From: Dirge Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 4 May 92 20:48:04 Subject: Misconceptions Sent UpdReq Diane: We've been exchanging quite a few messages here lately, but I think it's time to step back and cover some of the basics. You seem to be laboring under a few misconceptions about the policies and positions of the Ordo Templi Satanis, and I'd like to clear them up now before they get too far out of hand. I'm responding to a number of your recent messages here,so we can stop trying to dominate the echo with dozens of postings! :) 1) You seem to think that the OTS concept of the Satanic Elite is equivalent to the rich and "powerful". This is not the case. The OTS ideal of the Satanic Elite is precisely those forces within society which are responsible for the creation of 90% of the art, philosophy, ideas, and other "intellectual property" which is the true lifeblood of a modern society. The size of a person's bankroll, or his title in a corporation,are meaningless in terms of determining him to be a member of the Elite. The Elite are those people who create, and who propel society forward through that creation. 2) In your message of 18 Apr 92, "Satanism and politics (1 of 2)", you state that "I disagree with one of the Ordo Templi Satanis's most basic premises: that American society is a meritocracy, or would be if only the economy were more laissez-faire." Who ever said America is a meritocracy? Again, the confusion over the rich being the Elite may be to blame here. The OTS would favor a strict meritocracy, but we by no stretch of the imagination believe that we have one here, or that one is produced by the current economic system in the US. 3) Political economics is somewhat beyond the scope of this echo, and I for one wouldn't know where to carry it over to. I'll let the subject of European and world economic systems drop for the moment, for the sake of topic drift. (Altering the GNP through GBM... now there's a thought!) 4) In part 2 of that same message, you said "By the way, I also don't think Satanism is the best possible religion for someone whose main goal in life is to make lots of money." I would agree. Never said otherwise. 5) You further say that "I want to live in a society that respects individuality and diversity." We would agree, with reservations. We believe that it is impossible (or grossly undesirable) to have such freedoms without a sense of responsibility. Indeed, it is this sense of responsibility to society as a whole that makes up an important facet of the Satanic Elite. Doing something you want for the sake of being individualistic is silly and counterproductive. Doing something you want because you know it is the right thing to do is something entirely different. 6) In your 20 Apr 92 message, entitled "Right Wingers", you state that "Do you believe that Satanists (in the more ordinary sense of the term, i.e. people who relate in a sympathetic way to the god-form of Satan, at least symbolically) are destined to rule the world)? I don't." I would say that yes, I do. In fact, I would say that we already do, but not in the economic/political sense you would seem to think. We rule the world because we are the prime motivators of human society... Without us, without the Satanic current of creativity and driving force present in the human species, we would grind to a halt and probably slip back to a neolithic culture. 7) You further say "It makes more sense to define "the Satanic Elite" not as the actual ruling class, but as intelligent, creative nonconformists, with the idea that Satanism encourages such people to *seek* power, to the extent that they realistically can." No argument here. We do. Remember, though, that some individuals throughout history have in fact reached the pinnacles of power through intelligent and creative nonconformity. These are the Satanic heroes of the ages. 8) And to go on... "Short term interests or long term interests? (If I have time, one of these days I'll write a critique of ECOLOGY.OTS.)" I'd say they're one in the same, but I'll look forward to a more in-depth discussion of ECOLOLGY.OTS. 9) And as far as the differences between the COS and the OTS; for starters,we believe that a strictly and highly organized group is more condusive to achieving our ends, while they feel that a loosely coaligned mass of people who happen to think the same way will somehow stumble into their goals. They also emphasize magic much more than does the OTS. Hope this alleviates some of the confusions; I think that if we can keep the ideas of the materially wealthy and the Satanic Elite separate, then we can get a lot farther. Hope to hear from you soon! Hail Satan! Dirge 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Dirge Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 4 May 92 20:49:12 Subject: Pentagram Sent UpdReq As far as the pentagram goes, I admit I'm not an expert on the subject;ditto with the Pythagoreans. However, some interesting information on the Baphomet can be found in Temple and the Lodge by Baiget and Leigh (Little Brown/Arcade Publishing, 1989). That is probably where LaVey got the idea to superimpose the goat's head on the pentagram. Still looking for the source for the hebrew word Leviathan on the circumpherence (aside from the obvious hebrew mythological reference, of course). Hail Satan! Dirge 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Dirge Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 4 May 92 20:49:54 Subject: Exchanges and Info Sent UpdReq Charles- Just checked the PO Box again today and checked with some of my colleagues;nothing of the sort you describe has come in in the last few months. I shudder to think where your package wound up! Please forward your address and I'll send out an OTS package right away. The address is PO Box 1093,Atwater, CA 95340. Send c/o the OTS. I'd love to see what sort of things you'd have to exchange, though; I've a few interesting tidbits I've collected over the years. Same goes for everyone else, too! Hail Satan! Dirge 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718