, some better than others. My own is by Swami Prabhavananda and F. Manchester, though there may be others as good or better I don't know about. This one's by Mentor Books, I don't have the ISBN -though any bookstore could tell you- since my copy was printed in '57.) Creative Meditation and Multi-Dimensional Consciousness, Lama Anagarika Govinda (Tough going, but worth it. (Kinda like AC's stuff, eh?) Published by Quest Books, ISBN 0835604721) The Blue Cliff Record (Excellent sourcebook on Ch'an Buddhist inner teaching and attitude. Shambhala, ISBN 0394732707) The Tao of Physics, Fritjof Capra (Bantam, ISBN 0533108689) The Roots of Coincidence, Arthur Koestler (Vintage, ISBN 0394719344) Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid, Douglas R. Hofstadter (Vintage Books, ISBN 0394745027) That ought to be enough for a start, at least in the Oriental field! ;-) ... Degrade first the Arts if you'd Mankind degrade ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 16 Sep 92 09:16:06 Subject: Traffic UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Vitriol on 09-14-92 11:47 <=- -=> Re: Traffic <=- JN> That's easy -- just train yourself to look at things in one or more JN> non-dual ways, and then try to decide which is more "real". Bet you JN> wouldn't be able to decide! That won't solve anything - I'd just be substituting one kind of grid for another. I still won't see the whole. JN> Sounds like fun. Not exactly. Bloody disorienting as far as trying to function in the everyday world. How do you reply to "How are you?" when there is and isn't a "you", and you don't know "how" that person might or might not be, etc. "Three tons of flax" might raise a few eyebrows. ... he who bites without praying is only a beast. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Scott Gilliam 17 Sep 92 23:37:46 Subject: Traffic UpdReq I think that the dualistic model of thinking largely has its root in the binary yes-or-no logic which has dominated western thought for centuries. Such a map is not without its uses, but it, like any other map, becomes a hindrance when it is the only map used. Oddly, by its very nature, a logical system based upon a black-and-white structure carries a greater potential to be limiting than most. Someone locked into such a mode of thinking will deduce there is a "right" logical map and a "wrong" logical map, placing hir own map in the first division. Multiple "right" systems are not accounted for by the nature of the system. Regarding such a view in magick, I really don't see a whole lot of it in Crowley, nor do I think it is a useful system to build one's magickal worldview around. Each of the "gods", by its very nature, possesses both positive and negative qualities- Set is every bit as crucial to the equation as are Isis and Osiris, and even if we don't find the need to invoke him as often to get the job done, we shouldn't see him as an enemy to be defeated and eradicated. I recall an evening about a year and a half ago during which I was trying to get to know a woman who had caught my fancy. Another fellow, quite drunken and obnoxious, occassionally interjected comments into our dialogue, and I was convinced he was (magickally speaking), THE DEVIL, and I felt the impulse to pummel him. His presence eventually sparked a quite fertile conversation between the lady in question and myself, and it later struck me that if he hadn't have been there, we might not have hit it off so well. However, the lady in question never allowed me to collect on the lunch date she promised, and in retrospect I feel that perhaps my first impulse was correct. :-) 93 93/93, Steve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steven Craig Area: Thelema To: Scott Gilliam 17 Sep 92 23:50:54 Subject: Right & Wrong UpdReq SG> so many times I see New Agers crying out, Don't SG> analyze ! Shut out the mind! It is the haphazardly SG> imprinted unconcious of which they speak and they SG> fall slaves to it. My sentiments exactly. It seems that our SJ> government, rather than trying SJ> to bring the people together, wants to make some SJ> people untouchables. I believe the "war on drugs" to be scapegoatism anyway. People are encouraged to avoid thinking about their real problems, and drugs becomes a government excuse for high taxes, police to busy to respond to real problems, hig officials too busy to respond to real problems, inability of the government to act on high unemployment and things like that. (Is anybody else old enough to remember when the "normal" unemployment rate was 3%, not 6%?) By making anybody who uses drugs a public enemy (at least if their drug of choice is not politically correct) the government can justify a whole slew of evils. SJ> I certainly agree! Morality demands a search for the least harmful SJ> means, and when a harmless means is not SJ> available, one must re-evaluate SJ> the end to be certain it is Will and not will. I would definitely use whatever means posible, including violence, to protect my person, my intergrety, or those I love. I am not into turning the other cheek. But if I want something, I feel obligated to assess not only the goal but the means, to reaching that goal. And the more complex the desire is, the more paths there are to reach it. At age 30 I had a desire to reach a point where I did not have to worry about imediate financial needs. (I was unemployed and had been doing minimum wage factory labor for several years.) I could have stolen money, become a hooker, sold drugs, sold vacuum cleaners, etc. I went to college and became a CPA, then went into the government, essentially enforcing "consumer, civil rights and public interest laws and regulations in the financial industry." I have achieved my goal while doing something which is relatively useful to society, at least the way we have it organized, and the goal also allows me fairly liberal amounts of time off to persue more esoteric studies. I believe that if a goal is worthwhile, there probably is a way to achieve it which is also worthwhile. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718