From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Templeton Hyde 29 Mar 92 23:34:00 Subject: Re: Personal Preservation vs mass murder, 2 of 3UpdReq TH> > Now, let's look back in Exodus 2, again with this story TH> concerning TH> > Moses. TH> > In verse 11, the Egyptian was beating the Hebrew. Keep in mind, TH> these TH> > Hebrews were in bondage under the Pharaoh, the Egyptians. Let's TH> look TH> > closer at verse 11, "He saw the Egyptian beating a Hebrew, ONE OF TH> > HIS OWN PEOPLE." That is the key right there. Is was one of Moses TH> own TH> > people. Now, read Genesis 9:5,6 again, where it talks about being TH> a TH> > man's brother or kinsmen. That is the reason that Moses hid the TH> body, TH> > because they were the slaves being persecuted by the Egyptians, TH> and TH> > under the law in Genesis he did the right thing. If Moses had not TH> had TH> > killed the Egyptian, the Egyptian wouldn't have stopped beating TH> the TH> > Hebrew. I am sure that the Hebrew had more than a scratch on him, TH> and TH> > since it was the higher Egyptian, the Hebrew probably wasn't even TH> > fighting back. TH> TH> you're twisting the words in an old storybook around to fit your own TH> ends. TH> you're reinterpreting everything so it will fit in with what you want TH> to believe, and viciously attack the "sects" and "cults" who are TH> doing the same thing. You say I'm twisting Scriptures. Please show me where I twisted the Scriptures! Please show me where I went wrong! I think you and a few others in here are just mad because they haven't been able to find Scriptures to use against me. Certain people are mad because I understand the proper context. TH> > Now, under the laws in the New Testament, we are no longer to do TH> > this. God is to be the one to take revenge. TH> TH> a god of revenge? i thought he was a sort of god of love, asexually As I have said many times before. God has two sides. One side is a side that is filled with so much wrath that the wicked will search for death, but not be able to find it. And then there is a side of love that equal's God's wrath. God has a side that is so loving, that He sent His only Son to die on the cross for the sins of men. God is so loving that He is willing to take you back, if you just come to him, no matter what you have done in the past. God's love has no end; God's love is unmeasurable! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Templeton Hyde 29 Mar 92 23:48:00 Subject: Re: Satanism in General UpdReq TH> normal, you mean? good times, bad times? sometimes out on a weird TH> trip, sometimes on the blues with "when i think of all the good time TH> that i've wasted having good times"? NORMAL! a normal life! ups, TH> downs, excesses, periods of relative sanity and then a binge from TH> time to time. what's wrong with that, too unpredictable?? I want no part of that type of like that you and so many others dub as 'normal'. TH> ahhh, an alcohol-drinking rock'n'roller is your demon-in-the-closet That isn't my demon in the closet. It was just the start of some of my problems. There is stuff that I won't even go into, because it won't do a bit of good anyway. TH> or however you wish to call it? so you locked part of your TH> personality away and hope it will never reappear again? read TH> stevenson's Dr. Jekyll story and then think about how every part of TH> you wnats out from time to time. why not let them? I didn't lock that personality up. Hey, man! I killed that part of me, when I became born-again. The old past away, and in with the new. When a person really becomes born-again, they are made a new creature in Jesus Christ. You can usually see the difference in their life. God can take away the problems like alcoholism or smoking to the point that you have no desire to take part in that stuff. If you are really sexually active, He can take the youthful lusts away, if you want him too, like He did with me. He can totally change your life on the inside. TH> > My church is boring. But, hey man, I get blessed driving down the TH> > road in my car!!!!!!!!!!!!! TH> TH> which would be a sure sign of a) independent thinking and b) TH> ego-centered "magic" instead of xtian community-centered hype. am i TH> all that wrong? Wrong! I have a very low opinion of myself. I have very low self-esteem. I am a nobody without God! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Templeton Hyde 30 Mar 92 00:17:00 Subject: Re: Satanism in General UpdReq TH> LB> Do YOU follow your faith from fear, or love? TH> LB> What good our devotion, to any god, if it is from fear? TH> LB> [fear] isn't the emotion that truly makes people TH> LB> love...or want to be their best in my opinion... TH> TH> you still haven't answered Linda's questions so far [though i am a TH> few days behind], even though you quote them. still pondering? Ok! You want the answer; you aren't going to like it. Hell didn't scare me, even though I knew for a fact it was real. Without God, my life was already hell. I didn't think that it could get any worse. The glory of heaven and knowing that there definitely was a real heaven didn't save me either. What saved me was really beginning to understand the LOVE of Jesus Christ. Understanding that Jesus died for each person on an individual basis is what brought me to Christ. Knowing that Jesus said He would leave the 99 to try to save the 1, is what got me saved. Understanding the fullness of the suffering that Jesus went through for me during the trial and crucifixion is what got me saved! That is why I am sold out for Christ! TH> reread the message and think for a while. just how an you classify TH> some groups (who have teachings you don't agree with) classify as TH> cults, while you classify your own nazarene sect a "church"? would TH> such a definition not insinuate that xtianity is a huge jewish cult? You are getting into an area that you obviously no nothing about. (Man, it seems like I've said that before.) I have been studying different cults for several years. I have 2 sets of books that were given to me BY SDAs. I am currently working with a WHOLE ECHO of LDS people, who are giving me the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. I am working with a JW in our local area. I am working with one SDA in California and one in my area. I have over 25+ txt files on JW's and 25+ on LDSs. I have a 592 page book on problems with Mormonism. I have seen several books on other beliefs and books on cults, so I know how they are grouped! I have the Scripture references that conflict with some of the doctrines with JW, LDS, SDA, and the RCC. I have looked for flaws in my own denomination's doctrines. How much research have YOU DONE ON THE DIFFERENT denominations???????????????? TH> PR> Those that teach there is going to be no eternal torment, but TH> preach TH> PR> annilation, are also sects. Both JWs and Adventists teach this. TH> But TH> PR> these teaching go totally against the Bible. TH> TH> they reinterpret it in their own way. SO DO YOU. You are wrong. You have know idea what you are talking about. Problems with interpretation is with some of the lesser doctrines among the Protestant churches. The RCC, JW, and LDS teach doctrines that aren't even in the Bible, and that usually conflict with the Bible. I go strictly by the Bible. I look for what the Bible says. In fact, I don't even have a Church Manual for my denomination. I don't even do much learning in my church, because usually have already ran across that Scripture before. TH> calvinism, etc. would you say catholic teachings go against the TH> bible? they have many brilliant scholars researching the bible. how TH> can you think you _know_ which interpretation is correct? I have stated that I am against alot of the teachings of the RCC many a times before. The Bible has a system of checksums, so that you can tell when a sect or cult has a doctrine that is majorly wrong. We aren't talking about flat out theological stuff. The conflicts are so easy that even a 12 year old could understand the problem when given the references. God didn't make the Bible where you have to have a doctorate to understand it! TH> and belief shouldn't stem from "this is what my church says" or from TH> "this is what xtian scientists have found out". I go by what the Bible says, and what the Bible says only. I don't follow what the preacher says. In fact, I have had several disagreements with my pastor. TH> PR> You have to make sure what Bible scholars you are going by. There TH> PR> is alot of Bible-twisting seminaries out there. TH> TH> ever thought about how your own group may be doing just the same TH> thing? twisting the words so they fit in with a particular system? TH> people interpreting the bible can find just about any meaning they TH> want to find, then tell other people "our scientists say this is it" TH> and found a new "church". My denomination and most Protestant denominations don't twist Scriptures. Bible-twisting begins when you start getting theological without taking stuff in black or what in the proper context, reading everything around the verse in question. I know what Bible-twisting methods are like. I know how certain sects and cults deceive people, and my denomination does not use these methods. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Triple Six Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 29 Mar 92 17:04:30 Subject: Christian Crime UpdReq In a message to Triple Six <29 Mar 92 01:46> Pale Rider wrote: >TS> Do you resist evil? >TS> What is evil? You failed to answer my questions regarding abortion and Hitler's Final Solution. Cheers! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 30 Mar 92 06:44:00 Subject: Re: Christian Crime UpdReq PR> Jesus did not resist. He did nothing to defend himself. He even PR> rebuked one of his disciples for cutting off the ear of one of the Hmmmm...... It mentions that "Peter, having a sword, drew it". Wonder why one of Jesus's disciples was wearing a sword? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Base of Set To: Pale Rider 30 Mar 92 06:57:00 Subject: Re: Satanism in General UpdReq PR> Wrong! I have a very low opinion of myself. I have very low PR> self-esteem. I am a nobody without God! Reminds me of a joke I heard on Torah Forum. Two Rabbis were in the Temple. They approach the "altar" and begin to weep and rend their clothes, beat their chests. "I'M NOBODY, I'M NOBODY!", they wailed. A streetsweeper came forward and bowed his head and said in a barely audible voice "I'm nobody". One Rabbi nudged the other and said, "Look who thinks he's nobody!" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azrael Area: Base of Set To: Frater Almost 30 Mar 92 08:58:00 Subject: Re: left-hand? Rec'd UpdReq ok 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azrael Area: Base of Set To: Frater Almost 30 Mar 92 09:11:00 Subject: Re: left-hand? Rec'd UpdReq In responce let me say paragraph, I am aware of my choice in alias'.eem so fond of saying enlightenment comes from within. However...please allow me to remind you that understanding MUST, and always will come before enlightenment. For instance, since I can only understand about 60% of what you stated in paragraph (2) I can not be enlightened by it and it becomes useless jargon. While it my have meaning and significance to yourself and others it is without meaning and therefore merit to one that does not understand your ways. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Triple Six 31 Mar 92 00:36:00 Subject: Re: Christian Crime UpdReq TS> You failed to answer my questions regarding abortion and Hitler's TS> Final Solution. Well, as far as the abortion is concerned. Abortion is feticide. The suffix -cide is the killing of, Example: Pesticide is the killing of a pest, or more to the point insect. So, abortion is the killing of a fetus. The Ten Commandment says "Thou shalt not kill." This being applied to people. And according to the Bible in both Greek and Hebrew text, an unborn was still considered a child in the actually Greek and Hebrew words. And everyone will admit that a child is in fact a person. So, we should prevent the killing of another. The unborn child can't protect himself, so others must protect that right to live. As far as Hitler goes, God does not condemn wars. In fact, there will even come a battle in the future that will be the battle of Armageddon (hill of Meggido). The Bible says to turn the other cheek and to not take revenge, but it says nothing about letting someone KILL YOU, if it is to the death, you are to protect yourself, because a Christian's body is the temple of God. Does the verses in question give any hint about someone trying to kill you? No. It talks about going the extra mile, etc.... However, in the question of persecution, there is a different story. Jesus did not resist the soldiers in the garden of Gethsemene. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pale Rider Area: Base of Set To: Frc 31 Mar 92 00:43:00 Subject: Re: Christian Crime UpdReq Fr> PR> Jesus did not resist. He did nothing to defend himself. He even Fr> PR> rebuked one of his disciples for cutting off the ear of one of Fr> the Fr> Fr> Hmmmm...... Fr> It mentions that "Peter, having a sword, drew it". Fr> Fr> Wonder why one of Jesus's disciples was wearing a sword? When you are in an untamed area or an area that has a major possibility of wild animals, you might want to have something to defend yourself. When I went out in the woods with my friends Saturday night, I was carrying a flashlight, a cheap Pakistani knife, and tear gas. If I got close enough to dogs or something out there, the knife was my means for defense. However, if we got in a dangerous situation with pouchers and got close to them, I would have used the tear gas, not the knife; so that I would not cause permanent harm to them. Now, the disciples were in a lot more open area than I was Friday Night, and I don't think that the disciples had access to less harmful means of protection like tear gas. This is the way I look at it, someone can kill me, but when other people are involved, I will not hesitate to defend! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Base of Set To: Lady Byron 31 Mar 92 16:30:56 Subject: Boleskine Sent UpdReq LB> You could have taken me, you know. LB> LB> Lady Byron Seriously? (Just kidding, Markie, just kidding.) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Base of Set To: Charles Nemo 31 Mar 92 19:28:18 Subject: Boleskine Rec'd Sent UpdReq LB> You could have taken me, you know. LB> You could have taken me, you know. LB> LB> Lady Byron CN> CN> Seriously? (Just kidding, Markie, just kidding.) Sure you are! Think I'll go out and max your credit cards to teach you a lesson... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718