From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 21 Apr 92 09:18:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq In a message to Frc <04-19-92 15:30> Jeff Mccord wrote: JM> Well, I haven't heard a satanist specifically say that - but why JM> would you all want to serve a god that is not victorious? Jesus is JM> my God. Jesus beat satan when he rose from the dead... Why wouldn't JM> you serve something that would not win? Or do all satanists want to JM> burn in hell with satan? Sounds pretty sophmoric Jeff. Maybe when you get a little older you'll get some insight into these things. I've found that for humans it is important they get exposure to other cultures. Sounds like you've locked yourself up from exposure to the world. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 21 Apr 92 09:19:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq In a message to Markie Chao <04-19-92 15:34> Jeff Mccord wrote: JM> See that is our diffrences... I believe in THE God... you believe JM> in no God, or if you do they are made up of your own creation. Since all Gods are illusionary you've fooled yourself. Easy to do isn't it?? B^) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ammond Shadowcraft Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 21 Apr 92 09:24:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq In a message to Jeff Mccord <04-19-92 18:18> Astral Invader wrote: AI> Where is 'enemy' defined as such in the Bible?...Is not Satan, the AI> ULTIMATE 'enemy' to the Christian paradigm?... Satan is the Opposer as mythically recorded in Job. The Opposer (a kind of public presecutor) worked for Jehovah and did Jehovah's bidding. Jeff probably isn't old enough to understand the significance of that relationship. Mythically speaking there is no evil which Jehovah did not create. (That's the philosophical problem all supreme Gods suffer). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Frater Almost 22 Apr 92 08:50:00 Subject: Re: satan Rec'd UpdReq FA> My my my my my my my! I just LOVE it when theives like you and Jim FA> and Tammy and Swaggert and Anal ROberts fall out on each other! Your Don't ever compare me to the Bakker's, Swaggert, or Roberts! I am not a hypocrite. When I had backslided, I didn't claim to be a Christian. In fact, when I did something and someone confronted me about it, I told them that I wasn't a Christian and to get off my back. So I am not a hypocrite. I am definitely a Christian now, because I follow God, and I do His will, and try to live the way He wants me to live. FA> "warning" to Jeff sounded more like a threat to me... Like you were FA> really trying to say, "Back off! These are my HEATHEN GODLESS Souls FA> to corrupt!" Get a religion. Warning Jeff wasn't a threat. I just wanted to make sure that he knew what he was doing. I don't want to see a younger Christian that is not really good at defending the Bible, trying to defend the Bible, and finding himself backed into a corner. I don't want to see any of my brothers and sisters get hurt. He's going to stay in here, so I don't know why you are so mad. I should have known you would get angry about my warning to Jeff. I realize that there are certain people in this echo that are just waiting for a baby Christian to prey on. Why can't everyone be as nice as the Setians? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Triple Six Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 21 Apr 92 13:41:52 Subject: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq In a message to Triple Six <19 Apr 92 10:38> Pale Rider wrote: >TS> PR> Look in Magick by Aleister Crowley pages 217, 219, 220, and >TS> PR> 222. Aleister Crowley noted that "the hightest spiritual >TS> working" >TS> PR> required the sacrifice of a male child. >TS> >TS> Did you read the footnote, PR? PR> Nope, I don't have the book. Is it me, or do you have a habit of putting your foot in your mouth? You read an article, or see the last 10 mins. of a television show, then make all kinds of uninformed statements, as though you actually knew what you were talking about. Refresh my memory, if you will--where did you see this article? As they say on TELEVISION - "Read the Book!" Cheerios! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 22 Apr 92 12:36:00 Subject: Re: non-Christians not allowed! UpdReq JM> I understand where you are coming from about non-christians being JM> unable to post in Christian echos... but that is nothing I can do. I wasn't asking for your help! :D JM> If I am bothering you or making you uncomfortable, I am sorry.. Your not bothering me at all. JM> But, as a Christian, I am to go to witness to people who are not JM> saved, so that they can JM> see and hear the TRUTH, and then it is their choice to go from there. That is admirable. Although I don't quite understand your logic. Look at the quotes from yru in this message. JM> God gives you the choice. I don't think so. Homey don't play that! *I* give myself the choice. I have no interest in what Christians interpretation of God/Jesus's has to say about me. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 22 Apr 92 12:39:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq PR> From scattered information that I read in the past, probably PR> atleast a year ago. I thought that it was common knowledge how evil PR> Aleister Crowley was.... Again, common knowledge to YOU, perhaps. And "scattered information" is an excellent choice of words. PR> You mean that you don't think that he indulged in illegal activities PR> like sacrifices? Yeah, he indulged in illegal acivities. No, he never sacrificed _humans_. Animals, yeah.......no doubt. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Azrael 22 Apr 92 12:56:00 Subject: Re: Blood-sucking? UpdReq Az> You honor me...Thank you! I look forward to our next meeting! I feel you are Setian, but time will help you to understana.d. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 22 Apr 92 13:20:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq JM> True, the Word of God is sometimes misunderstood... but be real, JM> why would God command us to love satan? Satan is the creator of evil JM> - he In my paradigm, 'Satan' is simply a bastardized term handed down to Christianity by the Hebrews....In this regard, it is effective only in suppressing the notion of individual will in persons of weak self esteem or awareness....I am being very 'real'....Are you?... JM> rebelled against God... your statement is like saying, "Why don't JM> Christians JM> witness to satan?" - He is already sentenced to hell. My point is that the statement can be interpreted in such a way, and you can't arbitrarily insert your own scripture in to accomodate for the error.... /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Phule 22 Apr 92 13:24:00 Subject: Re: What is Satanism? UpdReq Ph> It's easy to follow the left and right hand path. Ph> You just have to take WIDE steps! I'll get my philosophy stilts.... /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Azrael 22 Apr 92 14:10:00 Subject: Re: Setian Philosophy UpdReq Az> Not as pleasent as some might think. Though it is one hell of an ego Az> boost. True....It's very much a matter of learning to accept the ego at the appropriate times.... What sort of things do you remember most from this experience?... /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Frater Almost 22 Apr 92 14:26:00 Subject: Re: satan Rec'd UpdReq FA> really trying to say, "Back off! These are my HEATHEN GODLESS Souls FA> to corrupt!" Get a religion. Hehe....'Alright, first off I'd like to convert you all to Christianity....but before I do I'd like to introduce you to our new line of John the Baptist Tupperware....' /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 22 Apr 92 14:27:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq PR> Why can't everyone be as nice as the Setians? We're just as sweet as gingerbread, aren't we?... /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 22 Apr 92 14:44:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq PR> You mean Aleister Crowley didn't commit illegal acts like a baby PR> sacrifice or animal sacrifices? If I'm not mistaken he did engage in a bit of ANIMAL sacrifice, the reasons why I can't immediately recall or confirm. Based on what I know, I am of the opinion that he did NOT participate in human sacrifice. You will find upon reading certain things about Crowley, that much of the man's life was exaggerated and twisted by the British Press, and other persons unwilling to accept his lifestyle.... Seems that society has a problem in that area.... /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jeff Mccord Area: Base of Set To: Markie Chao 22 Apr 92 15:49:00 Subject: Re: non-Christians not allowed! Rec'd UpdReq I can see you are upset... how sad. MC> We can save ourselves because your imaginary threat of hellfire is MC> mythological and the only thing we have to save ourselves from is the Okay... I understand what you are saying... just wait and see; when we all die, we can finally find out the whole truth, fair? Let's just hope, in your case, that God isn't ture... of course, I know he is... but that is my opinion, and I have the right to my opinion, and so do you... Thanks for your "encouraging" input... If you are trying to scare me or threaten me, it doesn't seem to work... I am told in the Word of God that I will suffer for being a Christian... that is part of the job.! Adios! Don't mean to sound hostile! heeheh jEFF 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jeff Mccord Area: Base of Set To: Frc 22 Apr 92 15:51:00 Subject: Re: non-Christians not allowed! UpdReq What I meant is that God gave us the choice to pick what we want to worship. He is a loving God... he didn't all make us the same - he gave YOU the choice. You are right, it is YOUR Choice to worship whom you want. But it is also YOUR responsibility to go through the consequences, whatever they might be. Easier to understand? Talk to you later.... Jeff 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azrael Area: Base of Set To: Balanone 22 Apr 92 16:36:00 Subject: Re: left-hand? UpdReq Ba> The one point I feel you may have missed is that those of us Ba> who belong to an organization like the Temple of Set are able Ba> to discuss them within the organization, with others who Ba> already share a common language and symbolism, so that these Ba> discussions are easier. I see your point and completely understand. However, would you also agree that a group (any group) thinking along the same lines would tend to think (generally speaking) alike? If so, then would it not be benefical for the group to discuss outside itself, to some degree, to check for possible alternatives previously unthought of by the group (due to like thinking). Ba> There are no modern books on Setian principles as such. Much Ba> of what we deal with has been written about from other Ba> angles, and you'll find those books listed in the Temple's Ba> reading list, which I believe is available in Purgatory's Ba> file system. Thanks I have and now must admit that I have plenty to read. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azrael Area: Base of Set To: Frc 22 Apr 92 16:42:00 Subject: Re: Blood-sucking? UpdReq I must admit that I agree with most of what I've seen, read, and heard about Temple of Set. However, my present level of understanding is too low to make a call as yet. We all grow at a pace set by our level of understanding. So I guess only time will tell. };) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azrael Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 22 Apr 92 16:56:00 Subject: Re: Setian Philosophy UpdReq AI> What sort of things do you remember most from this AI> experience?... The trials and believe me there were plenty. One of my first trials...There was this one young lady (she was 16 or 17 and at this time I was 24). She kept coming on to me real hard. Trust me, she was damn fun to look at. She was very open about what she wanted. I wanted it too...However if I had done anything (I politely avoided her advancements...boy was that tough) I would have succeeded in destroying her beliefs. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Triple Six Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 22 Apr 92 11:10:36 Subject: Crowley, sacrifice, etc... UpdReq In a message to Pale Rider <19 Apr 92 17:55> Astral Invader wrote: AI> Do you believe that Crowley sacrificed human beings, Pale?... AI> It sort of amuses me to think of all the blood strewn fields in AI> your Religious history, and to see you picking on something like AI> this.... "Father Abraham had many sons, Many sons had Father Abraham. I am one of them, and so are you, So let's all praise the Lord...." (I think someone spiked my coffee...) X&R! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Triple Six Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 22 Apr 92 11:28:24 Subject: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq In a message to Astral Invader <20 Apr 92 10:22> Pale Rider wrote: >AI> How exactly do YOU interpret Crowley?...I'm still working on that one PR> I interpret him to be a genius, a lunitic, a nut, and highly evil. Such Remanifestation! Ah, to be spoken of so fondly by fundies the world over... Or, as they said about Lord Byron - "Mad, bad, and dangerous to know!" Cheerios! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phule Area: Base of Set To: Azrael 22 Apr 92 19:51:00 Subject: Re: left-hand? UpdReq It's like a combination of that and the Cannon Report. Fnord! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phule Area: Base of Set To: Azrael 22 Apr 92 19:52:00 Subject: hi UpdReq I plan on picking it up nextime the let me out. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAhahahahahahahahahaha.................... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phule Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 22 Apr 92 19:54:00 Subject: Re: What is Satanism? UpdReq Watch out for the middle roaders. It hurts when you hit one of em who 'stands Tall' 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Triple Six 23 Apr 92 00:55:00 Subject: Re: QUICKIE DEFINITIONS UpdReq TS> You read an article, or see the last 10 mins. of a television show, TS> then make all kinds of uninformed statements, as though you actually TS> knew what you were talking about. TS> TS> Refresh my memory, if you will--where did you see this article? It was in the Salt Lake City Messenger, March 1992, pg.4. The issue was on Mormon Leaders Fight Satanic Infiltration, and the article was Human Sacrifice?. Is that quote not true? Is it out of context? Please show me why people are getting upset over me quoting it. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 23 Apr 92 00:57:00 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq AI> We're just as sweet as gingerbread, aren't we?... Guess so, for a Satanist that is. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 23 Apr 92 19:32:12 Subject: Re: non-Christians not allowed! Sent UpdReq JM> I can see you are upset... how sad. Nope. Just ranting, everybody needs a hobby. ;) JM> Okay... I understand what you are saying... JM> just wait and see; when we all die, we can finally JM> find out the whole truth, fair? Let's just hope, in Fine. I studied reincarnation for 3 years almost exclusively including a lot of case histories and some hypnosis. The good news is, you'll be alright too, if a bit surprised... JM> input... If you are trying to scare me or threaten JM> me, it doesn't seem JM> to work... I am told in the Word of God that I will suffer for being JM> a Christian... that is part of the job.! Adios! Not me, just tired of hearing the same shit over and over. The excuse that you'll suffer for god gets nowhere except in your own mind. Be miserable all your life if you choose, but you're wasting your breath on a satanic echo. We've heard it all before, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...... /s 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: Base of Set To: Dirge 21 Apr 92 10:37:32 Subject: ENLIGHTENMENT UpdReq Oops, sorry, I must have misdirected that reply. Azrael, if you missed that message, let me know so I can repost. Balanone PP 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: Base of Set To: Puck 20 Apr 92 21:23:36 Subject: Re: Set... UpdReq On 17 Apr 92 15:32:10, Puck posted a message to The Sinistar concerning "Set..."... P> Just a quick question -- are we talking about Set as a so-called 'god P> of evil', or the way he seemed to be worshipped - that of the P> personification of the encroaching desert to the Nile? I've been P> curious about that, as I had thought Setianism had been an off-shoot P> of Satanism, a la LeVeys' Church. Butting in, I think you'll find most people on this echo answer "no" to those questions. The Set referenced by the Temple of Set is related to the ancient Egyptian god, but shall we say that our modern view of him is "updated"? Set as a "god of evil" was primarily a demonification of Set by the Osiris sect as they (successfully) attempted to gain political and religious power in Egypt. Set as the encroaching desert was a natural phenomenon connected to the more esoteric aspects of the Form. Set as viewed by most Setians today is symbolically an extraterrestrial (probably non-physical) intelligence, who was able to give mankind (genetically or magically) a special Gift that enables us to question, reason, and advance mentally far beyond more "natural" animals. He sponsors, supports, and sometimes even rewards independent thinking and action. Whether Setians believe in the actual existence of such a being is another question ... Balanone PP ... It's always darkest just before you step on the cat's tail. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: Base of Set To: Diane Vera 20 Apr 92 21:25:32 Subject: Re: ToS and "Nature" UpdReq On 19 Apr 92 10:05:18, Diane Vera posted a message to Balanone concerning "Re: ToS and "Nature""... DV> On April 6, you replied to my April 4 message to you "Re: ToS and DV> 'Nature'": DV> . DV> Anyhow, as I said, I do agree that Christianity is RHP if > one defines "RHP" as any religion or philosophy which > aims to make the individual a part of something larger > than oneself, at the expense of individuality as long as > (1) the "something larger than oneself" is not > necessarily the natural universe and (2) the individual's > consciousness is either subordinated *or* "merged", but > not necessarily "merged". DV> . Ba> We're saying basically the same thing. The > differences between our views here seem to be fairly > minor, in that you see distinctions that are important to > you (distinctions which I'm willing to grant are probably > important to Christians), and I've determined that for me > those distinctions aren't important (that the Christians > are misleading themselves in that area). DV> . DV> No, I'm not talking about a distinction which is important just to DV> me personally, or just to Christians. I'm talking about not DV> sounding like a religious illiterate. (That type of comment is not like you.) DV> Anybody who knows anything DV> about comparative religion knows that the aim of Christianity is NOT DV> "to merge the individual consciousness with the natural Universe". If you look strictly at their own terms and their own discussions, then I agree. But if you start out with the Setian (and common Satanic?) assumption that there is no "God", and if you explore the consequences of that which they are attempting to do (follow the will of a non-existent god) from that (Setian) point of view, then the result of success *is* the merging of the individual consciousness with the natural Universe (or the loss of that individuality to the natural and mechanistic / unthinking universe). DV> . DV> By the way, did you see the string of 4 messages I posted to you on DV> April 12, with the following titles? Yes, I did. I've been downloading and responding to echo mail less frequently, trying to reduce its impact on my time, and so "received" the mail on 4/15. I then went out of town, and "responded" to it while away, finally uploading those responses last night. You should have received them in "yesterday's" echo mail to you. Sorry for the delay, but I have several high priority projects going on, and echo mail will be taking a back seat from time to time. Balanone PP ... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: Base of Set To: Nrrys 20 Apr 92 21:28:16 Subject: Re: Visibility UpdReq On 18 Apr 92 11:17:00, Nrrys posted a message to Ammond Shadowcraft concerning "Re: Visibility"... N> I wonder if you at one point in your life considered yourself to be a N> Discordian? You seem to have a good grasp of it, anyways. There was an N> interesting thread over in Magicknet where people were saying that the N> Discordian attitude that it is OK (or even a necessary duty) to mess N> with people's heads is fascist. My memory of that thread differs from yours. I looked upon it as an attempt to differentiate a) responsible and progressive / constructive Discordianism on one hand (a practice which has its benefits) from b) irresponsible and childish / destructive Discordianism. That leads us to your other comment, that N> I find it interesting that many (most?) of the N> "Satanists" here seem to have a stricter ethical code than me. Some N> even seem to be "tied in knots" from it. I consider ethical rules to be N> necessary for those who haven't evolved beyond a certain point. What do you mean by an ethical code, or ethical rules? I don't think we have any rules of behavior written down in a book, if that's what you mean. But yes, we have examined the types of behaviors we consider acceptable for ourselves, and we work to live up to (or exceed, if we can) our own standards. Balanone PP ... Never test for an error condition you don't know how to handle. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: Base of Set To: Astral Invader 20 Apr 92 19:31:12 Subject: Re: What is Satanism? UpdReq On 15 Apr 92 13:16:00, Astral Invader posted a message to Nrrys concerning "Re: What is Satanism?"... Nr> Hmm... I thought that Setians believe in the literal existance of Nr> Set? AI> AI> Generally speaking, the Priesthood views Set as a 'literal' AI> entity....however 'literal' is certainly definable even in this AI> area... That's for sure! Even with my long membership and wide correspondence within the Temple of Set, I was surprised at the variation in the Priesthood's views concerning Set expressed in the _Ruby Tablet_ article on Initiation and Recognition distributed at last year's Conclave. Balanone PP ... On the 8th day, the Corps of Engineers started changing everything. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Lady Byron Area: Base of Set To: Dirge 21 Apr 92 15:59:44 Subject: Temple of the Vampire UpdReq D> Does anybody know anything about the Order of the Vampire/Temple of Ur D> which has been advertising in Black Flame etc. lately? Their ad says D> "Vampires Exist-- Join Us!" I'd be interested in getting input from D> anybody who's forked over the $100 for the full information packet. D> Does it seem worth it? Thanks. The Temple of the Vampire (not to be confoozed with the Order of the Vampyre within the Temple of Set) is, apparently, an organization that makes a religion out of sucking the life force out of other people from the astral plane to attain immortality. It is my personal position that this is extremely unnecessary and stupid. If you want to spend $100 for that, it's up to you. I wouldn't recommend it. (Well, you asked!) Lady Byron :)= 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Base of Set To: Jeff Mccord 23 Apr 92 04:23:10 Subject: Re: satan UpdReq quoting jeff mccord to rfc JM>Fr> And while we're speaking of it; which "Satanists" here have insisted JM>Fr> that JM>Fr> "Satan will win"? JM> Well, I haven't heard a satanist specifically say that - but why don't you think it would be better if you could cite an instance of such, before you siad that JM>would you all want to serve a god that is not victorious? #1: you are assuming that we serve a god #2: you assume such a diety would not be victorious in actuality: I AM ALONE, THERE ARE NO GODS WHERE I AM JM>Jesus is my God. Jesus beat satan when he rose from the JM>dead... Why wouldn't you serve something that would not you make more assumptions #1: jesus is a diety << i don't recall that in the nt or ot or pseudopigraphia or apocrapha or philokalia << greek or russian >> #2: jesus actually died on a cross #3: that he actually rose again #4: that such an act would of neccesity defeat satan #5: that the xian satan is what our beliefs/practices consist of #6: that your diety would win JM>win? Or do all satanists want to burn in hell with satan? #7: that there is a hell #8: that that hell is a place of burning #9: that the xian satan will be in that hell etc, etc, etc. either A> read more of your chosen path or B> read more of the diversified beliefs we have before you start making such assumptionas Xeper jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * type checking in C = enough bits on the stack 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718