From: Glenn Sieb Area: Night Side To: Gerald Del Campo 18 Apr 92 00:33:48 Subject: Re: Crowley and Wiccans Sent UpdReq -=> In a magickal message to Diane Vera, Gerald Del Campo said <=- GDC> Most WICCANS I know are feminists. Crowley was not. ALSO, most GDC> WICCANS I know are opposed to "Do what thou wilt..." without the "An GDC> it harm none...", as if there were some kind of difference between GDC> them. Gerald...you're warping the Wiccan meaning of 'wilt'. It is *not* similar to the Thelemic definition of 'will'. When one says "Do what thou wilt", they are saying to do whatever you want. Not do what your Will tells you. There is a *big* difference between 'Do what thou wilt' and 'Do what thou wilt an harm ye none'. (Plus, I may be for equal rights, and Civil Rights, and I may be pro-choice, but I hardly call myself 'feminist'... most 'feminists' would castrate me if I dared called myself 'feminist' in their presence.. :} ) I just wanted to make that point, as it seems you were deriving 'wilt' to mean 'will' in the Thelemic sense... B*B Glenn ... Greetings from Bag End, Harrison, New Jersey 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Theseus Area: Night Side To: Frc 17 Apr 92 23:31:08 Subject: Re: POSTING UpdReq FRC made a hypnotic gesture, and this message appeared ... > Hows about the rest of youz denizens of Cyberspace? Personally, *I* just got a job! Now that I'm a working stiff (as opposed to being an unemployed stiff), I have less time for the things which used to fill up the time between interviews and resume mailings, such as vacuuming, dusting, dishes, etc. This, in turn, leaves me with less time for things-to- do-other-than-cleaning, hence, my lack of participation on the echoes (and all BBS's I belong to). Even my Asysoping on one board has suffered. I got a frantic call from the Sysop wondering if I was still alive or not! Oh well.... BB&ATS -=Thes=- ...When forced to choose between two evils, try the new one. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Bobby Meizer 17 Apr 92 19:58:50 Subject: und der spiegel¯Y» UpdReq Thank you for that blast from the past. Was there any point to it? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Gerald Del Campo 17 Apr 92 20:00:32 Subject: Re: Crowley UpdReq Just in case anyone cares... GDC> Uncle AL was somewhat of an asshole. This does ^^^^^^^^ It came up in one of the British magazines (wish I could remember which) that the British are somewhat offended by this American reference for Mr. Crowley. Stuffy lot, but they have respect. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phule Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 17 Apr 92 17:58:00 Subject: * UpdReq I don't know. I got it from a book by robert asprin. If it is, that'll be TWICE as cool. the Phulish one 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Triple Six Area: Night Side To: Fra.: Apfelmann 17 Apr 92 14:41:00 Subject: Sigil Program UpdReq In a message to Jonathon <11 Apr 92 19:51> Fra.: Apfelmann wrote: FA> I just have ideas how it should be made... One should be able to FA> draw a sigil (like paintbrush or so) then it should be flashed FA> into your normal programs (word or so) like sublim2 or selfhelp... FA> (Sublim2 and selfhelp will be available at Nachash's system !) I use THEDRAW to create the sigil, usually w/ some parts in flashing ANSI, then use the word method, put into the subliminal program to flash the word on the screen whilst charging the sigil. Cheers! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Phule 18 Apr 92 11:06:58 Subject: * UpdReq Is that from the Myth Adventures series? I've had the whole series around for years but haven't had time for fiction in soooooo long! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Theseus 18 Apr 92 11:11:24 Subject: Re: Taglines UpdReq T> ...When forced to choose between two evils, try the new one. I like this one. :) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Night Side To: Gerald Del Campo 18 Apr 92 21:11:54 Subject: Re: Crowley and Wiccans Sent UpdReq On April 16, you responded to my April 13 message to Theseus, "Re: Crowley and Wiccans: . GDC > But overall, I think most of today's Thelemites would agree that Uncle AL was somewhat of an asshole. This does not, however, cancel out his abilities and accomplishments as a Magician. It is the Xtian concept that in order for man to have anything worth while he must first be perfect (without the false ssense of sin). .I agree. Crowley had lots of valuable insights, and provided a lot of the inspiration (whether acknowledged or not) for most of today's major magic(k)al religions. . DV > This same argument is also useful in combatting Wiccan anti-Satanist bigotry, because Crowley used lots of Satanic symbolism too (as a prominent part of his very eclectic mix of symbolism from almost every known religion). . GDC > Crowley did not believe in the Xtian Satan. The Satan Crowley admired was Pan. .No, Crowley did not believe in the literal existence of the Christian Satan, any more than most Satanists do. But he still used plenty of Christian-derived Satanic symbolism (as a prominent part of his eclectic mix of symbolism from lots of other religions too, of course). . DV > Alas, Crowley *was* awfully sexist and racist; there's no denying that! . GDC > But he DID love women :) .As long as their lives revolved around HIM (as he rather explicitly said in MAGICK WITHOUT TEARS, Chapter 38, "Woman -- Her Magical Formula"). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Diane Vera Area: Night Side To: All 18 Apr 92 21:13:16 Subject: Pentagrams Sent UpdReq Does anyone know when and how the downward-pointing pentagram came to be associated with Satanism? .It didn't always have this meaning. The Order of the Eastern Star uses a downward-pointing pentagram as its symbol, and they sure aren't Satanists (except in the imaginations of the most paranoid funnymentalist conspiracy theorists). Gardnerian Wicca uses a downward-pointing pentagram in some of its rituals, though in most contexts it uses upward-pointing pentagrams. .Does anyone know the meaning of the "averse pentagrams" in Crowley's "Liber V vel Reguli: Being the Ritual of the Mark of the Beast", in MAGICK IN THEORY AND PRACTICE? .An older friend of mine briefly belonged to a pre-LaVey Satanist group back in the mid-1960's, and all their pentagrams were upward- pointing. .So, I'm wondering: Did Anton LaVey (or perhaps Diane Hegarty, or someone else in the early Church of Satan) invent the idea that the downward-pointing pentagram is a Satanic symbol? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718