From: Mike Pfeiffer Area: Thelema To: Josh Norton 6 Jul 92 19:52:28 Subject: Re: CARE BEARS UpdReq So wh zero and one. and two. If indeed one's true will is a reflection of one's "right course" in the universe then the metaphysworks. agree that moral authority is a dangerous myth, but that's rhetoric. Anyway, I'm experiencing major white noise on my end, so I'll be brief: 1) Liber Al is a beautiful work, some of which I agree with. 2) the slaves are a threat to my true will. 3) If I have a right to do my will, and they oppose this, fuck 'em! 4 4) I hate this text editor. -93- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Neuro Sonic 7 Jul 92 13:35:02 Subject: Re: Lucifer myths UpdReq >It seems to me that what you are referring to is a process of magickally >combining to become a single-group willed entity or perhaps >throwing enough energy out that it gains a sentience of its >own accord. This reminds me very much as to the fabric of >Political/Nationalistic/Religious Machines to warp Social >Reality. The thought energy or belief system grows so >great and unwieldy that it's size seems to pull the >debris(sheep) into it's gravitational field of belief's. >Even swaying the pull of the Fence Riders. But it also >seems that so many Social Entities that are created, no >longer are controlled by the intentions of the originators >and tend to spit forth their own Magickal Children or >prophets to spread the word. Selling the individual choice >to the Order in order to trade for Placements in the >Hierchy of the Machine, along with the illusion of personal >power, which is ultimately taken away if the Will of The >created entity is Jeopardized at all. >(Did I make any sense their?) Whew! I'm not sure I grasp all of your point, but I'll answer to what I THINK you said. (BTW, it would help if you can quote a bit from the message you are answering. By the time these things work back to me through the net, I've often forgotten in which messages I said what.) The way I see it, there is a strong tendency in this universe for entities having a similar nature to interact in such a way that their combined action produces or embodies a meta-entity. The meta-entity has a seemingly "individual" nature, and possesses qualities and abilities NOT present in the smaller units of which it is built. This meta-entity functions _without_ disturbing or interfering with the nature and "true will" of the smaller units. The clearest example of this is a biological body. All the cells that make up the body act according to their own innate nature, and interact with their neighbors through various chemical and electro-chemical means. From the cell's viewpoint, it is acting as an individual in an environment, with no awareness of the larger entity of which they are all components. The body has its own characteristics which it does not share with its component cells, such as mobility, specialized sensory abilities, and various instinctual and conscious responses. The body acts on a different level of reality than do its cells. Since the "Gaea" theorists first pointed it out, it has become fairly obvious that the same principle extends through several stages to the level where the whole planetary biosphere can be seen to act as an individualized entity. The same principle holds true in the mundane human world. Groupings of individual humans combine to produce various meta-entities (nations, governments, corporations, religions, etc.) that, once formed, have a persistent existence separate from that of the individuals of which they are composed. These seem to be the sort of entities of which you are thinking, yes? I agree with you that in many cases these meta-entities seem to demand a sort of conformity-to-type from the individuals who participate. This would include such things as special ways of dressing, behaving, and socializing, and others such as restrictions on the kinds of opinions that participants are allowed to express. People who can not fulfill this conformity tend to be ejected from the entity. They have "bad vibes", and the other "cells" in the corporate body don't feel comfortable with them. I'm not really sure how much of such conformity is necessary to the functioning of the meta-entity, and how much is just to sooth the nerves of the individuals who think they are in charge of the entity's functioning. More of the latter than the former, I'd guess. And in those cases -- thankfully, very rare -- where an entity goes "out of control" and tries to extend its control beyond its "natural" limits, the demands for such conformity from those it is conscripting into itself become increasingly intense, with increasingly violent penalties for non-compliance. This is almost inevitable; since the entity is trying to control _everything_, there is nowhere to which it can eject those who do not fit. It's only choices are to cease trying to control everything, or to destroy the non-compliant. Now I suppose that the same problems could arise in a purely magickal meta-entity of the sort we were talking about in earlier messages, but I think there are a few things that would dictate against it. First, a meta-entity of this sort is generally formed by beings having a natural resonance with each other. In the magickal universe, like calls to like. Those whose nature is at odds with the nature of the entity would simply never come into contact with it, because they couldn't sense its vibrational characteristics. Second, if such an entity tried to extend its power beyond its natural sphere, it would create a state of imbalance that the rest of the magickal universe would tend to oppose very quickly. Events on the magickal planes don't possess the great inertia of events on the mundane levels, and it is precisely that inertia that allows mundane meta-entities to go out of control. It takes _time_ for the other meta-entities to shift their energies into opposition, and in the interval the out-of-control entity can make headway. On the magickal levels, the response is very much quicker, and there is correspondingly less likelihood of the problem reaching serious proportions. Third, when such entities do form, it is usually in response to a flow of "divine" creative force, a "current" in Thelemic parlance. Since the entity is there primarily to use and transmit the creative force, actions that are not in accord with the nature of the force will tend to push it away from its enlivening current. If it gets too far from the current, it starves and dissolves back into its component beings. * SLMR 2.1a * What does it all mean, Mr. Natural? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Thelema To: Mike Pfeiffer 7 Jul 92 14:50:04 Subject: Re: POLITICAL STUPIDITY UpdReq > Forgive my paranoia, but: those in power are >attempting to impose a behavior code on the rest of us. >The people don't make the laws, and never have. The laws >are almost always there to slant things in favor of the >rich. Lip service to freedom and justice - but the guns >follow the money, and always have. Could it be different? >I am forced to imagine it could. How do we get there from >here? good question. Well, IMO, the reason things are generally better for most people today than in past societies is that there have been some limitations put on the ways in which power can be exercised. We simply have to take it further and set things up so that there are more sorts of power NOBODY is allowed to exercise over others, no matter what their economic, social or governmental status is. A long job, but I think it is getting more feasable every year. > Voting won't do it. By the time a candidate or bill gets far enough >along to be seriously considered by the power structure, it >must conform to the pre-existing aims of that structure - >stated and unstated aims, which tend to slant things in >favor of the rich. All the rest of it is just window >dressing to keep us from rising up in arms... Yes, voting per se won't do it, as Boss Tweed knew. But I have hope, nonetheless. In the past, social control has been primarily exercised in three forms: a) use of force, b) control of transportation and communication, and c) controlling the flow of money. All three of these are already either partially or completely out of the control of either government or the monied interests, and they can't put much more in the way of limitations on them without cutting their own throats. I think communication in particular is going to be the key point in eventually reducing their power, though it may take a while yet. Neither government nor moneyed interests can survive without using computers. And computers, being information-manipulating machines, are by their very nature antithetical to the sort of secrecy necessary to private control of a population. Combine easily-available computer power with the astronomical capacity telecommunications and cable companies are starting to build into their systems, and you will eventually have a situation where it is impossible to keep anything secret. And when all of a government's secrets can be found out, true accountability becomes a real possibility. > But if Thelema is an accurate model, what's a few >generations of totalitarianism in the long run? I don't see totalitarianism as a viable model at this point, without a complete global economic collapse. Any sort of totalitarian government assumes an ability to micro-manage all the events occuring within the state, and a technological economy is simply not subject to micro-management. * SLMR 2.1a * Scratch a conservative and you will find a feudalist. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark Newcomb Area: Thelema To: Gerald Del Campo 6 Jul 92 11:30:00 Subject: Musical Liber Al UpdReq In a message dated Tue 30 Jun 92 19:22, Gerald Del Campo wrote: GDC> In a message dated 20 Jun 92 01:41:44, Frater Q.a.a. wrote: FQ> If you're a musician, can you tell me whether yourself or anyother FQ> Thelemic Musicians have attempted to Do a musical Interpretation of FQ> Liber Al with Spoken word poetry. Could be very powerful, yet FQ> soothing. GDC> I have heard all three chapters put into music by some group in the GDC> late 70's. I don't know who they are, and while the whole text is GDC> not included in the recordings it does give you the willies ;) GDC> I don't know who the band was that did it...and my recording is at GDC> least 5th generation so it sounds pretty horrible. GDC> If I could find some other musicians locally I'd love to give it a GDC> shot ;) 93 The group you are talking about called themselves "The Heretics", they where from the east coast area. "The Heretics" made only one recording, that of Liber Al (which was only on Cassette Tape). I personally have searched all the music stores in the Berkeley area - but to no avail. I did find groups called "The Heretics" and "The Heretixs" - but they are not the one that did Liber Al. I do know of a few people down at Thelema Lodge that have 3rd & 4th generation recordings of it, yet I have not been able to locate any originals. If anyone has any more info on this please post it as I and many others are interested in locating originals. Fra:. 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