From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Nachash 22 Jul 92 17:01:48 Subject: Assistance Required UpdReq Hi Nachash, > * Origin: Mumbo Jumbo Kathedral =+= (504) 891-0693 (666:93/93) could you include ChaosBox into that net and send the "nodelist" to me ? With the echoes we handle like in the past, OK ? With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Nachash 22 Jul 92 17:05:16 Subject: Kali Mambo Electronic Archives UpdReq Hi Nachash, > Sure thing. How about disks instead of modem transfers? FINE ! You still have my sysop's address ? Hendrik Bohm, Stettbacher Tal 43, 6104 Seeheim 2, Germany > Thanks for the call. It was great talking to you again! ;) Just tried to have a look into your kathedral.. busy.. I'll try again.. With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 22 Jul 92 17:11:08 Subject: Chaos and Thelema UpdReq Hi Neuro, > I've been trying to contact someone on the East Coast if you > Guys have any suggestions. I'm here in Germany ... > Good to see you posting again, I've sen some of you're posts on > Magic Plants up at BaphoNet, and would be most interested in > corresponding with you! Do you read the MAG_PLANTS-echo ? I tried to look into BaphoNet, but 2400 is too slow to call from LD. With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 22 Jul 92 17:15:14 Subject: E.O.D. UpdReq Hi Neuro, > I.O.T. (according to a local T.O.P.Y. representative had some > Camps up in the mountains in the U.S. where they worked in > commune like environments honing their Magickal Skills in the > Sparetime, devoid of everyday hassles. Kind of like Appalacian > Monasteries. I think that is 3rd hand information. In Europe IOT-members gather once a year to share ideas and practise in an old castle for a week or so ... With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 22 Jul 92 17:21:28 Subject: Sound-Off! UpdReq Hi Frater, > Great to see you here, germany! Es geht mir gut! ;) Pax. 93 do you speak German ? I'm looking for someone who can translate German Texts into english ! With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: All 21 Jul 92 21:18:00 Subject: Let's hear more from the U.K.! UpdReq I just called this fine BBS to see what's happening! Very nice setup and easy to use. My normal access points are in the U.S.A., and I guarantee we'd love to hear about LHP developments in the U.K. Some Nightside users I know know would even classify themselves as Anglophiles. (Are you reading this, Markie?) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Black Dog Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 1 Aug 92 01:14:00 Subject: IOT MOUNTAIN TRIBES UpdReq Hi Neuro! In a msg of <12 Jul 92> to Nick Frost, you expounded: >Ecstasy provides secret knowledge umm, first reaction is "Bollocks!" In this country people take ecstasy for escapist purposes, though there are _some_ doing work with it in the collective, they are in the minority. Most use it for one night of hedonism, and then go back to their jobs on monday morning. (much the same as Mods and pills in the sixties). it`s my (considered) opinion that the drug has no such knowledge to offer. if you get something out of your "trip", it was there in the first place, and the drug just helped to stimulate it into conscious thought. (this isn`t a fixed mindset, just an opinion) :-) i`m no chemist, just something as contrived as this drug is, sure feels different from naturally occuring hallucinogens, which do have something to offer. :-) What do you think ?? Chat in mag_plants if not topical here ?? Cheers, Black Dog 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Guus Goos Area: Night Side To: Frater Q.A.A. 3 Aug 92 22:00:06 Subject: Wiccans. UpdReq FQ > Most wiccans don't know exactly what they're doing. A heavy statement. Ofcourse you'd based it on a large investigation? Can I have your source? Blessed Be, Guus. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 4 Aug 92 22:10:36 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq Hi Markie, > Any chance of translations coming out somewhere? I'd be > interested in reading stuff you write. :) sorry, there is _no_ time to do that task ! (It was hard enough to write those texts) But I think of sending those texts to a _FEW_ BBS's in US, might be somebody else does have the skills and time to translate them... With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 4 Aug 92 22:19:04 Subject: your letter UpdReq Hi Markie, > FA> Comming back I was glad to receive your letter ! > See what happens when you `expect' things? ;) you (better I) get another one ! Received your letter today... It's all clear with it. The only thing is Fra.: V.D. ... He said to me: it's OK... So just write what you wanted to, the only thing is to send 2 copies of it to me, so that I can forward one of them to Fra.: U.D. ... All clear ? > Did you see the lead-in to the IOT section with his real name? > I'm not finished with that yet, still have to read > Thundersqueak. Oh, in my opinion it is one of the best workings from Lionell ! Wish you all the BEST and THANKS for your Trust !!! With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 4 Aug 92 22:25:04 Subject: your letter UpdReq Hi Markie, > Didn't I send you some of my articles? not yet read, but we'll talk about the distinction between "animals" and "CLAN-animals" soon... Can you get the books of Dr. Johanna Wagner in english ??? She opened a tradition from Africa to Europe ... Read it, then we talk about it. I do have that experience; it's different to "animals" ! (I'll do NOT answer questions about this topic to other readers of this echo !) With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 4 Aug 92 22:26:56 Subject: Kenneth Grant UpdReq Hi Markie, > I thought that was a secret...;) tss, and you know about it ? :-) As AC said: a secret should always be revealed ... :-))) With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 4 Aug 92 22:31:42 Subject: Unicorn UpdReq Hi Neuro, > Is there any possibility of having a few of you generous > europeans translating and posting articles from the "Unicorn"? in German ? Sorry, there is no time to translate... > It would be most appreciated, I'm sure. I know :-))) > If Individuals were to visit Europe, > would it be possible for them to visit the Pact representatives > without American involvement? Which individuals ? If you come over, you'll surely be invited to visit our temple as a guest. And we'll have a pleasurable weekend with a lot of discussion, practice and other things... With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 4 Aug 92 22:35:00 Subject: Letter UpdReq Hi Josh, right now received your disk (not yet looked into it). Many thanks !!!!!!!!! With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fra.: Apfelmann Area: Night Side To: Nick Frost 5 Aug 92 21:05:22 Subject: MODERATORSHIP UpdReq Hi Nick, > I hear tell Frater Almost tossed the moderatorship back though. > How would you like to try it a while? Old Nick is busy wading > through the puddles in his living room to get to the computer. I wouldn't moderate privately... There would be 2 rules: 1. Chit-chat belongs to netmail. 2. One who does not respect the belief-system of Others can be removed from participation of this area. With fractalic greetings and laughter * Fra.: Apfelmann * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Shadow Mage 2 Aug 92 22:51:48 Subject: Test UpdReq You're here. We're there. };-) Welcome!!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Frater Q.A.A. 2 Aug 92 23:00:48 Subject: Associations... UpdReq I have no direct affiliations with either the CoS or the ToS. Sorry, but you may have confused me with someone having a similar name.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 29 Jul 92 15:24:50 Subject: One Liners UpdReq Is there a reason you always quote paragraphs (or more) in the various echoes from people and then add a one liner of your own at the end. I just notice that you'll reply to 20 or more messages but all of your replies are like this. -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Turbator Area: Night Side To: Tony Iannotti 31 Jul 92 17:39:50 Subject: Re: Black Moon Pro UpdReq Actually, it was after my reply to you was entered, that I found out who was involved. The description was merely an amalgamation of all of the dim, brutal bullies I have encountered in my life. I have never met Achad Oscher (sp?) but have heard many entertaining tales. Perhaps one day our respective journeys will bring us to the same crossroads. WILL LOVE 93 Turbator 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 31 Jul 92 20:08:52 Subject: Re: Geezer City, USA UpdReq 93, Markie! A> Yo, Fogie Dude! MC> That's Dudette! Uhm, yeah....I knew that.....};-] A> Nyah! Nyah! I'll be 37 that same October.... Pfffffffssssst! MC> What day? We can have a double party... 10.18.55 (13:31 EST, 38.21 N x 81.38 W....) with Venus, Saturn & Moon in Scorpio - Mercury, Mars & Neptune in Libra - Jupiter, Uranus & Pluto in Leo, Capricorn rising.... (Mercury was, of course, in retrograde!) Party on, dudette! 93 93/93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 31 Jul 92 20:18:52 Subject: Re: Hitchcock UpdReq 93, Charles! CN> Have you ever dealt with J.D. Holmes, Bookseller? He advertises CN> regularly in "Gnosis" and is a very reliable supplier of arcana CN> relating to Hermetics, Alchemy or whatever other obscure category, CN> subcategory or reclassification you might select.... Never dealt with them directly, though I've been getting one of their chapbook catalogs for several years. For some reason, it never ocurred to me to try there....probably means they've got one! CN> Ditto for Tood Pratum Books, also an advertiser in "Gnosis". That's a new one on me; thanks! CN> BTW, I'm partway through the first of four novellas comprising T.E.D. CN> Klein's "Dark Gods". Nice so far! Hehe. I'm just finishing up a pair by Katherine Kurtz & Deborah Harris, _The_Adept_. Excellent occult fiction, in the Dion Fortune, SOL vein, if you're into that sort of thing (still harping on the Dark/Light Good/Evil dichotomies, though: the NightSiders are the bad guys....weird.) 93 93/93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 1 Aug 92 10:28:54 Subject: Fear UpdReq CN> In short, things we're "not completely sure of" CN> are viewed as "darker" --- whether they be CN> "majicks" or mundanities! AL> Teee Hee! Well, the game goes on, and the fox AL> has been sighted....I revel in the "un-known", AL> and delve into chaos as often as I can! Sanity is AL> relative....;-) Lil Well said! Sanity indeed is relative. And the most insane I've ever seen have been fundamentalists who take the bible mandate to subdue the Earth to an extreme by paving and polluting everything they can. They just don't seem to believe that soiling your own "nest" (the Earth) is counterproductive in the long run. An elite few will always manage to live in relative comfort, but the great majority are going to end up exactly like the starving hordes in Somalia that are now seen in the daily CNN news videos. If that's not now the majority of us, then it most certainly will be our children or grandchildren. Vultures always find a comfortable spot to roost. Darksiders know that far better than the "white light & rainbows" crowd and are far more respectful of ultimate possibilities even while reveling in the "unknown" and delving into chaos.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 1 Aug 92 10:36:54 Subject: Fear UpdReq CN>Fear is truly addictive, as so >many ropeless climbers, race car drivers and others know in >the mundane sides of life. JN> Not to mention residents of Manhattan. JN> -- An ex-resident of Manhattan Yeah, I always groove on the raw violent energy, especially in upper and lower Manhattan.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Frater Q.A.A. 1 Aug 92 11:31:56 Subject: Spare UpdReq FQ> P.S. just got a hold of some of Spare's material FQ> for first hand study and I love it. Damn Cynic's FQ> are great. Yeah. ;) So what did you read? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Barak 1 Aug 92 11:33:56 Subject: Mezlim UpdReq B> It looks good. There's something on aroma therapy B> (off allthings) by Pete Carroll, some Terrence Not so surprising, he has an oils shop near where he lives. Ray has one too. Seems to be a popular business with some of that crowd. I haven't come across any of Pete's oils but Ray's are great. B> issue, I think they did a great job. And I'm sure I'll have to get a copy before it's too late! I liked those people a lot, Karl even played with Wendy who was otherwise bored by the whole thing. ;) B> I would like his address. I can send him a comp B> copy and a request for submissions if nothing else. I'll take care of it. He might be interested in submitting something on aromatherapy, he's written on it before. Books even. Would you be interested? B> Looking forward to seeing what you've got for next issue. So am I. ;) Actually, I do have something 3/4 done, guess I better make some time to wrap it up. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 1 Aug 92 11:40:58 Subject: Political Bullshit UpdReq AL> There has been so much bullshit in the news about AL> the election, it is enough to make an anarchist AL> take up sides! Lil YES! Topple the dictatorship, at any cost! And watch the repubs sleight of hand when they count the votes to make sure... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Barak 1 Aug 92 11:42:58 Subject: Wiccans. UpdReq Hee hee, actually there are a couple of standard answers that come up, "Healing" and "We raise a cone of power and send it out to heal". Then when asked who they are healing "The Earth!" Yeah. Can't wait to see the power kick in. meanwhile, I'll put my faith in environmental action, which we have to credit a large percentage of Wiccans for involving themselves with. Some talk, some do, but all in all they are quite harmless. Just watch out for the ones who `teach'. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Azoth 1 Aug 92 11:50:00 Subject: Re: Geezer City, USA UpdReq Close enough, I'm on the Scorpio side of the border line but we can party through October and just absord Oktoberfest into it for good measure! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 1 Aug 92 17:02:02 Subject: AZO UpdReq 'Course there's those who've got feet in both camps (glowing wink >;> ) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Waddy Area: Night Side To: Shadow Mage 3 Aug 92 02:18:22 Subject: Test UpdReq SM> If someone will please point in my SM> direction and confirm that i'm not just a paranoid SM> apparition of myself in this area by messaging at SM> me breifly, it would be apprectiated.. You exist! Surprize! :-[ <==== a vampire face But are you actually posting messages, or are you mearly "real" in someone else's reality. Inquiring minds may want to know.... ciao, Waddy 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Frater Q.A.A. 30 Jul 92 22:36:40 Subject: Theatre Of Magick UpdReq > I just finished reading the article. It's 2:30 am and I followed the > instructions. I really did enjoy it's simplicity. Is this the sort of > info. the american I.O.T. is offering? I've written the Pact in Ca. > from an address at Temple Oblivion, given in the Psychonimican inserts, > but I've yet to procure a response. (it's been several weeks.) Where is this article that you read from? -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Shadowcloud 30 Jul 92 22:38:40 Subject: Neuro Nauts UpdReq > And, I know.. I'm a *baad* moderator... But I *can* get it from D.S., so > I *can* try to revive it again.... Why bother? I remember you as moderator if you are the same person who was running it before it was shut down. You were/are a complete ass. I will pick up a Neuronaut orientated echo for my BBS but not if you are moderator. -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Azoth 30 Jul 92 22:41:42 Subject: A Real Programmer... UpdReq > What, you don't think GS has done more than any other single entity > to encourage the spread of Enochian magic? };-] In his image maybe... -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 30 Jul 92 22:47:42 Subject: Sound-off! UpdReq > Do you feel that the music of such groups (Nirvana, Temple of the Dog = > Soundgarden + Pearl Jam) is inspired by the Aeon of Horus? Possibly, in my opinion (you sent this to Josh but I live in Seattle too). By the way, Temple of the Dog is more than just Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Astral Invader Area: Night Side To: Josh 27 Jul 92 13:25:44 Subject: Re: Necronomicon UpdReq Jo> I picked up a copy when I was around 13, 14 years old because on the Jo> back it said that I was holding in my hand something potentially the Jo> most dangerous book known to the Western World!!! (Or something to Jo> that affect.) I snatched it right up. =) '....the most famous, the most potent, and potentially, the most dangerous Black Book known to the Western World....' Now what library is complete without that?...}:) /Astral/ 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beernut Area: Night Side To: All 28 Jul 92 15:49:44 Subject: Blacks vs. the Cult UpdReq If my Grandpa was alive today he would say(and I quote),"Ain't no Diffrence between the Cult and the Klan." I understand why my Grandpa would say this. First of all they both hide in shadows,Burn things, and are too scared of the Black Man to show there trashy,Ugly,Yellow belly, Head. Not to mention I've never seen a Cultist win a Boxing Championship. The First time the Klan/Cult came to burn a Cross in my grandpa's yard he beat the Shit out of everyone of them with The Holy Bible. I plan to follow in my Grandfather's Foot Steps and Clense the world. So Come Forth Sinners and Face me. For I have Rodney and Jesse in my Corner as well as the Lord. Beernut Black and Proud. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phule Area: Night Side To: Beernut 29 Jul 92 07:33:46 Subject: Re: Blacks vs. the Cult UpdReq Be> Diffrence between the Cult and the Klan." I understand why my Grandpa Exactly which Cult are you talking about? You must be specific or we won't know which group you're denouncing. Be> would say this. First of all they both hide in shadows,Burn things, Be> and are too scared of the Black Man to show there trashy,Ugly,Yellow Be> belly, Head. Not to mention I've never seen a Cultist win a Boxing Be> Championship. The First time the Klan/Cult came to burn a Cross in Be> my grandpa's yard he beat the Shit out of everyone of them with The Be> Holy Bible. I plan to follow in my Grandfather's Foot Steps and Be> Clense the world. So Come Forth Sinners and Face me. For I have Be> Rodney and Jesse in my Corner as well as the Lord. OK. Who says we burn crosses? I mean that get's old after awhile. DefiKH2fMK>yrsion of Christianity do you subscribe? FZK@=b* Do you feel that the music of such groups (Nirvana, Temple of FA> the Dog = Soundgarden + Pearl Jam) is inspired by the Aeon of FA> Horus? The apathetic yet often-times unignorant tendencies of FA> America's young do seem to ring true of Liber AL. I read once Could be, could be... FA> that, by the year 2000, every three years there will be a gap FA> as large as an entire generation between our young. (i.e. 18 FA> year olds will be gaping in horror at the actions of 15 year FA> olds who will be doing likewise at 12 year olds and so on.) FA> Prettty bleak. Pax. 93 I can see this. Yes. It is already true in a kind of different way. For instance, this years 11-12 year olds are younger looking, maturing slower, and staying out of alot of thr trouble my generations age went through. Strange. Seems at local schools, kids are getting smaller. The freshmen coming into the highschool seem younger every year. Wierd. Josh 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 1 Aug 92 21:00:48 Subject: Neuro Nauts UpdReq > Well there is not a person around my area with that echo... so I'd much > rather keep to Altered States if possible. Do you get that echo? Yeah, I get it. -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark Krubsack Area: Night Side To: Arthur Rosene 2 Aug 92 05:00:48 Subject: Typhonian Teratomas UpdReq 93 Arthur, On 30 Jul 92, Arthur Rosene writes to All: AR> Was wondering if anyone out there has read Typhonian_Teratomas. I've seen AR> an advertisment for it in Mezlim. Says its a gathering of night side AR> rituals to call those who wait in the Qliphoth. I suppose the workings AR> should be done in a rather controlled environment. Anyone suggest some Got an address for it? 93. 93/93. Mark 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: All 2 Aug 92 21:55:50 Subject: Lovecraft knew... UpdReq "Missionaries are infernal nuisances who ought to be kept at home." Lovecraft, 9/12/25 quoted in T.E.D. Klein's "Dark Gods" ...and dealt with the old-fashioned way so that they do not terrorize helpless animals, small children and old women!" Nemo, 8/2/92 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Nick Frost 3 Aug 92 18:18:52 Subject: Work UpdReq NF> going to get that book done if you are sitting NF> around watching video tapes over and over Markie? NF> Get to work girl! Yassar! Soon as I get done wasting my creative talents on letters to lawyers. (sigh!) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 3 Aug 92 18:20:52 Subject: Spreading negativity UpdReq TM> hah! let me guess! your ex? No, my current. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 18:22:54 Subject: Women in restrooms UpdReq JN> show, "V". So you're really lizard-people from Orion under the makeup? Except for those of us who don't wear make-up, we're shape changers. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 18:25:54 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq JN> I've never met the lady myself, though friends who have are about JN> equally divided between thinking she's a divinely-inspired artist, and JN> thinking she's a total Space Cadet. Aren't the two synonymous? ;) Well, I only have a first impression to go on but I'm also a very sensitive empath. My `take' is that she has some real depth that not all will see, because she has a friendly and light-hearted spirit despite the area of magic she is known for delving into. This is just an opinion based on a brief meeting in a party... JN> Ok, then. Let me ask you what YOU mean by "creative JN> energy" and "primal JN> chaos", and (if it is different) what the generally JN> accepted definition JN> of those terms is among "chaos" magicians. Generally accepted get's tricky already... JN> And also, do you distinguish between "the energy JN> out of which a creation JN> is formed", "the energy used in a creative act" and "the ability to JN> create"? (Watch out, I'm setting you up. ) You know what? These questions are so good that I'm going to give them some serious thought before I answer, like tomorrow. This is the kind of stuff I get into in part of my book that isn't written yet and I'd hate to just ramble something of the top of my head. To be continued... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 18:32:56 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq > JN> prolonged exposure to qliphotic and > JN> "darkside" entities produce an > JN> increase in anger and paranoid thoughts in the magician? JN> OK, but does your cohabitant show any such signs? He was negative and malignant long before getting into magic. He got into magic to find ways of doing harm, and was disappointed that it wasn't what the xtians said. ;) JN> Which brings up another question: If a "chaos" JN> approach involves freeing JN> oneself from "false" ethics, does it involve the development of JN> any *>positive<* ethical principles of its own? JN> Does chaos magick define JN> a "true" ethic? No. Ethics are up to each individual magician. Where did you think the bad rep came from? ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Vitriol 3 Aug 92 18:36:56 Subject: Re: Women in restrooms UpdReq V> Whew! And I though "They Live" was wacky! Hee hee...it was better the first time I told it on another Net. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Turbator 3 Aug 92 18:38:58 Subject: Politics and society UpdReq The sleeping sheep just need some stimulation. ;) Gotta start somewhere. I just saw on CNN a while ago a story about discrimination against the Voodoo religion because of a book being banned in the school library somewhere in Louisiana, Voodoo and Hoodoo. What an opportunity... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Shadow Mage 3 Aug 92 18:43:58 Subject: Test UpdReq SM> If someone will please point in my SM> direction and confirm that i'm not just a paranoid SM> apparition of myself in this area by messaging at SM> me breifly, it would be apprectiated.. It is now confirmed that you are indeed a paranoid apparition of yourself, imagined only in your fictional mind. Now back to our programme... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 3 Aug 92 18:48:00 Subject: Personal Pronouns UpdReq |NF> Beast in me | TM> uncle al lives in you? awesome!! Didn't you know? Nick is THE Beast! Al was only a minor Beastie... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 18:52:00 Subject: Coffin cars UpdReq JN> to write anything in JN> a Ford Pinto? Given the coffin-sized driver's JN> space, there's hardly room JN> for someone my size to move, let alone write. Trade it in for a GEO Metro. I'm 5' 10 1/2" and all legs, but have plenty of room inside, while the outside is a very small car. Traded a Cadillac in on it. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Beernut 3 Aug 92 18:59:02 Subject: Blacks vs. the Cult UpdReq What cult are you talking about? I've got no problem with black, but spout the fundie crap somewhere else. You have no audience here. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Beernut 3 Aug 92 21:05:02 Subject: Blacks vs. the Cult UpdReq B> If my Grandpa was alive today he would say(and I quote),"Ain't no B> Diffrence between the Cult and the Klan." I B> understand why my Grandpa would say this. First B> of all they both hide in shadows,Burn things, and B> are too scared of the Black Man to show there B> trashy,Ugly,Yellow belly, Head. Not to mention B> I've never seen a Cultist win a Boxing B> Championship. The First time the Klan/Cult came B> to burn a Cross in my grandpa's yard he beat the B> Shit out of everyone of them with The Holy Bible. B> I plan to follow in my Grandfather's Foot Steps B> and Clense the world. So Come Forth Sinners and B> Face me. For I have Rodney and Jesse in my B> Corner as well as the Lord. B> Beernut Black and Proud. I quoted your message in full because I just couldn't believe the full flowering of your stupidity the first time I read it. I don't think I have EVER seen any racial epithets on this echo, so your analogy to the Klan is totally wrong. And with a name like "Beernut" I suspect you are more likely a refugee from FLAME who couldn't cut it there and decided to come here for a breather. Get ready for a surprise.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Turbator Area: Night Side To: Shadow Mage 3 Aug 92 08:44:04 Subject: Test UpdReq Yes, yes, we are receiving you; but, will we be able to relate with you? WILL LOVE 93 Turbator 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Turbator Area: Night Side To: Beernut 3 Aug 92 16:58:04 Subject: Blacks vs. the Cult UpdReq Beergut, B> If my Grandpa was alive today he would say(and I quote),"Ain't no B> Diffrence between the Cult and the Klan." What did your g'pa have against "The Cult"? I know that they've gone 'mersh,but that's no reason to associate them with the kkk. After all, it,s only rock & roll. B> First of all they both B> hide in shadows,Burn things, and are too scared of the B> Black Man to show there trashy,Ugly,Yellow belly, Head. B> Not to mention I've never seen a Cultist win a Boxing B> Championship. I have seen psalm singers (xtian fundies) burn books, music, O.B.-Gyn. clinics, and homes. YOU reveal the extent of your intellect by being so impressed by a boxing championship. I pray that the Loa will help you pull your head out of your preachers ass. Remember Jimmy Swaggart, Jim & Tammy, Jim Jones, and all those child molesting bible thumpers we hear about on the news. Talk about UGLY, They don't exactly fuck kids out in the daylight. Before you judge the beliefs of others, try turning your eyes inward. A BILLION Hindus can't be totally wrong. Now, since none of this will register on your dim dry-cleaned brain, take your ashamed-to-be-white-because-my-whole-families'-in-the-klan ass out of here, and take your "lord" and your bible with you. P.S. Jesus was well hung. B> in my Grandfather's Foot Steps and Clense the world. Cle_A_nse! Turbator 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nachash Area: Night Side To: Beernut 3 Aug 92 15:36:06 Subject: Blacks vs. the Cult UpdReq Beerfart, 93. B> Not to mention I've never seen a Cultist win a Boxing B> Championship. Maybe not a Boxing Championship, but I'm wiling to wager that Papa Shango is the next WWF world champ. B> The First time the Klan/Cult came to burn B> a Cross in my grandpa's yard he beat the Shit out of B> everyone of them with The Holy Bible. I plan to follow B> in my Grandfather's Foot Steps and Clense the world. Cleanse the world? Well, seems to me that you better start by cleaning all that shit outta your Gramp's yard, unless, of course, you find it easier to follow dear ole Gramps footsteps when they are all smeared in shit. Follow your nose, it always knows! Hey, your Gramp's doesn't happen to be old Beelzebub, does he? What with ole Beelz'er being the Lord of the Flies.... Plus, the way you capitalize "Shit"... must be a holy word in your family arcana. Holy Shit, BeerFart! 93 93/93 NChSh 358 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nachash Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 15:58:06 Subject: Disk UpdReq Josh, 93. I received your disk last week and have installed the files on the bbs. Thank you very much for your time and trouble! The whole set has already been downloaded twice... so I can forsee that making your writings available through the electronic media will increase the distribution multi-fold. I have returned the disk back to you so you can pass it along to others.... Also, I will wlecome anything else you can come up with. Pass the word along to your other contacts within and without the Bate Cabal.... 93 93/93 NChSh 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nachash Area: Night Side To: All 3 Aug 92 16:06:08 Subject: Night Side UpdReq 93! Here we go again.... First of all, I would like to thank Frater Almost for his most excellent job as interim moderator after Nick bowed out and while I was in the process of relocating to the bayou.... Thank you Nick and Almost! Secondly, this echo originates from Mumbo Jumbo Kathedral. It's ours and we do with it what we will. I trust everyone has enjoyed it all so far, and I trust we will see it continue to grow and improve. Lastly, the echo is now going to moderator-less. We all know how to be adults here as has been proved every since this echoes inception. The only thing that will not be put up with here is preaching of any sort. Also, try to stay within the topics this echo is dedicated to, although small infrequent deviations will be tolerated, as usual. Please keep a eye out for our new echo, Bahlasti. The echo will be an interactive, electronic version of Kali Lodge's _The Bahlasti Papers_, (which, I am sure, you all subscribe to, correct?). The main thrust of this echo will be magickal political activism. More details to follow... Thats all for now. Tolerance! 93 93/93 NChSh 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Arthur Rosene Area: Night Side To: Mark Krubsack 3 Aug 92 17:09:08 Subject: Typhonian Teratomas UpdReq --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Mumbo Jumbo Kathedral (666:93/93) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Arthur Rosene Area: Night Side To: Mark Krubsack 3 Aug 92 17:11:10 Subject: Typhonian Terratomas, address UpdReq Sure, It's $5.00 + .90 shippng. Black Moon Publishing BOX 19469 Cincinatti, Ohio 45219-0469 Love is the law, Love under Will Arthur Rosene 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Chen Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 3 Aug 92 17:48:10 Subject: Politics and Society UpdReq Oops... that was supposed to read:"Erotic psyche",not:"Erpsyche". Ta-ta. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 3 Aug 92 18:13:12 Subject: Re: Enochian Lexicon UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. AZ> No, Josh. I wasn't joking, just imprecise! There really are 666 DISTINCT AZ> words in the Calls (plus the Aethyr names) in the Geoffrey James version. JN> Adding in the Aethyr names sounds like cheating to me. Why not add in JN> the 91 (maybe 92) names of the sub-Aethyrs while you're at it, and the JN> names of the Zodiacal Kings, and all the divine names from the JN> Tablets? They are as arguably "words" as are the names of the Aethyrs. Well, yeah, of course it's cheating....sort of.... };-] I threw the Aethyr names in with the Keys because they are all, one at a time, parts of the 19th Key, as if you didn't know. I'll add all those other names when I find time to type them in! Unfortunately, just typing them in isn't really good enough, when it comes to all those extracted names. I'm working on the coordinate tables of the Governors right now, which tie the Names to the Elemental Tablets, so that a change to the Tablet is reflected in the derived Names. Just pedantry, but potentially useful in exploring those versions of the Tablets prior to the final Recensa. From what I've been able to gather from the _True_and_Faithful_, the Tabula Recensa was handed to Dee on a platter, so to speak; Dee himself was not with Kelly when the latter 'obtained' it from Raphael (this is on page 15 of the Actio Tertia.) Now, that's just suspicious enough.... Ditto all those other derived names. I'm looking to end up with a simple set of C++ classes which describe the entire system, where everything derived is _really_ derived, from a base set of tables (Elemental Tables, gematria tables, sigil tables, word and meaning tables, extraction-model tables...) and a handful of relatively trivial member functions for hooking everything together. I started doing the thing with Borland, but I really don't like the BGI for graphics, so I put things off until I could get MSoft's Version 7, which gives me a little more latitude with the fonts and graphic bits. Your gematria database is somewhat broader than mine's likely to get (I have only rudimentary interest in Hebrew, for example) but I require some modeling tools for working with alternate gematria schemes and variant Tablets, so in my copious free time, I'm writing some. Have you done any work in that direction? JN> I agree that James has the best version of the Calls -- also of the JN> Tablets. Good scholarship. Now if someone could just tie the Keys to Logaeth.... Looks like the John Dee Society will (at last, and for the first time) be publishing it in a year or two, so that those of us with limited access to the British Museum and failing eyesight can get on with our work. Love is the law, love under will. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Azoth 3 Aug 92 19:25:12 Subject: Muzik UpdReq A> 93, Charles! A> I wandered into Tower Records today.... and wandered out with a pile A> of 'Sadness of Things'(Tibet & friends), 'Wound'(Autopsia), 'Paradise A> Disowned'(Lustmord), 'Sol Veritas Lux' (Sol Invictus) and a very A> curious piece called either 'Ain Soph' by Ars Regia, or vice versa, A> from Nekrophile, #381 of an edition of 500: recorded ritualizations, A> with keyboard accompaniment, and a jacket quote from AL I. 46, 47. A> Nice. Even my wife likes the Lustmord. Thanks for the heads up! A> 93 93/93 My pleasure! I enjoy spreading the "good word". Hehehe... I think you'll like Lustmord's "Heresy" even better than "Paradise Disowned". It is somewhat similar to Current 93's "The Sadness of Things". Both are fine for dark, dark rituals if you like/need musickal accompaniment. Ain Soph is an Italian group, and "Ars Regia" and other things by them tend to have an almost masslike quality -- something very likely to appeal to Thelemites. I have not heard Autopsia's "Wound". I was just turned onto them recently, and the only thing I've got is their "Death Is the Mother of Beauty" which I bought as much for the cover of the CD booklet as for the recommended musick. Buying a CD for its appearance is something I rarely do.... Everything by Sol Invictus is very similar, involving Tony Wakeford's slightly offkey chants. I like it all. You can always depend on them to deliver a steady similarity -- unlike Coil and Current 93, who vary radically from one CD or LP to the next. They're fine too even if unpredictable, but then I groove on surprises. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Miaren Avianna Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 12 Aug 92 14:12:04 Subject: Necrocomnicon? UpdReq Excuse me while I break into laughter. No, I don't use that book for anything. I just thought that the chronic misspellings needed to be recognized as such. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 12 Aug 92 10:58:40 Subject: Fear UpdReq CN> Amen and Hallelujah! Chaos uber alles! Put 'em CN> all in jail and let god sort 'em out! The gods have better things to do....like play raquetball. Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 12 Aug 92 12:28:10 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq MC> JN> Sounds to me like you've just renamed the old Hindu/Zen concept of the > JN> Void -- "out of which all things are created, yet MC>Simialar concepts exist in many cultures. the idea is to >look through all the mythologies to the concept itself. >Chaos has no nationality. Forgive me, Markie, but just where is there something NEW in Chaos magick? In all the stuff I've seen so far, whether here or in publications, it's just borrowing from older systems and maybe changing a few labels. If the description's the same, what matter whether you call it the "Void" or a "pool of energy"? What improvement have you accomplished by changing the label? All the things you and others have provided (so far) as distinguishing characteristics of Chaos magick are things Crowley was saying almost a century ago, and are indistiguishable from the way we were doing things back in the early '70's, though we never bothered to give it a name. This is all starting to sound like you've just put a new coat of paint over the same old stuff. Where's the radical break with the past that I keep hearing about? I DON'T mean to sound denigrating -- I'm frustrated. I really ache for a genuinely new way of looking at the magickal universe, something that takes a jump to a whole new level of significance over all current and prior systems. There's been five or six "generations" of magickal movements since I first got into this area, each claiming to have a new way of doing things. After studying and using most of them, it's become apparent that they are all simply variations -- not improvements -- on themes that have been around for centuries. Some are plain and some are positively rococo, but they are variations nonetheless. It seems like we just keep rolling around the Wheel, no matter how hard we try to break out of it. MC>Do you believe in MAGIC? I don't BELIEVE in anything -- not even my own existence as an individual. >Not true on the "no effort" part though, directing energy takes effort among >other things, which all require energy to do, therefore you >have to direct the energy to direct the energy and >counteract the energy that is working against your purpose >both from outside sources and your own self-induced >limitations...all that clear? ;) It's a knack as Chris >Bray says. I understand that -- I'm not inexperienced in magick, just unfamiliar with the principles of the "chaos" brand of it. I was wondering if you did, though. OK. So obviously the "energy used in the creative act" -- by which I meant the energy used to direct the creative act -- is NOT coming from your pool of infinite energy, just as I said. Next questions: If the amount of energy you can draw from the "pool" is dependent to some extent on the amount of personal energy you can expend, then how do you know that the "pool" has unlimited energy available? Maybe it simply has more energy than you are able to draw. And how do you know that it is universally available, given that no human has ever practiced magick outside the Earth? Perhaps it is a local phenomenon. Seems to me that an inability to perceive the limits of this pool does not mean that such limits are nonexistent. * SLMR 2.1a * Tagline confiscated by the Drug Enforcement Admin. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nick Frost Area: Night Side To: Neuro Sonic 12 Aug 92 21:55:28 Subject: IOT MOUNTAIN TRIBES UpdReq NS> I had heard from a local T.O.P.Y. representative NS> that some I.O.T. enthusiasts were living in Various NS> Mountain Communities practicing thier magickal NS> techniques. Kind of like Death-Culture Communes. NS> I'm awaiting more information. Supposedley some of NS> the members were meeting at the Smoke-In on the NS> 4th, but I couldn't make it due to prior NS> engagements. I'll let you know if I find out NS> anything else, I just figured maybe somebody out NS> there might be able to clue me in. Well if you do learn anything you'll let us all know won't you? I can't find anybody that knows anything about this one. Carpe Noctem *Nick* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nick Frost Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 12 Aug 92 23:07:42 Subject: "Fuzzy Bunny Wiccans" UpdReq TM> actually, i think it is. i believe they are that way because they're TM> not sure what they're doing, so they're terrified of doing something TM> wrong. imho, this is why they deny their dark sides, never thinking TM> that this attitude may be as "wrong" as exercising it. Well every group is so different that we can both be right. ;-) I have personally come across groups of Wiccans that might as well have been the Catholic church as well as others that were just so intent on being good little white witches that they dismissed many valuable magical lessons. But then who am I to decide what lessons are valuable to another person? Carpe Noctem *Nick frost* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Arthur Rosene Area: Night Side To: Gerald Del Campo 12 Aug 92 23:40:44 Subject: herbal freedom! UpdReq 93! Hi.. yeah, the fda just raided Whole Foods Market here in Houston recently..seems like control is a major issue for those bastards.. They confiscated all this stuff that was pretty safe, like CoQ10. Love is the Law, Love under Will Arthur Rosene 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Grendel 9 Aug 92 05:25:00 Subject: Fear UpdReq Gr> Just remember Grendel's Law #1: Pain Hurts! That is Frc's Law #1 as well...funny that! Gr> This is beyond some individuals but is readily apparant if your Gr> chute fails to open. Actually, the statistical ratio of fatalities/mainings is better than expressway traffic at rush hour and even better than hang gliding. And you have an automatic reserve. In the seven years this FAA Certified Jump School has operated, there have been literally thousands of jumps and only a few serious injuries and zero fatalities. I just keep reminding myself of that...over and over. The -=SinMeister=- does not seem to have this problem. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 9 Aug 92 05:28:00 Subject: Re: Correspondence UpdReq CN> Yeah, and the postal charge was amazing too. I calculated that the CN> tiny parcel must have cost him the equivalent of $20 or $30, if not CN> more! Yep. I'm including five dollars U.S. in the next missive....he can exchange it on the black market to pay postage for several similar weight letters. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 9 Aug 92 05:31:00 Subject: Fear UpdReq CN> He has had more than a few VERY scary individuals who were quite CN> frank in admitting that their wish/goal is to make it "into" a future CN> deck or comic book memorial edition. I know you have read _Apocalypse Culture_. Remember the interview with Peter Santos of _Pure_? That was pretty fucking chilly. Such a tasty and illicit rush. That guy is _CLEAR_; know what I mean? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 9 Aug 92 05:38:00 Subject: Re: Lovecraft knew... UpdReq CN> "Missionaries are infernal nuisances who ought to be kept at home." CN> ...and dealt with the old-fashioned way so that they do not terrorize CN> helpless animals, small children and old women!" Like showing them the "improvements" we have made to their supposed contribution (at least the name took) in the Art of creating wet spots on the mattress? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 9 Aug 92 05:45:00 Subject: Re: Coffin cars UpdReq MC> Trade it in for a GEO Metro. I'm 5' 10 1/2" and all legs, but have MC> plenty of room inside, while the outside is a very small car. A Tardis GEO Metro, limited edition. But seriously (?), 5' 10.5''? hummmm...........I remember something about this in an earlier thread. DWM, 6'4'', grn eyes, blnd hair, 34. Looking for....blah-blah-woof-woof! Hey baby; lookin' for Mr. Goodbar? Well, here I am! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 9 Aug 92 05:56:00 Subject: Re: Mag_text.zip UpdReq JN> Glad you liked the database program. I put a lot of work into it. I'm JN> thinking about upgrading the thing, so if you have any suggestions JN> for JN> additions or such, I'd appreciate hearing them. The only Enochian program (hi-rez VGA....quite good) I have seen is the one put out by Ordo Argentum Astrum (c). Is yours similar? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Brynioch 9 Aug 92 06:01:00 Subject: Re: Book Recommendation for Newbies. UpdReq Br> Could someone explain what Chaos magick really is? Does the Chaos Br> Magician tap into or use primal forces? Or is it something more? Read some of the referenced citations and you will find a lot of your initial questions answered as best as they can be. Then it gets into individuation........... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 9 Aug 92 06:07:00 Subject: Re: A question for discussio UpdReq MC> "Energy out of which a creation is formed"...vast pool of primal MC> energy as already described. MC> "Energy used in creative act"...same stuff, but given direction by... MC> ""the ability to create"...the magician. One who has learned to MC> consciously affect the direction of the energy. The mental image of "the flow" when the synch is really locked-in tight and all the right juices are flowing is finding myself working on a machine, and _just_ when I need a particular part or tool I simply reach out into the cartoon whirlwind constantly on the verge of coalescing about me, and find _just_ the right tool or material I needed at that instant. When I finish with it, I toss it back into that from whence it came....... Big Fun! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 9 Aug 92 06:09:00 Subject: Re: Dark, dark and dusty.... UpdReq JN> (i.e. golf pros, successful entrepreneurs, etc.) attribute all their JN> success to the intervention of Jesus Christ. Sounds like since the JN> stick JN> didn't work, they're trying the carrot. I can't figure out why they leave it there. It's TOO slick to be any good to anyone. All it does is smear and it has no absorbency at all! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 9 Aug 92 06:14:00 Subject: Re: Nox Theoria, In Defense of the Black ArtsUpdReq That was one of the best articles I've read in quite a while. A true Wordsmith! Thank you for the pleasure of reading it! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 9 Aug 92 06:16:00 Subject: Fear UpdReq CN> Indeed, the former have a large dose of humor to leaven the loaf they CN> distribute, and like the jesters of medieval times they manage to CN> fool many mundanes into believing that their message is less serious CN> than it really is. Tolerance often arises more out of laziness and CN> stupidity than it does out of a philosophy of respect for others.... These aren't the Droids your looking for! (rummaging in my smoke-and-mirrors kit....) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 9 Aug 92 06:26:00 Subject: Re: Chaos and learning magick UpdReq JC> IMHO, the main thing you will need to get a good grasp of CM is a JC> change of views and a commitment to follow through, in practice, with JC> experimentation. ---------------- The Key Word! My experience with magic has been similar to learning to play the musical instruments I enjoy. Practice, practice and then practice some more. I'm certainly not talking about "boot camp" discipline, but committing to learn in a playful and relatively unstructured way (although the anti- thesis of this can be invaluable as a tool as well.) JC> None of this comes overnight. Most changes of views come through JC> informed discussion and/or willingness to learn and probe JC> experiences. Crowley once said that magick is about as accurate as golf. "On" days, "off" days....occasionally a hole-in-one or sinking a particularly difficult putt. I think it an apt analogy. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Brynioch 9 Aug 92 06:48:00 Subject: Re: Finding a system. UpdReq Br> Recently I've been posting some queries about CM and the various Br> orders, I realize that there must be dozens of them out there Br> (Perhaps more?), and that finding one that co-incides with my ideas Br> could possibly take a very long time. You have the rest of your life! }:D Br> The first books on the Occult that I recall reading were 'The Br> Satanic Bible', 'The Neconomicon', and 'The Satanic Rituals'. That Br> was when I was a young teenager. The _Satanic Bible_ was one of the first occult books I ever acquired. I was about thirteen and it was the first edition (I still get a kick out of showing my Setian friends the foreward by Michael Aquino in that volume.) I stole it from B. Dalton Booksellers; ironic, huh? Br> Later I read a few other books like Br> 'Magick in Theory and Practice' and 'Gems of the Equinox' (The Br> hardcover one). The references in Crowley's books and the Br> Necronomicon we're a bit too...deep for me, I couldn't understand Br> half what was going on in the books... I also couldn't get an idea Br> or feel for the Caballah. I studied just about every paradigm under the Moon and practiced quite a few of them to a reasonable level of proficiency. I was aware of the Western Traditions the entire time, but whenever I picked up a book on Qabala or one _by_ Crowley I felt it was a mish-mash of bullshit that "so called magicians" were using to impress themself and others. It was not until May of '83 C.E. that I began to see some underlying patterns and started trying to grow a fingernail to scratch the surface. I taught myself the Hebrew alphabet (along with a tiny vocabulary) in order to understand the Tarot and Qabala. Alchemy, CM and just about anything else in the area was fair game for consumption. Br> I also seem to prefer rituals with more..direction, purpose. Br> Rituals that are more...precise (?). Our CM group that meets here usually gathers the night before and composes an impromptu outline so everything follows smoothly. Since we have the advantage of a large Temple; ten can fit very comfortably with no problem, and there is still room for sword work and gesticulation freely. The last few times, I have totally lost track of time, imagining it was at most a twenty minute ritual and I find it lasted an hour and a half! Br> Does this help any of you out at all towards a suggestion for a Br> group/author? I'm open to any or all questions that may help in Br> making this determination. If I already said this once, forgive me...short term memory loss and all that. You can find Temple of Set files available on many varied BBSs. And many others, but the ToS material is directed toward beginners. But I think no matter what degree is Recognized in the individual by the Temple of Set, the _Crystal Tablet_ will remain a source book of invaluable measure, IMHO! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 9 Aug 92 07:02:00 Subject: Re: Politics and society UpdReq MC> Always fun to torture the ignorant. ;) I get in moods once in a MC> while when the door to door types come around and give them a lesson MC> in basic white paganism. They're trying sooo hard to be polite and MC> to understand...you can just see them shaking their heads on it for MC> days. I was having a quiet Saturday early morning drinking coffee, burning this incense that goes REAL GOOD with coffee (but like Clinton, I didn't inhale!), and what should appear at the door but Jehova......er...PREY! And cleverly disguised as human beings at that. I could see the _Watchtowers_ in their hands thru the peep-hole....I tiptoed over to the stero and gave 'em _Jesus Wept_ (Current 93) at a few hundred decibels; the opening of the door coinciding with the first chants. I had a copy of _Flames From Hell_ in my hands (which WAS what I had been reading when the doorbell rang.) They stared for a moment and then proceeded to the next door. I was disappointed! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 9 Aug 92 07:31:00 Subject: Re: Book Recommendation for Newbies. UpdReq MC> Something more always exists because Chaos uses whatever works from MC> any system. Chaos is understanding the basic nature of magic rather MC> than attaching to a system of belief or ritual. Free belief is MC> something Spare wrote about...freeing yourself from all beliefs which MC> only limit you so that all things are possible. I'm trying not to beat the same old drum, but this is one of the things about the ToS that was/is still such a rewarding and effective thing. Once you have proven your grasp of the Setian basis and view (within two years), you are Recognized and are free to roam as you Will with all the help of the organization. From the High Priest to the newest First Degree. For the rest of your life with no restrictions as to time limit or periodic "proof" of your Work, etc. Of course, you can join an Order (of which there are many) in the Temple, write articles or submit art for publication in the quarterly _The Scroll of Set_, correspond with Legions of people through the Inter-communication Roster, read all the back issues of the _Scroll_ (which I've found is essential to a complete understanding of where the Temple is today and some of its most crucial tenets) or maybe curl up with Dr. Aquinos 900 page/footthick tome outlining the complete history from inception of _The Church of Satan_. Or maybe -=SinMeister=- and I could go to a mall and stand there looking at each other saying "What do you want to do?"....."I don't know, what do YOU want to do?" And ride the escalators without holding the hand rails! Or eat apples from the grocery without washing them! Hey! I'M LIVING FOR TODAY! I don't care! (he said at least as cool as one of those guys on 90125). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 9 Aug 92 07:33:00 Subject: Re: Geezer City, USA UpdReq MC> Eris the cat never kept a seat warm for ME?! Hey! I told you NEVER to bring her into this! SHE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Rex Irae 9 Aug 92 07:35:00 Subject: Re: negative magic UpdReq RI> Very well then, I do thank you for the advice and I will see what I RI> can find at my local library. Being that I live in the most Catholic RI> state in the Union (RI is 98% catholic), I'm not expecting to find RI> much... heh heh. Then again, you might be surprised. Sometimes in the most unlikely places... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 10 Aug 92 08:10:16 Subject: Fear UpdReq quoting JONATHAN CORWIN To: GRENDEL ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ JC}>G> ...I think hang-gliding is more fun, though... JC}> unless the struts give out... but that makes it even more af a fear rush 93 jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * Ferengi: Insurance Salesmen of the Galaxy 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718