From: Vitriol Area: THE_OASIS To: Diane Vera 25 Apr 92 00:44:08 Subject: Re: Pentagrams Rec'd UpdReq -=> Diane Vera sent a message to All on 18 Apr 92 21:18:12 <=- -=> Pentagrams <=- DV> So, I'm wondering: Did Anton LaVey (or perhaps Diane Hegarty, or DV> someone else in the early Church of Satan) invent the idea that the DV> downward-pointing pentagram is a Satanic symbol? It is my undocumentable recollection that the inverted pentagram, as being the pyramid reversed (ie: spirit subjugated by matter, rather than v/v), dates back at least to the 19th Century. I'm not sure when the idea to superimpose the inverted pentagram upon Eliphaz Levi's image of Baphomet was first coined. I first saw it done in about '66 or '67. 418 ... Return! For the work is ended, and the Book is shut! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: THE_OASIS To: Diane Vera 15 Apr 92 14:18:14 Subject: Re: Cross-posting Rec'd UpdReq * Reply to msg originally in Base Of Set Echo On 12 Apr 92 21:12:46, Diane Vera posted a message to Balanone concerning "Cross-posting"... DV> On April 5, you wrote me a message titled "Cross-posting" in DV> response to my April 4 message to Grendel in RUNES & ASATRU, DV> "Thorsson and ToS": DV> . DV> B > Diane, I note from the above that you aren't using an DV> offline reader. DV> . DV> No, I never bothered with one. What advantages does an off-line DV> reader have over just plain ASCII uploading and downloading, besides DV> greater ease in cross-posting? I do compose nearly all my messages DV> off-line, but I've been able to do so with no problem using just DV> plain ASCII uploading and downloading. I followed the ASCII download/upload route before encountering offline readers. I agree that most of what I do via BlueWave can be done through ASCII. In fact, I don't see why you should have any problem cross-posting, since that's just a second upload to an alternate message area or echo. The primary benefit I see to using an offline reader is that the downloading and uploading process is faster. The BBS selects the messages to be downloaded according to my specifications, compresses them, and downloads to me using zmodem (my choice). This communication process takes less time in this mode than an ASCII download of the same messages would. When I'm done with my responses, I upload them the same way. It takes me less than 2 minutes to upload a dozen messages, and I don't need to do anything during that time to indicate where the messages go. DV> Since this is off-topic, it might perhaps be best if you answered me DV> in OASIS. Done. With all the moving of messages between topics we've gone into, I feel like playing echo tag. You post in one echo, I respond in another, you respond in a third, etc... Balanone PP ... Badgers? We don't need no stinkin' badgers! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: THE_OASIS To: Diane Vera 20 Apr 92 21:31:24 Subject: Re: "Burdens" and "prisons" Rec'd UpdReq On 10 Apr 92 23:59:36, Vitriol posted a message to Diane Vera concerning "Re: "Burdens" and "prisons""... -=> Diane Vera sent a message to Vitriol on 05 Apr 92 10:29:09 <=- -=> "Burdens" and "prisons" <=- V> V> "Questions are a burden to others; answers are a prison for oneself." DV> But I can't help wondering why you feel this way. Diane, When I first saw that statement, I reviewed it to determine if it might be something that made sense to me, and this is what I thought about it: Questions are a burden to others in several ways. 1) It takes time to consider and answer questions. It takes time to consider whether or not to answer questions. That's a burden. 2) Many people are bothered by questions, not having what they consider to be answers (or not having faith in their answers). They are burdened by questions because such questions threaten their self-worth. 3) Our "teachers" (those who are best able to answer our questions) are burdened because they don't just toss out a quick response, but they take the time to answer questions so that the answers are meaningful to us, and so those answers lead to yet more questions. Doing that much work on someone else's question is a burden. Answers are a prison for many people, because once they have "the" answer, they stop questioning / questing. It takes a very special type of individual to realize that even answers need to be questioned, and that even verified answers are necessarily partial, and only serve to open up new questions. Those that don't seek out the new questions are imprisoned by their answers. Balanone PP ... Some people call me a cynic... Figures they'd say that. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: THE_OASIS To: Phule 20 Apr 92 21:34:06 Subject: Balanone UpdReq On 18 Apr 92 20:27:00, Phule posted a message to Nrrys concerning "Re: Trapezoi.TXT"... P> Hey, If YOU were posting under an alias so that you could deal with P> people with out them knowing who you were wouldn't YOU deny it? If I were really doing that, wouldn't I be posting under an alias that didn't look like an alias, so people wouldn't know I was posting under an alias? Since I'm obviously using an alias, it's a bit ridiculous for me to deny that I'm using an alias, unless by some chance this happens to not be an alias ... but no, I wouldn't do that, would I? P> I for P> on am of the opinion that that message was sent in conjunction with a P> subtle working designed to hypnotize it's readers. No, hypnotizing takes too long. P> When I read the P> message I noticed the protective rune on my computer glowing blue and P> generating heat. Darn! It was supposed to glow a nice, peaceful green, and I thought I had licked that heat problem two castings ago. Back to the drawing board! P> Neadless to say I was intrigued and saw the need for P> imediate actian. You didn't go to a dictionary by any chance, did you? P> I have run it through some of my Rube-golbergian semi P> scientific Erisian devices and have detected somthing interesting. I P> will post an excerpt of the message AFTER analysis. P> Ba> ... (mystical, magical quote dropped to save space) .... P> P> not that not only is their a fnord in the excerpt, their is a nordF, P> somthing I for one have never seen before and have only begun to P> analize. This would indicate a lage amount of knowledge about Erisian P> Magick. HMM. The intentional misspelling of "lage", the intentional dropping of the "r", and the intentional or unintentional dropping or confusing of other letters in the above paragraph leads me to believe you may have found a secret source for lager. P> Also I am working on an analysis of the name Balanone P> I have come up with the following in just a few hours work. P> P> Anagramed with misleads removed their appears BAAL. That's with one set of misleads removed. There are other sets, intersecting and non-, but you're doing fine so far. P> ANd notive that Balanone is Enonalab spelled backwards. There's no use following that line of investigation any further. I have enough trouble spelling forwards. Spelling sdrawkcab is darn near elbissopmi for me. P> That this is not in any of the Demonic Reference works I have P> collected is evidence that it is a particularlt secret Demon. Ah, you apparently didn't check the Daemonic References. P> Also, If you chane the a to an o you get P> Balonone. Clever isn't it. Yes, but why change the second "a" to another "o"? Why not change it to a letter not yet in use? I would have thought that the use of /two/ letters repeated /twice/ would have been more obvious, but you didn't mention that pattern. I note that you didn't attempt a numerological or gematric analysis of the alias. That's OK -- you probably wouldn't have used the same language I did when I developed the alias anyway. You also didn't make comment of the "PP" which is /always/ associated with the signature, and always in the same place. Does that make three repeated letters? No, it actually expands the concept into two twice-repeated words... But enough phuling around with my alias. I'll stop here, and will let someone else spend time looking into yours... Balanone PP ... Stupidity is _not_ a handicap! Park somewhere else. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: THE_OASIS To: Sis 20 Apr 92 21:39:46 Subject: Visit UpdReq Sis, Thanks for providing the access and letting me visit your BBS on my recent trip to San Diego. It was a pleasure C)hatting with you and the others. I hope to do so again when I return to San Diego towards the end of the year. Balanone PP ... The world is coming to an end -- please log off. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Sis Area: THE_OASIS To: Balanone 25 Apr 92 15:12:10 Subject: Re: VISIT UpdReq > Thanks for providing the access and letting me visit your BBS > on my recent trip to San Diego. It was a pleasure C)hatting > with you and the others. I hope to do so again when I return > to San Diego towards the end of the year. Enjoyed having you, hope you will be able to stay in town a bit longer next time! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: THE_OASIS To: Serpens 26 Apr 92 13:55:02 Subject: Re: PENTAGRAMS Sent UpdReq On April 20, you responded to my April 18 message to All, "Pentagrams": . S > Off the top of my head... - the GD definitely was down on averse pentagrams. The instruction in its use, symbolism, etc. was very strong on that point. There was no direct reference to Satanism, but I believe the bit abot symbolizing the ascension of the material over the spiritual was cited. - my own take on Reguli is that it is designed, by its substitution of Aeon of Horus symbols and sequences for cognate Aeon of Osiris elements, to "kick start" the Thelemic Current, as envisioned by AC, in the practitioner's aura/consciousness/whatever. .Interesting you should put it that way. The use of symbolism with Satanic or otherwise "evil" overtones seems to be an effective way of "kick-starting" a new religion generally. A prime example is Wicca, with its use of words like "witch", "coven", and "sabbat". (See the discussion about this in NIGHT_SIDE and PAGAN RELIGIOUS STUDIES.) . If this hypothesis is correct, then Crowley's use of the symbol denominated evil by Mathers would be a deliberate refutation of the GD teaching described above. (whether this represented an esoteric version of a Crowleyan "shocker," a deliberate magical break with the Osirian egregore of the GD, or another kick at Mathers for being another failed father-substitute for Crowley (or all of the above) is a decision each must make for themselves). - I am trying to remember if Dennis Wheatley (when comes such another(g)) refers to the averse 'gram in his "black magic" novels, which certainly predate LaVey. As far as I know, the Sigil of Leviathan originated with LaVey. Hmmm - ironic note: it is plastered on the front of Wheatley's late novel "The Satanist" (in a 1972 printing). In fact, the Leviathan sigil was used as the trademark on all Ballantine's "Black Magic Series" reprints of Wheatley. I assume they paid LaVey for the license? - certainly all the pentagrams in the grimoires were point-up (viz. the Goetia), as far as I know. Hmm - one source I would check is Levi. A lot of the neoromantic Satanic revival (as well as the neoromantic occult revival in general) traces back to the Levi. I'll do some digging there. It seems to me that pentagrams played a role in the Vintras/Boullan wiz-war of that period too, but their direction I do not recall. .I look forward to hearing about whatever you find, and will certainly add books by Levi to my "must buy" list. Which of his books do you especially recommend? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Area: THE_OASIS To: Poqui Hydjnw 16 Apr 92 01:31:00 Subject: Re: Name Our Religions UpdReq quizically, poqui hydjmw queried of jonathon PH>> Thus spake Jonathon to Poqui Hydjnw: PH> J> quoting poqui hybjnv to jonathon PH> J> ---- PH>;;; Quoth Jonathon to Poqui Hydjnw: PH> PH> J> quoting poqui hydjnw to paul hume PH> PH>Are you saying that there are amendments that were passed without state PH> J> 16th amendment for starters PH>I'll have to look that one up, I'm not immediately familiiar with the #1: no state legislature ever passed it #2: the person who had the role of president during those for years was not a citizen of the united states of america, and hence any and all legislation with his signiture on it was passed unconstitionally. PH> PH>Which legislation? Gratuitous assertions aside, what are the facts? PH>Where is this documented? Where did you get it from? the supreme court so ruled back in the days of tricky dick i don't have the specific case citation with me right now, tho << the odd thing is that tricky dick did not use it, to defend himself with >> 93 jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * ASCII and ye shall receive. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718