From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Star*fire 22 Aug 92 07:33:00 Subject: Re: The moderator speaks... UpdReq St> I might ask one thing, I'm finding my self more drawn to Set and St> would St> like to know how one goes about becoming a memeber of the tos. I St> under- St> stand something about sponsorship but I know no priest or priestess St> so is there another way. You may be sponsored by a member of the Priesthood, if you already known one of them. Otherwise, simply read the _General Information and Policy_ file (available here for D/L) and write to the main Temple office. Not having sponsorship won't effect your chances. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 22 Aug 92 07:36:00 Subject: Re: RE: The moderator speaks... Rec'd UpdReq CN> I agree. I quit reading everything except Nightside, Set and CN> Vampyre. I have my own work to do, and reading through reams of CN> fundie drivel got incredibly boring. (I have done a few things on CN> Cult Info lately, but frankness is treated as flaming and forbidden.) I quit reading all but the ones you mentioned over a year ago. Which other ones were you reading? I read Mag-Plants infrequently as well. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: rakshasa 22 Aug 92 07:41:00 Subject: Re: Is this the SET Echo? UpdReq ra> Then I suggest ra> they get their hands on some of Stephen Flowers' work and some of the ra> stuff the Odinists are doing to see how you go about trying to ra> recreate a genuine Olde Religion... I just really started looking seriously at Magus Flowers stuff a few months ago. I just finished _Rune Might_ and previous to that I read _Ring of Troth_ and _Fire and Ice_. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Lewis Cypher 22 Aug 92 07:47:00 Subject: Q&A UpdReq LC> Is Set, as experienced by Setiens, an anthropormorphising of LC> individual LC> consciousness? Is is a tool? A 'Controlled folly' as Casteneda terms LC> it? Or is LC> it the group mind of all the combined consciousness of the Order? I think it is so incredibly individualized that every Setian would most likely give you a different answer. The "Infernal Anteater" as he is sometimes called due to his physical morphology as a visible Neter, is for me, a handle or container into which I can pour all my experiences (with Set) for manipulation over many different levels... I believe Set could easily represent any or all of the above you quoted, up to the level of Adept. The Priesthood requires more, however. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Deep Black Area: Base of Set To: Oz Tech 22 Aug 92 07:49:00 Subject: Re: RE: My _Abrasax_ column UpdReq OT> reached OT> without reading the sheaf of resignation letters, is lame. I also think that a read of Ipsissimus Aquino's _Church of Satan_ would be mandatory for a balanced view. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: Base of Set To: Lewis Cypher 22 Aug 92 10:29:00 Subject: Q&A UpdReq Dear Mr. Cypher: Thank you for your response. While I am only a First Degree Setian, and thus have a limited view of Setianism, I will try to answer your questions on the Nature of Set as best I can. You are perceptive in commenting on the "anthropomorphising of consciousness." I indeed have just come to that realization myself, and have begun to see the Intelligences I encounter as parts of my hidden mind...not as separate beings. With regards to the nature of Set, however, the question gets more complicated. You must understand, first of all, that it is not necessary for a Setian below Second Degree to believe in Set as an objective reality. I personally feel that there is a being which calls Itself Set...there are others within the Temple who would indeed see him as an "anthropomorphising of individual consciousness" or a "tool" to be used in a sort of "controlled folly." For those below the Priesthood, the Temple does not require belief; indeed, I have had members of the Priesthood tell me to keep the question of Set's existence "open." Dogmatic belief by faith is anathema to the Setian experience. The beliefs of those of the Priesthood and higher degrees I could tell you very little about. I gather that they consider Set an objective reality, like myself...but I am unclear as to the nature of their belief. Perhaps when I become a Priest of Set I will be able to tell you more. If you are interested, I would highly recommend that you contact the Temple of Set at P.O. Box 470937, San Francisco, California, 94147. Direct your questions to Michael Aquino: I did in February of 1991 and received a prompt, courteous, and helpful answer, along with an Introductory letter...as a result I chose to affiliate. While you may not choose to do so, I think you would be impressed with our work and I am sure that you will be able to get a much clearer picture of Setianism from this letter than from my humble experiences. Xeper and Remanifest. Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Lewis Cypher 22 Aug 92 10:49:00 Subject: Touched by ... UpdReq LC> What was it like to be 'touched' by Set, if you don't mind sharing LC> this very LC> personal insight. I have been 'touched' by My Lord Satan, and it was LC> empowering, and strengthing. It made me realize the void, and LC> promotied my LC> building my own psyche. I felt imense power, and reassurance. That particular working was one of transformation and remanifestation, so I went into it with a number of questions on my mind about the future, and all were answered. -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Lewis Cypher 22 Aug 92 10:50:00 Subject: Re: RE: The moderator speaks... UpdReq LC> At last, sanity. At least I hope so! :-) -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Oz Tech 22 Aug 92 10:52:00 Subject: Re: RE: The moderator speaks... UpdReq OT> One of the things I always tell people who ask about "gaining power OT> through OT> Satanism" is that refusing to suffer fools can be unbelievably OT> empowering. OT> I commend you for re-asserting the purpose of the Echo. I feel it's not just my job either though. I can lay down the rules, but it's up to the people in here to help me enforce them... I'll be posting a message to All here in a sec about some other things... OT> The latest _Scroll_ includes one report on the June 18-19 Working. I OT> have been OT> thinking about sending in a report myself; things have been hopping OT> around OT> here ever since. Seems to me that the Stars Have Come Right Again, as OT> H.P. OT> Lovecraft would say--time to shoo off the anklebiting fundies and OT> concentrate OT> squarely on our personal unfolding, in both the subjective and OT> objective OT> realms. I considered it myself, but I was waiting for some input from the Priest I'm working with, as that working was pretty interesting for me... X&R! -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 22 Aug 92 10:53:00 Subject: Re: The moderator speaks... UpdReq JM> I am sorry, but I do not remember EVER reading that message in Email JM> so I did not mean to make it sound like I ignored it. Ok. If you can stick to LHP subjects, and not mention Christianity or the Bible, I have no problem with you in here. This echo is to talk about our religion, not yours.... Thanks, -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Star*fire 22 Aug 92 10:56:00 Subject: Re: The moderator speaks... UpdReq St> At least your not being nasty and kicking him off. True, If I did that, I'd get a flood of Christian hatemail... Not that I don't already.. :-) St> I might ask one thing, I'm finding my self more drawn to Set and St> would St> like to know how one goes about becoming a memeber of the tos. I St> under- St> stand something about sponsorship but I know no priest or priestess St> so is there another way. Being sponsored by a Priest or a Priestess is just an added bonus, and helps speed up the process (Though it's quite fast anyway) Simply DL and read the Temple of Set's general information letter, and follow it's instructions. It's available on a number of BBSs around, including Baphonet.... -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 22 Aug 92 10:59:00 Subject: Re: The moderator speaks... UpdReq DB> I agree. Well no one has disagreed so far, so it looks like we're doing ok.. -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Sinistar Area: Base of Set To: All 22 Aug 92 11:29:00 Subject: The theme.. UpdReq I think the main thing that will keep the Christians out of here is to simply ignore them. If one happens to make it in here and post something, just ignore it and they'll go away. For the most part, it's all coming from Purgatory anyway (Damn Oklahoma...) I'm taking steps to limiting the chances of the radical Christians and loonies getting in here.... -=Sinistar=- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 23 Aug 92 08:54:56 Subject: Re: RE: The moderator speaks... Sent UpdReq CN> I agree. I quit reading everything except Nightside, Set and CN> Vampyre. I have my own work to do, and CN> reading through reams of CN> fundie drivel got incredibly boring. (I CN> have done a few things on CN> Cult Info lately, but frankness is treated CN> as flaming and forbidden.) DB> I quit reading all but the ones you mentioned over a year ago. DB> Which other ones were you reading? DB> I read Mag-Plants infrequently as well. Yes, I have gotten some very good tips from Mag-Plants and check in infrequently as well, since it moves more slowly. I hate to hurt the feelings of moderators of other no-longer-read echoes, and there were a lot of echoes that I haven't so much as glanced at in years (Wicca, etc.). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 23 Aug 92 09:24:36 Subject: Q&A Sent UpdReq LC> Is Set, as experienced by Setiens, an anthropormorphising of LC> individual LC> consciousness? Is is a tool? A 'Controlled LC> folly' as Casteneda terms LC> it? Or is LC> it the group mind of all the combined LC> consciousness of the Order? DB> I think it is so incredibly individualized that every Setian would DB> most likely give you a different answer. The "Infernal Anteater" DB> as he is sometimes called due to his physical DB> morphology as a visible DB> Neter, is for me, a handle or container into which I can pour all DB> my experiences (with Set) for manipulation over many different DB> levels... DB> I believe Set could easily represent any or all DB> of the above you quoted, DB> up to the level of Adept. The Priesthood requires more, however. Isn't that "more" a belief in Set as a literal entity? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 23 Aug 92 09:26:22 Subject: Re: RE: My _Abrasax_ column Sent UpdReq OT> reached OT> without reading the sheaf of resignation letters, is lame. DB> I also think that a read of Ipsissimus Aquino's _Church of Satan_ DB> would be mandatory for a balanced view. I would very much like to purchase a copy of that text, as well as a copy of the _Crystal_Tablets_ (the latter with any secret material removed). Is either obtainable without being a member of the ToS? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ken Area: Base of Set To: Markie Chao 21 Aug 92 20:06:30 Subject: Re: Sin Rec'd Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Markie Chao to Ken <=- K> of calling it all sin which it is not. MC> MC> I don't speak Hebrew so I can't check it, but I read that `Sin' in MC> Hebrew means `Ignorance'. Real food for thought on that one...I tend MC> to accept that definition either way. ;) I agree with you, but when writing that to Jeff, I was trying to make him see, that everything they preach is not true in its self. No I would be one to admit that this is getting off track, meaning the topic of this echo, the only one who really seems to stay on track is Diane Vera. But I would like to say that no matter what Pale, or Jeff have to say, it is of their opinion even though a great deal of people here are getting ready to send a horde of demons to them in order to keep them busy. What is Chaos magick? Ken, Aka ken anderson aka star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Frater Almost 22 Aug 92 11:26:34 Subject: Re: Witness this Rec'd Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Frater Almost to Jeff Mccord <=- FA> You always like to talk about how you are "witnessing" to all of us FA> "ppor, lost souls in the satanic doldrumns." Well, my dear sweet FA> friend, witness this: FA> Your Christ is not my Christ. My Christ is quite different. He FA> loves all men and all women. He has done away with hell. He plays FA> chess with Lucifer. The two versions of Christ which you and I seem FA> to think is the "One True Christ" are entirely different. My CHrist FA> is a God... Beyond Good and evil. Your Christ is so wrapped up in FA> being appaled at us poor, cock-sucking, nipple-piercing homosexuals FA> that he is sending YOU to judge us. Know this... You are not FA> witnessing. Witnessing is a type of Gnosis that, once heard, will be FA> accepted by ALL as True. I refuse to accept your Witness. You are no FA> WItness of the Glory of the Lord. Your version of CHrist is the one FA> that Baker, and Swaggart, and Tilton have set up as a God.... A FALSE FA> GOD. FA> My Christ and My Satan are two distinct forces.... equal and opposite FA> and ready to work together for my benefit. You do not understand FA> this. You will claim that we are all "lost and doomed to Hell" but I FA> tell you this... If we do go to Hell, we'll have you to fudge-pack. FA> Pax. 93 You're a nasty little devil. Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ken Area: Base of Set To: Markie Chao 22 Aug 92 11:30:00 Subject: Re: Sin Rec'd Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Markie Chao to Ken <=- K> of calling it all sin which it is not. MC> MC> I don't speak Hebrew so I can't check it, but I read that `Sin' in MC> Hebrew means `Ignorance'. Real food for thought on that one...I tend MC> to accept that definition either way. ;) Excellent point. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Base of Set To: Mystic 23 Aug 92 14:24:00 Subject: Wiccans/Satanists Sent UpdReq M> Yea, but if you can't freak the straights....well M> what's the purpose for M> living? There's a time for work and a time for play...;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Base of Set To: Ken 23 Aug 92 14:25:58 Subject: Re: Sin Sent UpdReq K> say, it is of their opinion even though a great deal of people here K> are getting ready to send a horde of demons to them in order to keep K> them busy. Why waste perfectly good demons on vehemently ignorant fools? K> What is Chaos magick? Go read Night Side, and/or download Chaos1 or whatever it's filed under. The short answer is that it is using the forces of primal chaos to create magical acts. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Base of Set To: The Sinistar 23 Aug 92 14:39:12 Subject: The theme.. Sent UpdReq TS> I'm taking steps to limiting the chances of the TS> radical Christians and loonies getting in here.... No No! Not the loonies! Where would we Go? ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Base of Set To: Star*fire 23 Aug 92 14:43:04 Subject: Re: Witness this Sent UpdReq S> You're a nasty little devil. But he's so cute when he's being nasty. ;) Comes up with some great philosophical ideas in mid-rant too, if you really pay attention. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Base of Set To: Star*fire 23 Aug 92 17:53:42 Subject: Re: Witness this Sent UpdReq Of course I'm nasty! I'm as evil as they cum! ;) Pax. 93 666 666 666 666 666 666 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Lewis Cypher 22 Aug 92 15:40:10 Subject: Re: Q&A Sent UpdReq Just wanted ask you if your took your name from the book/move Angel Hart or if it is your actual name. I believe in the book it was spelled Luis Cypher Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 22 Aug 92 20:40:22 Subject: Re: The moderator speaks... Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Deep Black to Star*fire <=- St> I might ask one thing, I'm finding my self more drawn to Set and St> would St> like to know how one goes about becoming a memeber of the tos. I St> under- St> stand something about sponsorship but I know no priest or priestess St> so is there another way. DB> DB> You may be sponsored by a member of the Priesthood, if you already DB> known one of them. Otherwise, simply read the _General Information DB> and Policy_ file (available here for D/L) and write to the main DB> Temple office. Not having sponsorship won't effect your chances. DB> Thanks for the info. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 22 Aug 92 20:46:14 Subject: Re: RE: The moderator speaks... Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Deep Black to Charles Nemo <=- CN> I agree. I quit reading everything except Nightside, Set and CN> Vampyre. I have my own work to do, and reading through reams of CN> fundie drivel got incredibly boring. (I have done a few things on CN> Cult Info lately, but frankness is treated as flaming and forbidden.) DB> DB> I quit reading all but the ones you mentioned over a year ago. DB> Which other ones were you reading? DB> I read Mag-Plants infrequently as well. DB> It does get boring after awhile, especially when people, like myself wish to be educated and talk with others of a like mind. I stopped being on these echoes for around four months because nothing was happening, I mean no deep discussions or anything except those of Diane Vera. And most of the messages on the board were arguments about the fundies that have invaded here. Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Deep Black 22 Aug 92 20:52:38 Subject: Re: Q&A Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting Deep Black to Lewis Cypher <=- LC> Is Set, as experienced by Setiens, an anthropormorphising of LC> individual LC> consciousness? Is is a tool? A 'Controlled folly' as Casteneda terms LC> it? Or is LC> it the group mind of all the combined consciousness of the Order? DB> DB> I think it is so incredibly individualized that every Setian would DB> most likely give you a different answer. The "Infernal Anteater" DB> as he is sometimes called due to his physical morphology as a visible DB> Neter, is for me, a handle or container into which I can pour all DB> my experiences (with Set) for manipulation over many different DB> levels... DB> DB> I believe Set could easily represent any or all of the above you DB> quoted, up to the level of Adept. The Priesthood requires more, DB> however. As I understand it the Priesthood must believe in set as Real, living entitiy not just mythos, psycho drama, and energy force etc. What I'm trying to ask is, how do Setians look at Set, is it the same as the Fundies with Jesus, or Satanists with Satan? Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 22 Aug 92 21:26:46 Subject: Re: The moderator speaks... Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting The Sinistar to Jeff Mccord <=- JM> I am sorry, but I do not remember EVER reading that message in Email JM> so I did not mean to make it sound like I ignored it. TS> TS> Ok. If you can stick to LHP subjects, and not mention Christianity or TS> the Bible, I have no problem with you in here. This echo is to talk TS> about our religion, not yours.... TS> Thanks, TS> TS> -=Sinistar=- Jeff, I feel inclinded to help educate you in the ways of our path and to help correct the way you look at things. Whether you agree or disagree is all right by me, but please indulge me this. First I will start on your terms. With out sounding stereotypical or prejudice, as I recall in my xtian years, the mistakes you make when it comes with dealing with the "Prince of Darkness, the god of this world and so forth. People of your faith pass judgement on everything they see because they disagree with because the Bible tells them so or their pastor dictates it. They make Satan responsible for everything that goes wrong with their lives to whats goes on in this world. And they "rebuke" him and send him to hell. Does your Bible not say that not even the angels when fighting over the body of Moses dared to pass judgement on Lucifer and did Jesus ever send the demons to hell, no, if I recall the angels said to Lucifer, Lord rebuke you, and Jesus sent them into pigs or out in deserted places. Now on with ours, Satan to most, well at least to me when I was younger, was not a real being, Lucifer was but Satan, is name given to all demons and devils and what not. I felt Lucifer's presence whenever I invoked him and he did wonderful things for me and rather quickly to I may add. Things went very well for me, to the envy of both my friends and enemies alike. True I was marked as weird and some were afraid, but I never did anything to harm anyone unless they harmed me but no one really did. those who annoyed me, by calling me faggot and such, yes I came out in high school as a freshman (9th) and that also threw people for a loop, but it was funny. I used the power to help people with situations, to pass tests where other wise they would fail, to get girls, guys or invoke situations where two people could meet each other. But I did warn them of the balance factor even back then. You see though I can`t speak for Setians, I've had experience with Satanism, via Anton Levay. Though now to some the Satanic Bible is old old aeon, I still keep a copy of it around. You asked for my address, it is Ken Anderson PO Box 1581, East Hampton New York, 11937 if you care to call Im available for chatting between 6pm to 9:30 pm at 516-329-3826 oh yeah thats eastern standard time. Satanists are not those who slaughter animals, people or what have you, nor are they controlling. Some cults do things like that, but some use God and Jesus' name as well. But I wont get into that. Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Star*fire Area: Base of Set To: The Sinistar 22 Aug 92 21:31:34 Subject: Re: The theme.. Sent UpdReq -=> Quoting The Sinistar to All <=- TS> I think the main thing that will keep the Christians out of here is TS> to simply ignore them. TS> If one happens to make it in here and post something, just ignore it TS> and they'll go away. For the most part, it's all coming from Purgatory TS> anyway (Damn Oklahoma...) TS> I'm taking steps to limiting the chances of the radical Christians and TS> loonies getting in here.... TS> -=Sinistar=- Unfortunately for you, you live smack in the middle of the Bible belt. I don't think anyone holds purgatory responsible, anyway they could get on another bbs and post just the same. What I'm trying to say is , don't waste your energy trying to fight something that really isn't worth fighting (the time, energy and so forth) Star*fire 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718