From: Frater Almost Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 16 Aug 92 17:09:48 Subject: Drifting Ages UpdReq More like about six to seven years ago......... Why... when was it for you? A quarter, half, or three-quarters of a century? ;) *snicker & milky-way* :) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Shekhinah 17 Aug 92 02:35:42 Subject: Re: A question for discussio Sent UpdReq JC> camouflaged in Christ speak. I haven't yet decided whether this is JC> just an observed code or if the magickians are serious in aspiring to JC> xtian-centered divine will by magickal means (in alchemy, eg). S> point. These older grimoires you've mentioned were often S> deliberately couched in xtian terminology for the purpose S> of camouflage. Remember that the crime of heresy usually S> attracted the death penalty. In the same way, many "observed code" = deliberate camouflage(sp?) S> alchemical formulae were deliberately obscured in the S> grimoires to make them seem impossible to perform. This S> served two purposes; one to discourage the "profane" from S> experimenting, and two so they could claim work of fiction S> if discovered. Somehow, I doubt the latter. Your reference? As to the first, as I have mentioned elsewhere, alchemical code served to disguise actual operations ("blood of the red lion" = menstrual fluids) and, I suspect, as a series of symbolic meditations, the Western equivalent of Eastern yantras and mantras. Cabalistic "pathworking" rites point in this direction, since the two (Qabala and alchemy) were closely related. There is another point, however, you may have overlooked. Literacy was to an extent a test of education. Yet even among the educated, the sciences of mathematics, physics, etc. were closely and jealously guarded; hence the Greek code that modern science is written in. I'm certain the two are related, just how, tho', I'm not sure of. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Frc 17 Aug 92 02:48:48 Subject: Re: Nox Theoria, In Defense of the Black ArtsSent UpdReq Thank you for the compliment, I think my ego just burst I just posted another section and I'll be posting another one (2 essays this time) soon. Then I'll be asking for feedback, or distortion, your choice (love that Hendrix fuzzface :) !) Depending on the development of other segments I have in the works (Nox Practica, The Mysteries, Experientia), illustrations, etc., I'm planning on releasing this either through a publishing house or self-published. Leave me an address if you want a copy, and I'll keep it in mind when it gets done. BTW, I recently got interested in botanics and am trying to develop a seedbank. Would you have any stock you can spare? If so, leave me a message in mag_plants. Like Ice, these tears of my death... -- The Book of Eu4euh 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 15 Aug 92 11:00:02 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq AL>I'm gonna have to do some re-reading of her stuff...I did >not read the feminism into her work..seems more like a re- >hash in different terms to me...but I might be a bit >biased...:-) Lil Well, I don't think it was really feminist, at least as I use the term. But I recall that most of her gods for the Sephiroth were female. * SLMR 2.1a * Kirk, Spock, & McCoy are a cardinal t-square. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 15 Aug 92 23:46:06 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq MC>Who claimed there was anything new? Practically everybody I've read who claims to be a "chaos" magician -- Discordians excluded -- also explicitly or implicitly states that it is in some way "different" from all other forms of magick. Which in my mind also implies that it is offering something new. MC>The whole idea is to >strip away all the various bullshgit of `new' systems and >recognize the way magic works in and of itself. >.... MC>Yep, Crowley was acquainted with Spare and each of them >figured out some very important stuff. Modern Chaos gets a MC>. . . . MC>Ok, maybe there are some limitations to magical possibility somewhere along >the line. But as long as I don't limit myself with self >imposed or taught limitations, I can "be all I can be" >magically. many magical `systems' are limiting through old >religious hangover influences, through ethical teachings, >or whatever. Why limit ourselves? I guess I'm dense or something, as I still don't see what distinguishes "chaos" magick from plain old generic magick. All that you've said here is what I've always thought was the way you were supposed to do magick, and the way lots of magicians I know (few of whom call themselves chaoticists) practice it. Explore what's available, grab what resonates, and fill in the blanks by experiment, never saying "I can't" without actually trying. Any genuine limitations will become clear as you progress. It seems to me that a refusal to be limited is fine for the earlier stages of the path, prior to the acquisition of solar consciousness, when one is primarily concerned with removing external conditioning from oneself. But in later stages, circumstances would act to make freedom from limitation irrelevant as a primary goal of one's magickal work. Let's try a couple of hypothetical cases: 1) Let's suppose that someone has been working at magick for many years, and has come to a point where they have eliminated most false limitations from their mind, and have come to a reasonably good comprehension of their own innate nature. The person has also explored the various systems and traditions available. He sees that certain practices and symbol-systems are particularly suited to his individual nature, and decides to devote a decade or so to work with those specific systems, with the expectation that doing so will be more productive than continuing to work with a wider variety of systems. Would this person have violated "chaos magick" principles by this course of action? 2) Let's further suppose that through his work, this person discovers his "true will", and that will involves the creation and/or advocacy of a particular system of magick. What do "chaos" principles say about this situation? * SLMR 2.1a * Five tons of flax! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 16 Aug 92 14:28:16 Subject: Dark, dark and dusty.... UpdReq Oh! That GOD....I was speaking in rhetorical terms.... God is alive and Magick is afoot...God is afoot and Magick is alive... Etc. Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 16 Aug 92 14:30:10 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq Well, female names or not, I think she is still a bit off...For a new age a new system...The synergy of what came before...like making the whole more than just the sum of the parts. Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 15 Aug 92 08:15:02 Subject: Re: Book Recommendations UpdReq -=> The Moonshadow sent a message to Vitriol on 08-13-92 08:13 <=- -=> Book Recommendationso <=- TM> oh really? how about dan quayle? for every rule, there's an exception. Anyway, I was excluding the braindead. BTW, I'm not ignoring you in Tarot -- just didn't want to get further offtopic. ;-) Kind of like juggling in your mind... Oops! * BWave/QWK v0.96 * Illuminati Non Carborundum! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 16 Aug 92 22:27:32 Subject: Moderator UpdReq Last I heard, Nachash decided to leave it moderatorless but Nick and Almost (who have both filled the post) and all us old-timers keep the three rules in line...especially the one about no preaching. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Shadowcloud 16 Aug 92 22:31:22 Subject: Old Buddies UpdReq I think I just remembered who you are, didn't I meet you at a handfasting somewhere in the mid-west? Could be thinking about someone else... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 16 Aug 92 22:34:36 Subject: Let's hear more from the U.K.! UpdReq CN> in the U.K. Some Nightside users I know know would CN> even classify themselves as Anglophiles. (Are you CN> reading this, Markie?) I have never called myself an Anglophile! I picture them as living vicariously through reading... I'm just obsessed with anything English! Especially the people and the music...and of course the accents. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Black Dog 16 Aug 92 22:37:26 Subject: Drugs and magic UpdReq >Ecstasy provides secret knowledge BD> umm, first reaction is "Bollocks!" BD> What do you think ?? BD> Chat in mag_plants if not topical here ?? Anything having to do with magic, especially experimental approaches, is topical here! I agree with you though. I hardly get into drugs at all anymore, and if I do it is recreational. I prefer a better view of reality during magic so I don't have to wonder if it's only the drug. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Chen Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 17 Aug 92 00:39:38 Subject: Feeding Loas Rec'd UpdReq Yo! Feed... like, " Eat, You should eat". (Maybe Voodoo had some Jewish roots...) . I don't know how much the Loa have to do with Chia pets, but they Do like attention. They also like certain foods, drinks, acts of service. They get a tad PEVISH when forgotten or neglected, and they tend to respond bounteously to just a tad of attention. There are archetypal Loa and there are family Loa. Voodoo is a religion of ancestor worship. The dead still influence and interact with our lives. We feed the generations that are yet to come. In some ways, our lives and our works feed the Loa. In more literal terms, give to the Loa their signature foods, drinks, flowers, colognes, etc. For instance, My family Loa really like green grapes and Glenlevit scotch! It lets them know you remember, and helps them to make substantive passage from the inner, watery realms, to the material oputer realms. And they tend to be in a more congenial mood when they get here... Regular acts of offering helps to dissolve the boundaries between ourselves, those who came before, and those yet to come. But this should probably move over to the Voodoo echo... Hope you like the deck. Don't forget: The Voodoo Tarot show opens here in NOLA on Sept. 5th. LOVE/WILL CHEN 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Night Side To: Chen 17 Aug 92 01:25:58 Subject: Feeding Loas UpdReq Aha! If my ancestory has anything to do with it then they must like molases, hog-jowls, and corn bread! Sheesh! I can hear me now (Iconoclastic as I am) "Hey...... Come and git it and then, after yer done, I've got a tin of Copenhagen waiting for you on the porch next to a fifth of Jack Daniels! Yeee-Haaaa!" ;) Jewish roots to Voodoo? I can hear it now, "Why don't we ever have any Zombies from you? Are you going to get married? What about that Mambo? Is she a specialist? Lady doctor... go figure. Why no girl-friends? Why no Zombies? What are you, GAY?!" Yeah.... I can hear it now, Chen. ;) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Shadowcloud Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 17 Aug 92 13:29:02 Subject: Neuro Nauts UpdReq -=> In a magickal message to Shadowcloud, The Moonshadow said <=- TM> good luck. just about every echo i've ever been on has had some kinda TM> "tony lane" incident. TM> btw, hi glenn! this is paul in b'ville. nice handle. Heh.. Hey there Paul... I've had the handle for years, actually... Mostly used on the local boards, but apparantly, since I'm now posting with the BlueWave reader, it automatically inserts my handle on certain bases.. not that I mind, really... (Sigh-- off to see if there's anything in the Cyber_Mage echo other than another ad for that damned gathering up in NYS again.. sigh...) B*B Glenn ... Fundamentalism: Fund=give cash; amentalism=without brains 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Shadowcloud Area: Night Side To: Tony Iannotti 17 Aug 92 13:30:02 Subject: Book Recommendationso UpdReq -=> In a magickal message to The Moonshadow, Tony Iannotti said <=- TM> oh really? how about dan quayle? TI> TI> Apart from not noticing how magick is speklled with a k, he'd prolly TI> do fine. Nah.. he'd spell it: Magicke. :} B*B Glenn ... Now I'm a God! (thunk) Now, you're a coat rack! --Pike 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Night Side To: Miaren Avianna 16 Aug 92 08:16:18 Subject: Necronomicon UpdReq quoting MIAREN AVIANNA To: MARKIE CHAO ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ MA}>"comnicon." Unless you are misspelling it{ on purpose to MA}>avoid invoking something, please treat the titles of other MA}>people's grimoires with respect. since you obliquely refer to Simon's version that version was written & published as a lark -- a very bad joke. & lets not forget the necrocomicon, whilst you are correcting our spelling * SLMR 2.1a * Coming soon to an echo near you: The Turtle Shell 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 15 Aug 92 08:15:52 Subject: Necrocomnicon? UpdReq quoting NEURO SONIC To: MIAREN AVIANNA ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ NS}>Please tell me as I have asked elsewhere whether people NS}>have considered making comic book pantheons? were you the one who started that thread on the X-MEN as gods/archetypes for today? 93 jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * Circular Defination: See "circular defination" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: Night Side To: Tony Iannotti 17 Aug 92 17:37:40 Subject: Re: book help UpdReq In a message dated 16 Aug 92 13:56:07, Tony Iannotti wrote: (regarding book help) TI> I have an extra copy of the set of AC's Collected Works, but they are TI> still in print, and can be had from Weiser's or the Magickal Childe via TI> mail. (Magickal Childe just issued it's own facsimile of the Goetia, TI> based on the Page facsimile, but with ugly ads in the back.) I can live with the ugly ads, so long as the content is kosher. :) TI> Weiser's also has all of the other books you list, though they don't TI> always keep Vivekananda in stock. That can be had from East/West books TI> here in NYC, address not with me at the moment, or all the list could be TI> had in San Fransisco between Fields in SF and Shambalah in Berkeley. Hey Tony, I owe ya one. I had no idea these things were still up for grabs. You wanna sell your copy of Collected Works? I'd much rather give the money to some one who needed it. Lemme know :) Love is the Law. Gerald Sheeesh dude. You ought to be a Grand Lodge candidate ;) ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718