From: Peter Bradie Area: Public Key Encryption To: Bruce Bozarth 27 Mar 95 20:19:06 Subject: Bluewave & pgp UpdReq -=> Quoting John Stephenson to Bruce Davis <=- BD> Try PGPWave, available from 613-354-4295. I believe that the actual BD> filename is something like pgpw107a.zip... JS> The latest of the late is v1.08a, I messed up and had it giving up JS> v1.07a in the FREQLIST but it's fine now. Bruce, is this a resident of Aardvark Park? ... One man's technicality is another's constitutional right. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Babcock Area: Public Key Encryption To: JOHN ROMAN 27 Mar 95 16:35:00 Subject: Golded @enc: PGP UpdReq [PGP SIGN CLEAR] John said something about Re: Golded @enc: PGP to Michael on 03-25-95 11:52 ... JR> (John Roman uses PGP) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hmm, AUTO-PGP says you should sign your text :) JR> Interesting...I wonder if you could set it up to toss them to JR> NUL? (While I'm kidding, I'm sure it's been tried). It says that it is not advisable to simply erase all of this alternately tossed email, but that it IS possible... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Babcock Area: Public Key Encryption To: DONALD PRICE 27 Mar 95 16:36:00 Subject: In response to bye!/2 UpdReq [PGP SIGN CLEAR] Donald said something about Re: In response to bye!/2 to Marius on 03-25-95 07:34 ... DP> *AUTOPGP-WARNING:* Bad signature, doesn't match file contents! DP> Bad signature from user "Donald R. Price <1:205/18@FidoNet.org>". DP> Signature made 1995/03/25 15:34 GMT Just wondering ... :) Maybe the message got tangled, or worse, i've got a bad public key ... later. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Babcock Area: Public Key Encryption To: JOHN STEPHENSON 27 Mar 95 16:36:00 Subject: Inquiry UpdReq [PGP SIGN CLEAR] John said something about Inquiry to Donald on 03-26-95 02:27 ... JS> 2.7mit - Uses RSAREF, illegal in the states. JS> 2.6.i - Uses the real RSA, legal in other places. They both have 'the real RSA', but just the non RSAREF ones are bound to the 1024bit keys, etc. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jeffrey Bloss Area: Public Key Encryption To: Andy Hayes 29 Mar 95 14:46:00 Subject: Poker? UpdReq AH>> JB>five and sends the rest to the next player. The last player (not AH>> JB>including the dealer) picks five for him/her self and five for the AH>> JB>dealer. AH>> This little 'game' sounds exteremly cool!!!!!! Where'd ya get AH>> such an interesting idea? Books. :) It's not my brainchild, it's not even a "new" concept. What I would like to do is adapt the protocol to be used inside the "no encrypted messages" context of this echo. Every mental poker scheme I've come across requires that the various hands be sent to each player in a totally encrypted message. I'd like to find a way to prevent the dealer and other players from "cheating" by way of prior knowledge of the other's hands without encryption... My next best guess is PGP signed messages that contain CRC or hash values for the cards, and some sorta "index" that's also made tamper-proof with PGP signatures. jbloss@meadville.com -=- 1:2601/551.0 -=- ->5317 PGP v2.6.2 public encryption key available by request. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jeffrey Bloss Area: Public Key Encryption To: John Schofield 29 Mar 95 16:24:00 Subject: Poker? 1/2 UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- JS>> JB> The whole idea behind "mental poker" is to allow one party to JS>> JB> participate as a dealer and still maintain a secure protocol. JS>> Yes, but that dealer shouldn't be trusted--as I assumed from your messages JS>> was. If I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. ARRRRRRGH! :) Maybe it's me, but there seems to be a gap somewhere. Think about this for a second: JS>> JB> My idea was to try and develop a mental poker protocol that did not JS>> JB> lean on session keys and/or encrypted messages, yet reduced or JS>> JB> eliminated the need for a trusted dealer. I wanted to play with With me so far? JS>> JB> something that could be implemented within the confines of this JS>> JB> conference, and I chose mental poker because it's namesake is a bit JS>> If your protocol does not lean on (does not use?) encrypted messages, it JS>> probably does not belong on this echo--and as a side note, if it does not AFAIK, encrypted messages do not belong in this echo either. Signed messages yes, and possibly detached signatures or hash values of other messages or "cards". The idea is to modify something, make it FIDO compatible, workable, and keep it as secure as possible. This arena dictates different rules than those governing the implementation in Applied Cryptography. JS>> encryption, I don't believe it could work. What exactly do you mean by "l JS>> on" encryption? Traditional mental poker is built around encrypting and re-encrypting the "cards" with public/private key pairs or dedicated session keys so that the players and the dealer have no previous knowledge of the other players' hand. The necessary "blindness" is accomplished through encryption that's non grata in FIDO. We can blind the players by using "meaningless" CRC/HASH/SIGNATURE values to represent the cards, but the dealer, having previous knowledge of these bi-directional (in dealer terms) values, can set up a "cheat" with any other player(s). How do we get around this, but not use encrypted messages? JS>> JB> frivolous exercise, you can *always* move on to the next message... JS>> On the contrary, I am posting on this thread because I think playing aroun JS>> with a mental poker protocol could be very interesting and useful. But th Then consider the question 7 lines up. :) JS>> are enough very interesting unsolved problems out there that solving an JS>> already solved one bothers me. As far as I know this particular MP (for short) implementation has not been solved... or attempted. :) JS>> Here's a description of mental poker with three players, although it could Yes, I have the book... read it 6 or 8 times and I still crack it open from time to time. :) Go back and review the section you quoted. How do we replace all those "encrypts" with something we can use right here, right now? Can we devise a pre-published or player-published, signed "index" to the hash values and the cards they represent? Is it possible to obscure the cards from the dealer's perspective using only PGP file/message signatures? Would attempting something using detached signatures at LEAST have value as an exercise in another aspect of our favorite encryption utility? Is there another way?? It was my hope that tossing around these questions might provide some insight into the #1 threat against modern crypto. Mathematically, we can devise secure systems that are unbreakable under specific time constraints. Resourceful codebreakers attack protocols and peripherals rather than invest millions in equipment and generations in man/hours. To be honest, the success or failure of one meaningless little project is a moot point, as is the discussion of whether we should even try. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: -=[ Privacy Through Random Acts Of Encryption ]=- iQCVAwUBL3nP8OkStfMM4BMZAQFkzQP+NgfUyzFgR6y1XdE4w4GmDAhabmCkXSnB Ne6YgXu96VBOcVW3o7d8tZcP8jhLz6Zjgg0W3dFo6GV2adVfvhLTXhGiX8V7AwV9 b0fgYWTR6elOlxWh5qhIdQ8VVGGaI4hGiW2mSF454K1+VH6hiSrnxbjJZLArYghz (Continued to next message) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jeffrey Bloss Area: Public Key Encryption To: John Schofield 29 Mar 95 16:24:00 Subject: Poker? 2/2 UpdReq (Continued from previous message) PyGkWZBGHw8= =jw6s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- jbloss@meadville.com -=- 1:2601/551.0 -=- ->5317 PGP v2.6.2 public encryption key available by request. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Richard Wallen Area: Public Key Encryption To: Michael Babcock 29 Mar 95 12:21:00 Subject: Re: Bluewave & PGP UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- - -=>On 21 Mar 95 15:46, Michael Babcock retorted to BRUCE DAVIS<=- - -=>about Bluewave & PGP<=- Hello Michael, MB> Bruce said something about Bluewave & PGP to Peter on 03-18-95 04:59 [...] BD> In Short...BEWARE OF PGP BLUE...DO NOT SEND IN MONEY unless you BD> are sure that the author will support his product. I'm a BD> registered user and haven't been able to get support yet! MB> Guess i'll just keep using the fairly-functionnal SW version MB> then... MB> Used anything better? So far I am very pleased with the functionality of this PgpWave I just picked up from Chris Baker's system today. Try it, you'll like it! Richard Wallen Key fingerprint = 77 81 5C 65 09 98 A2 D7 FD 38 DE F8 B0 5F 45 EF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Secure it On-Line iQCVAwUBL3mlNMxX6r8hBsrFAQFVVgQAu8p8dRC6srItzMElUzXB+XWiy8/n9O0p WHQazrsvQXW3x8PkiUzyoOTrMz/e/MnpBzLAkd+spmJgyzmFse7JkUI6a5XkdtGD luKUlsT5gYPMU0uYGJ8e/Z7QQLLGbTiDC2Shu5nbn4feq+9wzvdfIUscrZaLGavA Wjp40W7WnZA= =OnZM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ... My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship ... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Richard Wallen Area: Public Key Encryption To: John Stephenson 29 Mar 95 12:01:00 Subject: PGPWave UpdReq -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Greetings John! I just wanted to say, ThanX! for your efforts... I installed this PgpWave 1.08 just today which replaced my previously limited batch file for interaction with BlueWave and Pgp... allowing me upto 3 seperate addressees' for encryption, or clearsig messages. to the mirage of options given with your program. Thanks again! Alittle more each day... Richard -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Secure it On-Line iQCVAwUBL3mghMxX6r8hBsrFAQEnyQP/TYTRZptig78OSzi28AcaWU7n6IwFqhQD VwjH75kQaEBK3m0NCZ52o2qolghnKATcF2JtUT9C3NPmdghaqz7HX8s3z2g8KxYQ 5OhIVqecKcJGOQmceLr8GJHQLUXWoBCkR28TgIxlxZ1hFqc0qyXzZzbXpZk2kUyY kg/nUwoGtMU= =SRc4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ... Economists do it with "the Other hand..." 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718