From: Lazarus Long Area: Mundane To: Amethyst 13 Oct 94 15:22:00 Subject: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq Hello Amethyst! Answering a msg of <10 Oct 94>, from Amethyst to Paul Seymour: Amethyst, maybe you should realize that not every gynecologist is sleazy and not everybody is FORCED into an abortion and goes through the hell that you did. I also don't take a side on the abortion thing because first of all I'm not a female, and second, I've never gotten anybody pregnant. I don't know what sort of emotions and physical changes people go through-- at least not first hand. But I think that both sides are really messed up. Maybe something that the pro-life folks should do, instead of yelling about abortion being murder and stuff like that, is educate people about how to prevent pregnancy in the first place? Aren't they sort of exerting their energy into the wrong place? There wouldn't be people wanting abortions if they didn't get pregnant. [ Lazarus Long*FidoNet 1:349/32.12*arne7546@TAO.sosc.sosshe.edu ] [ BlaNet 66:2100/0 * SOKUNet 32:100/12 * PODNet 93:9703/8 ] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Doral Area: Mundane To: Amethyst 15 Oct 94 00:26:04 Subject: Abortion UpdReq -=>Amethyst sputtered Anouncement?!?! to Paul and then screamed... Am> They don't always give the information these women need to make the Am> right choice. Do they show them what their baby looks like at the Am> stage they are aborting and discuss its development? Do they tell Am> them that there is such a thing as post-abortion trauma syndrome and Am> how it can give them years of depair and remorse, including moments of Am> comtemplated suicide? I know it's real, but everyone around me I agree that these pro-choice groups SHOULD give the women more information regarding abortion, and its physiological and psychological effects on the woman, but I also feel it is the woman's responsibility to find out this information. To solely blame the pro-choice groups is a little off kilter. Am> claimed I was just being silly and told me to grow up and get over it! Youch. If someone close to me ever had to go through this experience, you can bet I would be there for them. After giving up the life of a child, ANYONE would need a shoulder. Am> Today, I cannot say that I am pro-choice or pro-life. I disagree with I am pro-choice myself, but only in some VERY limited cases. Abortion is NOT birth control, and shouldn't be used as such. Am> they? I had to fight for Erinn all alone against so much Am> opposition...and thank Goddess I had the strength to! Congratulations! It takes a lot of strength to make it through something as difficult as this. Am> I believe that when the gods make a life, they are creating a sacred Am> thing and no one has the right to end it before its time. I really Am> believe that abortion goes completely against the Wiccan Rede. Do Am> Wiccans really think that an embryo is not a form of life while a Am> plant is? Do people who wouldn't kill a fly believe in killing an Am> unborn child? Isn't that just a little contradictory?! I am not sure how to answer this one. When a child is forming inside you from an act of love, I would hope the child is carried to term and loved by their parents. However, I also feel that if a woman is impregnated as a result of rape, or incest, that the woman should have the choice to abort. To have a constant reminder of a rape or incest in your life, would be VERY painful to most. Even giving it up for adoption can be very painful, as you still know that the child was created in part by a sadistic individual, and subconciously that evil will live on in the child. Logical, no. Real, yes. Am> Perhaps someday, my karma will come in the form of watching one of my Am> daughters abort a grandchild. I know I will be heartbroken. I hope May that day never come. I think you may have already paid your karmic debt by raising three wonderful children to better the world. Am> where so many loving people are childless and long to have a baby and Am> there are so many methods of contraception, there is no need for it. Am> Every child conceived in this world is wanted by someone, somewhere, Am> and every woman should have the sense and decency to take Am> responsibility for her sexuality. It would be nice if every child who wasnt wanted could go to a pair of loving parents, but sometimes that just isnt an option for some of these mothers. It would cause even more psychological strain than the abortion. Not what I would call fair to the child, but to destroy one or more lives bringing a child into the world doesnt strike me as right either. Am> I can accept it if the woman would certainly die by carrying the Am> pregnancy to term, but in the case of convenience, which is what it is Am> 95% of the time, there's no excuse for it. Even rape shouldn't be an Am> excuse...it's not the child's fault who his father is and what he did Am> to his mother...why punish the child for the crime of his father with Am> a death penalty? And as for children who are stricken with defects Hmmm....I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this one. Am> You may not agree with me, but that is how I feel about it. Although I don't agree with everything you say, I think we likely have similar views on the principles of it. Personally, I would be a lot happier if there was not even a REASON for abortion to exist. If there was no rape, and no incest, I would have a hard time condoning abortion. But I can't help but think that in some cases abortion is sometimes the only thing that can be healthy for the mother. If carrying the child to term is going to cost her her life, or ruin her chances for a 'normal' life, then I think she should have the option to abort. But for those who think they should be able to use as a form of birth control, and take no precautions against it, I have little in the way of sympathy. Bright blessings to you Amythyst! Doral ... Death is merely a chance to roll a new character. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718