From: Gerald Del Campo Area: RPSTOVAL To: Chris Feldman 5 Apr 92 21:22:10 Subject: Re: Thelema without Christianity In a message dated 04 Apr 92 15:54:56, Chris Feldman wrote: -=> Gerald Del Campo sent a message to Anyone on Mon 30 Mar 92 16:31 <=- -=> Thelema without Christianity <=- GDC> What would Thelema be like if Christianity had not come first? GDC> Does Thelema exist on the premise that Christianity came first, or can GDC> it stand up on its own? GDC> If the Aeon of Horus had come right after the Aeon of Isis how would GDC> that change the interpretation of Liber AL? GDC> Does anyone out there perceive Horus as the character described in The GDC> New Testament as "The Second Coming"? CF> I find this a strange construct, more along the lines of a mental CF> exercise CF> than a serious quest-ion. To my mind, it's like asking what a train CF> schedule CF> would be like if evening came right after morning. The answer is CF> obviously CF> that things would be different, we can't really know how, and if we CF> wanted CF> to we could try to hazard some guess as to what the difference would CF> be. CF> Not that we'd know it, since we would have no concept of something CF> missing. But it is NOT missing, and we DO know it, and that's my point. CF> The "Osirian Age" is not an extrapolation from Xianity, rather CF> Xianity is CF> a manifestation of the "Osirian Current". "When it's time for steam- CF> trains, CF> it steam-trains." -Fort. The same applies, of course, to Thelema. CF> No offense, but it seems like an exercise in mental masturbation to CF> me. This CF> doesn't invalidate it, of course. (Just lessens the appeal.) No offense taken, however, I feel that the question has validity. In order for us to manifest Thelema in the everyday world we have to have some kind of idea of what Thelema is. No one is talking about what a Thelemic world would be like. How we would handle the environmental crisis, health care, mundane things of that nature. My question was designed to find out what people thought Thelema was, and whether or not it needed to have Xtianity as its forerunner or if it could stand on its own without it. Paul has asnwered the question quite intelligently. 93 ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: RPSTOVAL To: Rebis 5 Apr 92 21:28:10 Subject: Re: "DO WHAT THOU WILT" In a message dated 04 Apr 92 08:18:25, Rebis wrote: R> We may be comparing apples and oranges here. There _may_ be no R> difference between true will and adapting to circumstances. A R> magician may do both the things you mentioned, i.e. changing his/her R> environment to suit his/her will, and adapting him/herself to achieve R> harmony with his/her environment. These things may not be as R> different as they sound. In any case, I think the operative word in R> any decision where true will is in question is _choice_. It was my intention to illustrate that there IS no difference between adapting and changing. Not aples and oranges...oranges and oranges :) Sometimes choices don't apply. Suppose (this is a very vague circumstance and used only for the sake of argument) the world environment became such that you could not survive in it but toads could. It would be advantageous to become a frog, but since man is not physically capable of becoming one he has no choice. On the other hand, if a magician was "strong" enough to manipulate the environment in a way which would sustain human life, then why isn't anyone doing it and succeeding? ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: RPSTOVAL To: Gerald Del Campo 6 Apr 92 09:01:12 Subject: Re: RPSTOVAL Sent UpdReq GDC>GDC>yet...I beleive that the key is in that grided page GDC>GDC>however, and that the RPSTOVAL part is the secret. I have GDC>GDC>to keep trying different things with it until something GDC>GDC>clicks :) Have you done any similar Work? GDC> TI> I have GDC>Anything you could share with the rest of us? Or would GDC>that fall under the "keep your interpretations to yourself" GDC>legislation? It definitely falls under said legislation, but when has tht ever stopped me? I'll type something up this week, if the Feast days let me. 93! * SLMR 2.1a * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718