From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Merle Corey 13 Aug 92 12:22:00 Subject: Crowley's Age UpdReq MC> Thought I'd let you know. In 1904, AC should be about >29. I found this out because I had to research him for a >Live Action Game I a writing. He was 17 in 1892 (the time >setting of the game) going to Trinity College. >Extrapolating from there, that would make him around 29 in >1904. Thought I'd pass it on. Thanks for the info. How're things in Amber these days? * SLMR 2.1a * Jesus saves...Passes to Moses...He shoots... He Scores!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 13 Aug 92 12:35:02 Subject: Re: Tree of Life Rec'd UpdReq TI> >them to other boards that they deem fit. I'm also checking to see if > >BaphoNet has/needs copies. TI> JN> If they have them, they didn't get them from me. But I wouldn't mind if > JN> you sent them. TI> And I would be very pleased to get and offer them. Thanks! If Vitriol would prefer that I send them direct (you listening Vit?) just send me the address and I'll do so. Incidentally, just finished transcribing Frater Achad's _The_Egyptian_Revival_ and should have _The_Anatomy_of_the_Body_of_God_ (minus the diagrams) done in about 10 days. Interested? * SLMR 2.1a * "All systems are true" = "no system is true" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 15 Aug 92 10:45:04 Subject: Re: Enochian Temples UpdReq VI>JN> Now, having such deep roots, the formula has a tremendous amount of > JN> magickal power. And that power is not going to be diminished because > JN> of a change in "Aeons". It will simply change its superficial > JN> expression to adapt to local conditions, and then change local > JN> conditions to conform to itself. VI>My understanding of the theories on the accretion (if you will) of >human brains and consciousness, is that the previous layer is not >erased, but built upon; I also understand this is Achad's view on >Aeons? In which case, certainly the older, reptilian stuff (which IMO >a lot of so-called darkside stuff is working on) is going to still be >working, and probably working better than the newer layers, having >been there longer. It's just a question of getting those higher >layers out of the way. I'm not entirely sure of Achad's view -- sometimes he seems to say so, other times not. Certainly the viewpoint in _Anatomy_ supports an accretive view of the Aeons, and also of human evolution. But in _Revival_, he suggests that the level of social and individual evolution progresses or regresses during the Aeons depending on the position of the Aeon's ruling sign on the Tree of Life. I don't buy this latter idea myself. VI>(BTW, I don't agree with everything Robert Ardrey wrote, either!) ;-) Neither do I, but most of the disagreement seems to be in matters of interpretation rather than in basic facts. There was a footnote in Set/Horus -- I'm not sure it survived the conversion of formats -- that pointed out the factors I thought most significant in this regard. That is, the ways in which Horus and Set act towards each other. Set is often depicted as expressing contempt for Horus by throwing shit in his face, a common behavior among both chimpanzees and humans -- Americans usually use a sublimated version and throw cream pies instead, but elsewhere the original stuff is still preferred. Horus usually celebrates his conquest of Set by sticking his spear (an obvious phallic reference) into Set's mouth, or his anus. This behavior is still a common way for one male to express dominance over another -- particularly in South American cultures. VI>To my mind, we must take into account the minds and worldview of the >transcribers of such stories. If, as I've seen asserted most >everywhere, inspired writings are channelled throught the minds of >those who receive it, and therefor some of their personality will >color that message, then surely the messages of 5,000 - 10,000 years >ago will reflect the p.o.v of the people of that time. In which case, >the Aeon, or level of develpment of the race at a given time, will >indeed have an effect on their formulae, and their myths. To say that >today's Eris is quite dissimilar to the Eris of Classical Greece does >not invalidate the present view of Her. Heisenberg strikes again! Hmm. I seem to be hoist on my own petard here, to a certain extent, since I was one of the people arguing the point about "coloring"! What I am NOT certain of is how much the stuff reflected in IRNI qualifies as being "channeled". I'm in a chicken-and-egg quandary on this point. Most of the time, the IRNI stuff seems to be rooted in our nervous systems, rather than coming from an external, "divine" source. If that is correct, then the IRNI factors would tend to "color" the channelings of every age, rather than the reverse. The particular _expressions_ of the formula in a given era will, I admit, be in line with the p.o.v., the zeitgeist, of the time. This is what I was saying in the previous message, and my mythological researches tend to bear it out. Though more often than not I have been surprised at how superficial the variations in different cultures and eras have been. On the other hand, the perfect correspondence between the thematic elements of the formula and the fixed astrological signs would tend to support a "divine" -- or at least macrocosmic -- origin for the formula. But on the third hand (_three_ hands???) the astrological signs are themselves merely divisions of the Earth's orbit, and so have a close relation to long-term cyclic patterns on this planet, which in their turn have been imprinted on our nervous systems. Thus bringing us full circle to the first alternative above. So this may be one of those areas where the macrocosmic and microcosmic systems have become so perfectly synchronized that cause and effect are no longer determinable. In my mind there are a lot of mysteries still surrounding the formula; I observe its presence everywhere, but can't say with any certainty how it came to be there, or what its presence means in terms of the divine will. I can't deny it, but I can't explain it either! VI> JN> Osiris is a relative latecomer to [...] VI> JN> The aspects of Horus used in Thelema seem to be from a later >. >. VI>I was in the middle of a lengthy reply to this part of your >message when I was called away to dinner last night. On re-reading it >this morning, I saw that it was full of then-again-on-the-other- >hands, usually a pretty good indication that I don't know what the >hell I'm talking about. So, I'm printing off your message, and >putting it in my copy of Enochian Temples. If, at some later time, an >intelligent reply demands that I write it, I'l send it to you. No problem. Sometimes its better to simply Keep Silence. VI> JN> As for understanding the formula, the best way to go about it is to > JN> consider the Fixed astrological signs [...] VI>I got that, too. But why the fixation with the fixed signs. Why >not the Cardinals -- because of the present age being associated with >a fixed sign? My primary reason for using the fixed signs is that the details of the formula are as dependent on the ruling and exalted planets of those signs as they are on the character of the signs themselves. All three are necessary. The characters and rulers of signs in the other quadruplicities -- with the two _very_ important exceptions noted in the paper -- are inappropriate to the formula. Those two exceptions make the distinction between the way the formula applies to human interactions, and the way it applies as a formula or description of the initiatory process as experienced by an individual. Again, I have to say that I am only reporting what I see, without being able to give any comprehensive explanation for why it is so. This doesn't bother me greatly; it's better to have no explanation than to fabricate one that is incorrect. Though it doesn't do much for my "air of authority", does it? Besides, if I could explain it, then it wouldn't be a Mystery. In a larger view, the fixed signs are one of the two mysteries that pervade all the results of my Enochian explorations. The fixed signs are usually associated with variations on the theme that Man -- viewed as a solar creature and not as a kingdom of nature -- is not the microcosm, but instead must be considered to be the "mesocosm" or "middle world", the mediating principle between the macrocosm and the true microcosm. I speculate that the fixed signs have a close connection with this principle of mediation. The mutable quadruplicity would then connect with the true microcosm, where change is the predominant factor, and the Cardinal quadruplicity would connect with the macrocosm, where will, purpose, and causality are predominant. * SLMR 2.1a * Sic Biscuitum Disintegrandum 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 14 Aug 92 15:05:06 Subject: Re: The subject is Bear UpdReq VI> JN> The person either gets > JN> stuck in endless repetition of old stuff (like some professors and > JN> professional magick "teachers" I've met) or has to give up and go on to > JN> something else, despite knowing that the area hasn't been mined out. VI>Or has to make the lines of communication open for new messages from >Them. (No, not those giant ants.) New inspiration doesn't always help -- at least for me. We're back to the problem of channelings being colored by the knowledge and personality of the channeler. Even when I get truly new inspirations from magickal sources, I always get the feeling that there are huge areas I can't see because my nature doesn't resonate with them at all. If other people were seriously working with Achad's Tree, I am certain they would find applications I will never see on my own. * SLMR 2.1a * "Legitimate government" is an oxymoron. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Ian Kesser 14 Aug 92 15:25:08 Subject: Enochian Temples UpdReq IK>JN> I can't see a strong connection between Horus as presented in >JN> Thelemic works and Uranus as I know him. IK>Maybe, as with the Horus of Thelema and the Horus of IRNI, >Uranus-as-influence (planet) is somewhat different from >Uranus-as-Deity. Remember, the Movements of Uranus and the name for >the planet came not from the Astrological community, as did all >planets up until Saturn, but from the Astronomical community. They >were more concerned with mainting the greco-roman flavour of the >Planetary names than with matching the appropriate Deity to the >at-that-point sketchily known Astrological influences. I believe that Vitriol was speaking of Uranus-as-influence in this particular case. I'm certain he'll correct me if I'm wrong. The naming of the new planets is somewhat amusing to me, since the emphatically anti-astrology membership of the Astronomical Union's Naming Committee managed to agree on names that are fairly appropriate to the astrological influences of the planets Neptune and Pluto. In the case of Uranus, I would agree that the mythological name is rather inappropriate to the planet's nature, with the possible exception of the God's place as the first ruler of the heavens. In current cosmology, the first things to appear in this universe were photons and various other sub-atomic entities, which happen to be governed by the planet Uranus in astrology. Later, when the universal "temperature" was somewhat lower, genuine atomic matter (ruled by Saturn) appeared and became the dominant influence, just as Saturn overcame Uranus in mythology. But in other ways, the God is inappropriate to the planet. The God imprisoned all his children out of fear that they would revolt and overthrow him. The god was a rather nasty and bloody-minded oppressor. The planet, on the other hand, _embodies_ the principle of change and revolution. However, I think that in the long run, the magickal community will come to habitually associate the name Uranus with the influence of the planet, and the original god will become no more than an archaic curiousity. * SLMR 2.1a * Politically correct: a Maoist in Liberal clothing. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Ian Kesser 14 Aug 92 15:26:10 Subject: The Subject Is Bear Brai UpdReq IK>Unfortunately, I know next to nothing on the Achadian system, but once >I've had a chance to study what was sent out, I'll get back to you >with some initial thoughts. I'll look forward to hearing them. * SLMR 2.1a * [A]bort [R]etry [I]gnore [S]ay Kaddish 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Thelema To: Tau Ursa 15 Aug 92 10:55:52 Subject: ENEMAS OF GEBURAH Rec'd UpdReq Well..... If you are looking for a really nice enema to conquer, I suggest using Sol or Corona beer. No faster way on God's Green Earth to get drunk! ;) Seriously, though, what do you think of the impending world doom that is headed for us steaming on like a jugornaut? (sp?) I think that a cataclysm is nigh....... Maybe I ought to write to that new camp in Wisconsin, eh? ;) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tau Ursa Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 16 Aug 92 11:44:58 Subject: ENEMAS OF GEBURAH Rec'd Sent UpdReq Ther jigger is naught... However, watch the planet Your Anus. Enemas are a constant irritation there. I heard the juggernaut is nigh. However, I am not afraid to die. Therefore, I will try... to laugh loudly and not cry. otherwise...you may dilute the beer. 93 Tau 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Thelema To: Tau Ursa 16 Aug 92 12:40:56 Subject: ENEMAS OF GEBURAH Rec'd Sent UpdReq Lord.....! We need to get on topic or else someone'll see the little name of this thread and think we are babbeling about Bobby Tilton! ;) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 14 Aug 92 20:53:40 Subject: Re: New Falcon Pub. Show UpdReq In a message dated 12 Aug 92 08:12:18, Vitriol wrote: V> HEY: I was down to Rosey Cross (the store I mentioned before) V> yesterday, and they had two copies of the James. Two copies of the James??? Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 14 Aug 92 20:55:40 Subject: Re: Warrior Attitude Rec'd UpdReq In a message dated 14 Aug 92 19:19:20, Frater Almost wrote: FA> Exactly. I do have strong feelings for the 93rd year of this aeon FA> and next year as well. I wonder what'll happen. :) Pax. 93 Something wonderful It's the suspence that kills me ;) Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 15 Aug 92 23:13:40 Subject: Re: Warrior Attitude UpdReq In a message dated 13 Aug 92 08:13:04, Vitriol wrote: FA> I am now studying a mixture of Marshall arts with a few V> I like the 100 watt head with master volume, pushing a 4x12 bottom V> with JBL E112s, myself. I prefer the old Celestion speakers myself Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Karl Lembke Area: Thelema To: Phil Pope 14 Aug 92 08:14:38 Subject: Liber 777 UpdReq PP>Care Frater', PP> I saw in a message to you a little while back, that PP>some-one mentioned that they had put 'Liber 777' into a PP>spreadsheet .wks format. I have had a grunge fest in my PP>off-line reader and lost the original message. PP>Would you please let me know who this person is, as I would PP>be very interested in getting a copy of it in this format to PP>import into my database. I am currently working on this project. I have delayed a bit, because I need to sit down with my wife and go over the Hebrew with her. First, because not every bit is transliterated into English. Second, because I want to see what the straight translations are, and finally, because I don't trust Crowley's transliterations, having seen how the language gets mangled. (For example, "AMA" is the "Dark sterile mother", but the "Bright fertile mother" is pronounced "IMA". The Aleph-Yod construction is a fairly standard way of supporting the "long E" sound in Hebrew. There is some grammatical point about strong and weak vowels that I've forgotten.) And I'm going to have to find someone to go over the Arabic writing for me, or decide not to include it. (I wonder if Lord Morgan of Marionwood is still in the SCA? He taught beginning Arabic at Collegium once...) ___ X SLMR 1.0 X Press -- to continue ... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 14 Aug 92 08:14:04 Subject: Re: Tree of Life Rec'd UpdReq -=> Tony Iannotti sent a message to Josh Norton on 08-12-92 09:27 <=- -=> Re: Tree of Life <=- TI> And I would be very pleased to get and offer them. Thanks! To coin a phrase: The disks are in the mail! (I mailed 'em this morning [8-14-92ev], please let me know if you don't get them in a reasonable time.) * BWave/QWK v0.96 * Vir introit tumulum regis, invenit oleum lucis. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phil Pope Area: Thelema To: Tony Iannotti 14 Aug 92 12:07:00 Subject: Re: Liber 777 Rec'd UpdReq Care Frater, TI> The Equinox on disk is available from the Grand Treasurer General of TI> the OTO with nice labels and all in a professional turnaround time, or Do you have an address to write to for this and do you know what the cost for these disks is? TI> from me with scrawled labels on recycled disks in some unknown number TI> of months. They are also all file requestable at v32bis from me. Thank you for the offer but I cannot afford to file request from Australia. If the OTO discs are beyond my budget, I may take you up on the recycled offer. Tetelestai, Phil ... "My Lord, I have a cunning plan." ~~~ Blue Wave/RA v2.05 [NR] 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phil Pope Area: Thelema To: Frater Q.A.A. 14 Aug 92 12:12:00 Subject: Re: Liber 777 UpdReq Care Frater, Thank you for the reply. FQ> oriented BBS's. If you get the time, Tony's Board BaphoNet has most FQ> of them, along with all other sorts of Thelemic/CM goodies. Unfortunatly money to make the call from Australia is the problem, not time. Tetelestai, Phil ... My every path is shrewn with cowpats from the devils own satanic herd ~~~ Blue Wave/RA v2.05 [NR] 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 16 Aug 92 13:25:62 Subject: Re: Warrior Attitude Rec'd Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of 15 Aug 92 15:19:03, Frater Almost said to Vitriol=- (regarding Re: Warrior Attitude) FA> Hehehehehe. Would you teach me to be as funny as you? }B-) FA> (Sarcasm but, then again, if you are Vitriol, you initiated it! ;)) Come on you guys..... FA> Pax. 93 Yeah! Please! ;-) ... Why is my middle so soft when life is so hard? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 16 Aug 92 13:38:04 Subject: Re: Tree of Life UpdReq -=In a missive of 13 Aug 92 12:35:02, Josh Norton said to Tony Iannotti=- (regarding Re: Tree of Life) TI> And I would be very pleased to get and offer them. Thanks! JN> If Vitriol would prefer that I send them direct (you listening Vit?) JN> just send me the address and I'll do so. When it rains it pours. ;-) Apparently he has already sent them in the snail mail, and Nachash has file attached them netmail, so they are all set up in their own new area here and everything. Thanks! They are very good, and will get more study than the quick perusal I've had time to give them so far. And the gematria program is killer! JN> Incidentally, just finished transcribing Frater Achad's JN> _The_Egyptian_Revival_ and should have JN> _The_Anatomy_of_the_Body_of_God_ (minus the diagrams) done in about 10 JN> days. Interested? Interested? Spellbound! I am a long-time fan of Achad's though not as deeply critical of him as some. (I like Alice in Wonderland too, but not from a deconstructivist point of view.....) ;-) ... A religion is a heresy with an adequate army. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Vitriol 16 Aug 92 13:40:24 Subject: Re: Tree of Life UpdReq -=In a missive of 14 Aug 92 08:14:04, Vitriol said to Tony Iannotti=- (regarding Re: Tree of Life) TI> And I would be very pleased to get and offer them. Thanks! Vi> To coin a phrase: The disks are in the mail! Bless you madly! I hope you are not upset that they have already arrived via netmail from Nachash, but I will fill your disks with stuff and send them back. Just tell mne what you want. ;-) Thanks a lot! ... Why is my middle so soft when life is so hard? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: Thelema To: Phil Pope 16 Aug 92 13:48:38 Subject: Re: Liber 777 UpdReq -=In a missive of 14 Aug 92 12:07:00, Phil Pope said to Tony Iannotti=- (regarding Re: Liber 777) TI> The Equinox on disk is available from the Grand Treasurer General of TI> the OTO with nice labels and all in a professional turnaround time, or PP> PP> Do you have an address to write to for this and do you know PP> what the cost for these disks is? The address is: Grand Treasurer General Ordo Templi Orientis PO Box 430 Fairfax, CA 94930 USA The cost, I believe, is two empty disks per disk, but it may only be one. Write him about it first, or send a couple dozen disks, as it would at least get the Equinox, and perhaps the others filled with other stuff. His name is Bill Heidrick, and is a fine fellow, but we keep him pretty busy, so allow a few weeks. (Tell him Tony sent you!) TI> from me with scrawled labels on recycled disks in some unknown number TI> of months. They are also all file requestable at v32bis from me. PP> PP> Thank you for the offer but I cannot afford to file request PP> from Australia. If the OTO discs are beyond my budget, I PP> may take you up on the recycled offer. Do you have a file echo system running down there? Maybe once they are on your continent they can be passed around via modem more economically. Let me know if you will be making them freq'able, and I'll send other OZers to you. Thanks! ... The walls of gold entomb us; the swords of scorn divide... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tau Ursa Area: Thelema To: Frater Almost 16 Aug 92 21:48:50 Subject: New Thread Rec'd Sent UpdReq Who is Bobby Tilton? Sorry we missed your call today. If you leave me your phone number, I can call you. That asnwering machine is our Astral Guard Dragon. 93 Tau 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718