From: Frater Almost Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 21 Aug 92 01:12:58 Subject: Moderator Rec'd Sent UpdReq And I was heavy handed?! Markie! I'm hurt! :( ;) NOT! Well, if you all must have a moderator, I'm ready, willing, and able but, to my knowledge, NChSh is still secretly moderating it. :) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: * 21 Aug 92 13:33:52 Subject: Nox Theoria, In Defense of the Black ArtsSent UpdReq Self-Mastery Self-mastery is the path by which the magus obtains freedom. The ability to define her world is a far greater treasure than that of defining others' for them. In the creation of her own world,the threads of the cloth which make up her life are unwoven and rewoven. Those who define power by the influence of others, on the other hand, merely act in succession to replace the weaver and not the cloth itself. To master oneself is harder than to master others. Indeed, the mastery of others is relatively easy to achieve -- being based on a simple understanding of their motivations. But to delve into one's own motives complicates and enriches them, introducing into the weave a finer and far more elegant pattern than found in the lives of most others. It is that pattern which inspires and compels, even holding the awe of others around them. All must be measured by the individual self. Any attempt to do otherwise is an act of delusion, losing the self in its murky mirages. The will and desire of the self, however, are not necessarily, antithetical to the world. For it is through the world that we understand ourselves, gazing on a mirror which reflects our facets. The reactions we have to a situation tell us as much, if not more, about ourselves as it does others. How does one gaze on an image, filtered and distorted, and know it is not the true image? Self-mastery, then, is the art of bringing body-mind consciousness under the reign of the individual will. To alter the filter of perceptions through which we view this world. And to alter it in such manner that the results of our desire are brought forth. To control others then becomes trivial, no matter how engaging the prospect may seem. But the world is composed of trivialities. Advancement in the art of self-mastery brings gifts with it. Pleasures of the mind, discipline of the body, motivational understanding and the ability to inhabit any number of spaces along the human continuum. There is a special pleasure in understanding that one can be that which they thought they could not, and that one is not entirely defined by that which they thought they were. It is the nature of growth and expansion, like the unfolding petals of the new-born flower fresh with morning dew. Or the laughter of children ringing through the air, shifting moods readily as the chameleon; a kaleidoscope of enchanting colors, merging and separating to ensorcell the eye with its keen glamour. The magus, then, seeks mastery of the self, leading to wealth within and without. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: * 21 Aug 92 13:35:12 Subject: Nox Theoria, In Defense of the Black ArtsSent UpdReq The Erotic Universe The erotic universe is the ultimate goal of the magus. Transformed by emotinal alchemy, and other, (s)he hits an alien nirvana. It happens rarely, yet most are privileged to see a few snatches. It is a langorous, sexual sigh of the soul; of its truer, more carnal origins. (S)he reclaims the world in that moment and it becomes her mantle. Not the pearl, but the oyster which bears pearls. These moments flay her alive, yet caress with the intimate love of a divine dissatisfaction. To operate in this state brings Gaea's creative, fertil chaos and blows open self-created misconceptions in both the arts and the sciences. This is the arrogant, decadent magus -- (s)he applauds the individuality of the universe; (s)he is as rich and apart as it. Yet (s)he also holds its weakness... love of creation. Her heart breakswith each dying light, but soars with the possibilities it leaves behind. Creation anew. This is the loving, anguished magus -- (s)he sees the Savage Garden within everyone and cries for the artifact of fear which prevents their entrance. Her lesson: to teach others to be stronger if they would dare. Their response is silence or outrage. Ideas are dangerous, yet the most dangerous idea is autarchy. (S)he moves in mysterious, carefree ways. The lamp poles and tunnels obligingly transmute themselves into their carnal counterparts. And, Life! What could be more precious to her? Life flowing, bubbling, laughing with its poisonous toxins and resonant delights. Not the mordant death-masks of the already spiritually dead, with their perpetual static vibration of souls damned already by choice. Rather, embrace that which so horrifies in its agile transforms. Even the cup of bitters entertains an exotic taste for those willing to savor it. The erotic universe is encompassed in us all, and this is its universal appeal: that the terrors which make it seem so cruel lie by the side of those diaphanous fascinations, alluring us with a grotesque elegance. This is also its power: to pierce the veil of living flesh and disclose its secrets to the ears that press against it so furiously. It transforms, though the transformation may be as vague as a troublesome dissatisfaction or as violently blistering as a single, gentle touch. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: * 21 Aug 92 13:38:10 Subject: Nox Theoria, In Defense of the Black ArtsSent UpdReq Thus ends the segment, Nox_Theoria. As I have said before, I plan to bring this out in hard copy witha few extra items. Anyone interested may leave me an address and I'll keep it in mind. Feedback? Comments? Silence? Yes, silence. The circuits create, the circuits destroy.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: The Sinistar 21 Aug 92 15:27:10 Subject: Netherworld Sent UpdReq The merchandise was delivered after four to six weeks, and so I think you can rely on them. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Fra. Apfelmann 21 Aug 92 22:46:02 Subject: Johanna Wagner Sent UpdReq Couldn't find a listing in `Books in Print', which probably means there are no translations. :( Care to try a snail discussion? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 19 Aug 92 13:04:12 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq JC> JN> At what point does the symbol-set cease > JN> to be mythic? JC> Don't confuse the mythologizing function with the symbol-set; it's a >non-sequitur. The two may be related, but not necessarily >in an essential way. Hmmm. A symbol-set always has a reference, or else it's useless. Yes, the "map is not the territory", but what we associate with the symbol largely determines its usefulness. What associations are you offering in place of the "mythic" ones? * SLMR 2.1a * Cogito ergo dubito 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 19 Aug 92 19:50:14 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq AL>I hold that every view of the Universe is as valid as any >other. A.C. came up with some pretty good lines...Make no >difference between one thing and any other. Let sucsess be Lately I seem to have been drifting into the inverse of that ... that NO view of the Universe is true, even within its own frame of reference. I've never held with the idea that belief is necessary to magick, but being in this mindset -- or lack thereof -- doesn't make invocations any easier, that's fer sure! Oh, well, maybe its just a mental house-cleaning for the next stage, whatever the hell that turns out to be. * SLMR 2.1a * Facts? Don't bother me with facts! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 20 Aug 92 22:20:00 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq Thanks for your continued replies to my persistent questions. If so-called "chaos" magick isn't offering anything really new, I guess I'll just keep going my own way -- as if I ever did anything else! But you have been very helpful in clarifying the smog-ridden hot air put out by other chaoticists. I guess the problem all along has been that chaoticists put such extreme emphasis on some things that I have always taken as fundamental that I was wondering whether they were seeing something there that I wasn't. Apparently not. MC>Do you feel patterns of energy/force or whatever when you do magic? Is this a non sequitur, or are you leading up to something? Yes, I often do. The foundation of my own work was a sort of phenomenological astrology -- learning to detect the flows of planetary "energies" behind real-world events. This seems natural to me, and has carried over into my more conventionally "magickal" work. But the energetic aspect doesn't appear to be primary. Sometimes it is there, and sometimes not. And I'm not certain how to describe the aspects that are more consistently present. Let me try it this way: The appearance of a sense of "energy" in response to an invocation is always accompanied by something I can only term "quality", which is very abstract and not describable in terms of normal sensory experience. It is like a sense of a "trait", "character", or "attribute", but unconnected to any specific object or symbol, and lacking any identifiable form of its own. Sometimes a "quality" appears to have or be a color, but nothing more concrete than that. (This is very frustrating! I am calling up the experience of a "quality" while I'm writing this, and the experience is very clear when taken in its own terms, but it just doesn't translate well.) A "quality" has no form, and doesn't occupy a definite position or volume within either mundane or magickal space. Yet somehow, within the magickal space, it _creates_ forms, symbols, images, and energies that are consistent with its own nature. It brings these things out of itself, yet they are not itself. They are not the quality, but are merely the expression of it within a space where form and energy are possible of existence. I give up! If the above makes any sense to you, more power to you! The extent to which the quality is accompanied by a sense of energies, symbols, etc. varies widely depending on the particular system of magick I happen to be using. In Angelic (Enochian) invocations, there is almost always a strong energetic component present, which can be shaped and directed to many purposes. In Sephirotic invocations using the traditional Hebrew divine names, the energy component is less strong, and imagery of various sorts is more prominent. In invocations of Dee's "Angels of the Bonorum", the response is almost pure quality, and it is very difficult to get the qualities to take any form at all. * SLMR 2.1a * What does it all mean, Mr. Natural? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 20 Aug 92 13:13:02 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq MC>How about invoking geometrical shapes instead? No, I'm >serious! Old symbology applied differently, square for >purposes that would bring Mars to mind, etc. Could keep >you busy for a while working it out. Too late! But thanks. I already have associations for geometric shapes, again coming out of my astrological work, where "aspects" are based on the division of the circle by whole numbers, thus producing various regular 2-d figures. E.g., trines produce triangles, squares produce squares, quintiles produce pentagons, etc. And of course, being a cabalist, I also have all the traditional associations between the Sephiroth and the geometric figures, so that using them would just call up all the other stuff associated with the Sephira in question. * SLMR 2.1a * Politically correct: a Maoist in Liberal clothing. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 20 Aug 92 13:39:04 Subject: Wiccans vs. Ceremonialis UpdReq FA>We can control our universe as soon as >we realise that it is merely perception..... There are no >demons in hell and no angels in heaven... There are merely >psychological forces which reflect nature.... Eventually, >if we altar psych, nature must altar itself to our >perception making what we percieve "law." Pax. 93 Heh heh. Good luck! If nothing else, you've got the mental inertia of five billion other people working against you! * SLMR 2.1a * Does Atlantis have the Buddha-nature? Mu! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 20 Aug 92 22:13:06 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq MC>Just a new way of looking at an old devil..(to plagerize a book title..) I think I read that one. It was about Saturn, wasn't it? * SLMR 2.1a * Does Atlantis have the Buddha-nature? Mu! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Brynioch Area: Night Side To: Shekhinah 18 Aug 92 13:28:00 Subject: Re: Finding a system. UpdReq In a message dated 14 Aug 92 16:45:03, Shekhinah wrote: S> I would suggest you look at anything by Dolores S> Ashcroft-Norwicki. She's the Director of Studies for the S> SOL, a prolific author, an eclectic magician and her style S> is accessible without being "light-weight". If you are not S> currently connected with any group/ temple/ coven, may I S> recommend her book "The Ritual Magic Workbook" as a great S> starting place. Most of the work in it suits your stated S> direction perfectly, and her suggested reading lists and S> practical exercises and rituals give you more to go on with. S> Hope it helps, it's somewhere to start anyway. S> Love, light and peace, S. Thanks for the recommendation, i'll have to put it down on my ever growing 'Xmas Wish List' (grin). What specifically does SOL mean? I've never heard of this author before, so I am unfamiliar with her group. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Brynioch Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 18 Aug 92 15:45:00 Subject: Re: Chaos and learning magick UpdReq In a message dated 16 Aug 92 04:04:26, Jonathan Corwin wrote: JC> Part of my conclusion -- I hope this helps you -- is that meditations JC> offer a way to engage in internal dialogue on a more intimate level JC> than JC> inner voices do (which, in fact, can distract from this other form of JC> dialogue). Engaging in this kind of dialogue allows, I think, the JC> refinement JC> of what I call the "internal mirror". Everybody has one, but some JC> are scratched, warped and dusty. BTW, its psychologist, not JC> psychiatrist (unless JC> you get into the physical manipulations -- yoga and higher-level JC> meditations JC> which require a certain degree of biofeedback control that can cause JC> physiological changes in the body that then affect the mind). What specifically are these inner voices? Some sort of inner wisdom that mundane people have no knowledge or contact with on a conscious level? Thank you for the lengthy reply, it gives one quite a bit to think about. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718