From: Rex Irae Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 6 Aug 92 15:23:20 Subject: Re: negative magic UpdReq -=- Markie Chao imparted this unto Todd Rourke -=- MC> Start with everything you find in the library on magic(k), and ask MC> questions here. You'l get a lot of different attitudes and MC> viewpoints. At some point a direction should appeal to you, and Very well then, I do thank you for the advice and I will see what I can find at my local library. Being that I live in the most Catholic state in the Union (RI is 98% catholic), I'm not expecting to find much... heh heh. _ _ / Josh Norton sent a message to Vitriol on 08-03-92 13:55 <=- -=> Mag_text.zip <=- JN> One thing I was considering was including a way for someone to create JN> their own gematria for the Enochian database, replacing one of the JN> "speculative" gematrias currently used. That's not a bad idea, considering that I know of four different systems (counting the Octal -- where did that one come from, anyway?) I'll let you know if I think of other suggestions. You may want to ask Azoth, as well. * BWave/QWK v0.96 * =+=Vitriol=+= 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Night Side To: Brynioch 6 Aug 92 08:06:14 Subject: Re: Book Recommendations UpdReq -=> Brynioch sent a message to Markie Chao on 08-01-92 12:57 <=- -=> Re: Book Recommendations. <=- B> As for Crowley, I an understand why he might B> have wanted to be obscure. Makes the prospective student B> work harder and trying to understand what the hell he was B> talking about. BTW, if you get tired of fighting this, you may want to check out Magick Without Tears, which is meant to be so simple, even a senator can understand it! * BWave/QWK v0.96 * End of sermon. Let the orgy begin. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 7 Aug 92 09:01:14 Subject: Dark, dark and dusty.... UpdReq JN> Just scream "God is a GIRL and her name is ERIS!" and walk away. Tee Hee! I had an experience once that proves that camoflage is a fun thing....One year when my daughter was still a toddler, my husband and I were invited to a wine tasting Downtown. It was also a graduation party for some college friends. We were all dect out in our"Sunday Best",(tie and jacket for him, skirt and heels for me, and the baby in a frilly dress.) We were crossing Fountain Square when a woman who was standing on the square walked over to us and shoved a pamphlet in my face. "Have you heard the word of the LORD?" she said in capital letters. What I could see of the printing on the pamphlet were the words "Going to HELL?". I smiled politely at the woman and said,"No thank you, We're Pagans." Her jaw must have dropped to the ground! We just continued on our way. She didn't even try to catch up with us. We enjoyed the incident. Camo does pay! Hail CARGO! Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Turbator Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 7 Aug 92 23:58:20 Subject: Re: Politics and society UpdReq -=> Quoting Markie Chao to Turbator <=- T> Is good idea, how about C. Jung and W. Reich? MC> Probably good too...guess I oughts read these guys first hand one of MC> these days myself I think that you'll enjoy them, although some think W. Reich was strange. WILL LOVE Turbator ... "I say we nuke the site from Orbit, it's the only way to be sure" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Turbator Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 8 Aug 92 00:10:58 Subject: Re: Politics and Society UpdReq -=> Quoting Markie Chao to Chen <=- C> Say- did you get my original message- #437? MC> Since the numbers change constantly and I'm not on every day anymore, MC> I don't know which message you mean. What are we talking about? I think that Chen is talking about the the message prior to the one that you replied to. Same subject, about 10 or 15 messages before. ... New Mail not found. Start whine-pout sequence? (Y/N) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Turbator 8 Aug 92 13:23:14 Subject: Re: Politics and society Sent UpdReq Of course! Reich was a genius! And we all know genii are mad to the bone, don't we? Tesla told me so, at last night's seance! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Grendel 8 Aug 92 13:26:28 Subject: Fear Sent UpdReq G> ...I think hang-gliding is more fun, though... unless the struts give out... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: All 8 Aug 92 18:54:58 Subject: New Dark Tunes Sent UpdReq I latched onto a couple more CD's today that are both dark and fine: 1. Something by a group called GLOD. No title, but the CD is numbered DG-107, and you can obtain info on written material and a video by writing to GLOD, P.O. Box 34025, Detroit, MI 48234. 2. Projekt's "Terrace of Memories". They welcome correspondence at P.O. Box 1591, Garden Grove, CA 92642- 1591. I'd rate this one right up there with Current 93's "The Sadness of Things", Lustmord's "Heresy" and Nocturnal Emissions' "Invocation of the Beast Gods". 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Shadow Mage Area: Night Side To: DarkLing 4 Aug 92 23:41:00 Subject: Test UpdReq > Seems to work mostly. It's missing a FROM address in > the header and on the Origin line it shows the 0:0/0 number. > Other than that, it looks OK here. > Bong, preferably. Cool, I'll see whats wrong with my Origin Line then... Ah, it's good to see a healthy herbal interest still infects the Denizens of this area.. Must be something in the air..|) Pax...Shadow..-><- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 7 Aug 92 12:53:08 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq JC> Perhaps I wasn't clear; much of the old ceremonial >magick I find (not within existing orders, but from >"grimoires", etc.) is camouflaged in Christ >speak. I haven't yet decided whether this is just an observed code or if th >magickians are serious in aspiring to xtian-centered divine will by magickal >means (in alchemy, eg). Either way, trad. xtian bondage >(bondage to the implicit psychological foundations) becomes >transmuted to a variant -- exoterically different, >esoterically similar to varying degrees. The bondage >continues, you've just traded shackles for the stock, >that's all ;) Jonathan; Sorry I didn't answer your last message. I'd saved it off-line for later work and -- typical for me -- forgot about it. I agree that many of the ritual forms in medieval grimoires follows RC forms. Not surprising, as most of the magicians still considered themselves Christians, despite knowledge that the Church would get down on them if they were found out. And, because communication was extremely slow, and books were expensive, one-at-a-time hand copies, RC ritual was just about the ONLY example they had available for devising rituals. However, "bondage" is a relative matter; what seems restrictive from a 20th century American view was dangerously radical from a 13th-century perspective. I wouldn't put those old magicians down just because they used Christian forms; you've never experienced the kind of intellectual wasteland and cultural restrictions they had to deal with. * SLMR 2.1a * Antelope Freeway -- 5 Mi. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Vitriol 7 Aug 92 13:01:10 Subject: Re: BATE CABAL INFO UpdReq VI>Which reminds me -- would you happen to have a copy of the Book of >the Seniors on disk? I'll be glad to pay p&h, and with the usual >agreement to upload it to my BBSes, etc. Hmm. I do have _Seniors_ on disk, and had considered sending it along. The problem is, the book makes allegations about my own "role" in things that I am rather reluctant to accept. I get this feeling that spreading it around might in some way end up creating expectations that I am not willing to fulfill. Let me think about it a while, and consult the I Ching. VI>I want to thank you again for the previous disk. It's causing some >new synapses to go wild in some part of my dextro-hemispherical lobe! Glad you liked the stuff. Hope it generates some new approaches for you. * SLMR 2.1a * If it's Dual, it's dumb. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Frc 7 Aug 92 13:16:12 Subject: Re: A question for discu UpdReq FR>I was Prolocutor of a GD lodge for several years and found it to be >about as sticky as a bottle of Karo (or was that KY, I forget). FR>Anyway, I don't think you learn much of anything LHP in these systems. What I meant is that, supposedly, experience of one's "dark" side is supposed to come up automatically as one starts learning how to astral project (which is one of the tasks of the Yesod grade). The dark aspects of the self interfere with the ability to see reliably on the astral plane, and one can't get past them without understanding and dealing with them. At least that's what the G.D. documents and various books on projection say. I can't say from my own experience as the techniques I was trained in do not distinguish between "dark" and "light" aspects of being. * SLMR 2.1a * Tagline confiscated by the Drug Enforcement Admin. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 7 Aug 92 16:25:14 Subject: Dark, dark and dusty.... UpdReq >continued on our way. She didn't even try to catch up with >us. We enjoyed the incident. Camo does pay! > Hail CARGO! I know what you mean. I usually dress in J.C. Penney casual style for exactly that reason. Of course, I have an advantage in that people tend not to bother someone as big as I am. I'm never accosted by the fundies when I'm walking alone, and when I'm not alone, they always accost the person with me instead. The only sort of person it doesn't work with is confidence tricksters. Seems hardly a month goes by but some dude tries to sell me an empty paper bag by pretending it has an ounce of pot in it -- or a subscription to a non-existent magazine. I think con-men see a big man as a challenge instead of a threat. * SLMR 2.1a * I left my heart in Chichen Itza. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 7 Aug 92 16:18:16 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq MC>Primal chaos is the infinite potential. It's a hell of a thing to >try to describe, but it is unformed or undirected creative energy. > The old dime store occult explanation of magic using `The >Force' from Star Wars could be used in an example here, >although it's probably going to get me some criticism and >isn't what I would use in the book. The energy exists in >all time and space, and needs only the slightest nudge, >even of thought, to take direction. >That wordless feeling that you get just before the magic >works...that is what I am talking about. MC> JN> And also, do you distinguish between "the energy > JN> out of which a creation > JN> is formed", "the energy used in a creative act" and "the ability to > JN> create"? (Watch out, I'm setting you up. ) MC>"Energy out of which a creation is formed"...vast pool of >primal energy as already described. MC>"Energy used in creative act"...same stuff, but given direction by... MC>""the ability to create"...the magician. One who has >learned to consciously affect the direction of the energy. Sounds to me like you've just renamed the old Hindu/Zen concept of the Void -- "out of which all things are created, yet it is not empty; which encompasses all things, yet it is not full." I must admit to some scepticism about the idea of an infinite "pool of energy" available for the taking. It sounds too much like a free lunch. It is true that my own invocations often appear to return more "energy" from somewhere than I put out in the invocation, but the amount returned does seem to possess some kind of relationship to the amount I expend. It's not like I'm getting huge amounts of power just by thinking about it. This is the problem I have with your definitions above. You are saying that the "energy used in the creative act" is coming out of the primal chaos just like the "energy out of which the creation is made". If this were the case, it would take NO effort on our part to create something in the world, no matter how huge or complex the created thing is. True, 'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished, but I've never seen any magician manage the trick. You have to expend energy to get back energy. >Can't wait to see what you are setting me up for... Actually, I'm encouraging you to set yourself up, so I can knock down your ideas. It's so much easier that way. * SLMR 2.1a * Help stamp out Gerald Schueler. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 8 Aug 92 17:34:42 Subject: Chaos and learning magick UpdReq JC> Chaos magick reflects the dissolution of cultural JC> blinders JC> that bind most magickal practices. Since it is a JC> fundamentally different attitude and understanding JC> of the nature of the magickal reality we exist JC> in, the practitioners tend to be well versed or at JC> least understand the traditional basics of magick JC> (to paraphrase my favorite english teacher: I JC> don't care if you break the rules of good english, JC> but you've got to know JC> 'em cold if you're going to break them to good effect). That one was good enough to bear repeatng. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718