From: Phug Area: Base of Set To: Sucellos 29 Jul 93 11:46:00 Subject: Re: Are You Out There UpdReq Nice to hear from you again. I was beginning to wonder if you were still around. Su> If you are there lets start a talk on 'the extent and method of Su> effecting change on the Magical-Link or Universe (capital "U")'. Su> me. All of my GBM work has been on a ~ba~ level. What do you think Su> about creating and sending forth a ~ka~ form that we can operate from Su> to effect changes on a totally objective plane? Su> I have worked with the (part anyway) essence of Leviathon and I want Su> to understand more of the Serpent that god or man can not concieve or Su> controll. I think you forget that you're speaking with someone who is fairly new to all this philosophy. I will do my best to traslate the terms I don't know exact definitions of through the context. If I interpret anything wrong, please correct me. Now, ka, I have heard that word, but never delved into it's meaning. It seems, from the context in which you use it, that it is a spiritual being; a form of Will, concentrated energy. This is the presumption I will go with.... Su> I have changed myself to be more like who I want to be, thus, Su> changing the world I occupy. I have done illustrative Workings to Su> get a broader and untainted view of the space and situations around This makes a lot of since. I think, if your desire was strong, you're energy, or Will--if you will--would be all that much more powerful. I would think that it's effectiveness on your surroundings would be much more pronounced. I do believe that one could (theoretically) force an infinite amount of change on the universe if they could collect enough energy and direct it. I don't know if a highly significant change could be effected by only one person, but I do think that several people, with common goals and desires, would have a better chance of effecting a notable change. As for wanting to understand a link (magickal, or other), I think this is a wise practice. It is man's nature to know, and often rushing in blindly causes problems in any situation. As for Leviathon...I am in the dark. Please tell me about this...force. Su> target of our Will up to you. That is if you find this sort of thing Su> interesting. I find it incredibly interesting, but I'm am ignorant when it comes to magick. Please try and help me out. I would love to discuss this matter with you, and learn along the way. Very glad to see your voice again! Phug 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Sucellos 29 Jul 93 20:17:00 Subject: Re: Are You Out There UpdReq Su> I have changed myself to be more like who I want to be, thus, Su> changing the world I occupy. I have done illustrative Workings to Su> get a broader and untainted view of the space and situations around Su> me. I am REALLY looking forward to doing Workings with you and Setana! Ahhh....all the things the future holds! The possibilities are, quite literally, infinite! Xeper and Remanifest. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Zbigniew Nitecki 31 Jul 93 02:38:00 Subject: Re: hey! UpdReq ZN> Unfortunately I did not watch the whole thing or attend, but from ZN> what ZN> I did see the main emphasis was on the flamboyant side of a gay's ZN> life. ZN> The Topless Lesbian March, the Leather and S&M expo. etc... People ZN> will see what they want to see, not what is actually there. The Temple uses the term "GBM" to describe this phenomenon. There are people who make large sums of money by causing you to perceive things in a certain manner. (Advertising executives are just the most obvious; I could also mention lawyers, television producers, filmmakers, etc.). What you saw, I am assuming, was a news broadcast of the March. If that is the case, remember; 1) News broadcasters thrive on images and "soundbites." A gay man rollerskating down the street in lederhosen and silk makes for a better picture than a group of suit-wearing accountants. 2) Newscasters bring their own prejudices to the event. If a newscaster expects to find a freak show at a Gay Pride March, he will certainly be able to find stuff which (according to the prevailing standard) is unusual. He will then (often, not always) present this freakiness to the public... who figures the Gay Pride March was nothing _but_ a drag queen/topless lesbian parade. ZN> they ZN> would want to prove that they deserve to serve the country, not ZN> disgrace it. I would suggest the onus should be on the homophobes to prove that gays and lesbians do _not_ deserve to serve their country, rather than upon gays and lesbians to prove that they do. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Adept Kevin T. Filan II* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Zbigniew Nitecki 31 Jul 93 02:46:00 Subject: Re: hey! UpdReq ZN> I admit that some of the military beliefs are real stupid. Not ZN> every gay that enlists in the military is going to be wearing pink ZN> shorts. Infact I bet 99.9% will not. Why not remove the ban. I'm ZN> sure we will get a few bad apples and the military will deal with ZN> them ZN> just like they deal with any bad apple. Exactly the point I and every other "Lift the Ban" activist have been trying to make. There are already provisions in the Military Code to punish sexual harassment. These, assuming they are enforced as aggressively as they ought to be, should be adequate to prevent any kind of pressure on straight soldiers from gay commanding officers, etc. ZN> Just a few points that the gays will have to overcome. ZN> ZN> 1. You are as strong as your weakest person. I don't judge all white people by the tooth-lacking, flea-bitten, greasy jean-wearing, Confederate-flag-tattooed, baseball cap covering-up-unwashed hair white trash which I occasionally bumped into in Georgia. Nor do I judge all black people by the ones we represented in criminal cases while I was a paralegal. Were I to do so, I would be making a mistake. The same holds true of those who want to believe that all gay men and women are freaks. (Re. the fitness of homosexuals in the military; I'm sure T.E. Lawrence, better known as Lawrence of Arabia, was quite a competent soldier. So were Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar. All of the above were homosexual or bisexual men). ZN> 2. Doesn't matter how many 'ata boy's you get one aaaww shit will ZN> screw them all up. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. ZN> 3. The public will see what they want to see, whether it is true or ZN> not. True... but this doesn't justify government-sponsored discrimination. I've met people who are convinced that Jews are nasty people who conspire to take over businesses owned by honest American Caucasians... or that blacks are all lazy, dirty monkeys who care about nothing more than wine, watermelon, welfare, and white women. This doesn't mean that I support government efforts to keep Jews or blacks out of the military. A lie does not become truth just because a lot of people believe it. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Adept Kevin T. Filan II* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Walter Five 31 Jul 93 02:50:00 Subject: Re: A response to a response to a response, usv.UpdReq WF> Yeah, dual memberships are o.k. I know several Setians including a WF> Priest (or Magister ) who belong to the O.T.O. You may find it harder WF> to take higher degrees within the O.T.O., or not, depending how you WF> interpret the vows and oaths of obligation. Your actual mileage may WF> vary, I know a II Setian who just took his 3rd, and a I Setian who is WF> studying for his 4th. The Magister chose to stop at 2nd in the O.T.O. WF> for the reasons cited above. You should ask OzTech her opinions on WF> this matter. Will do... personally, I feel the OTO is a fraternal order, not a religion, but I know many within the OTO who differ with me. I suspect that upon reaching higher grades within either the OTO or the Temple of Set I might be forced to choose between one or the other merely because of time constraints. Indeed, as a Setian I would probably refuse to enter the Lovers Triad simply because the time required to fulfill ones' duties in those degrees combined with the time spent on Setian Work would be overwhelming. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Adept Kevin T. Filan II* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718