From: Ed Tillman Area: Mundane To: Lisa l. rogers 15 Aug 93 11:25:28 Subject: Montel Williams UpdReq Hello Lisa! Llr> From: spirit@brewich.hou.tx.us (Lisa l. rogers) Llr> Newsgroups: pod.mundane Llr> Subject: Montel Williams Llr> @Organization: The Brewers' Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US Llr> @Message-ID: Llr> @Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 22:39:57 CDT Llr> I would be happy to work with anyone to get better PR for all Pagans Llr> everywhere. I have done so in the past; my father is a police officer and Llr> I often correct disinformation that is sent to his station. Let me know Llr> what's going on. Well! Welcome and Blessed Be! I met your sysop at the CMA Beltaine Festival this year, and have been rtrying to communicate with him about this very issue. However, we are on different networks, and have a bit of trouble connecting from time to time. Have you ever seen or read the "Law Enforcement Guide to Wicca?" A very intriguing, generalized overview of Pagani as written BY a police officer and for police officers. I could try to get you one if you like! Namaste! Ed 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Eulenspygel Area: Mundane To: Gwathorn 16 Aug 93 16:22:02 Subject: Besides Gods UpdReq Hi, For the sake of keeping my mind on the subject I split your last post into 2 replies _This_ one is the unimportant part: .N> You obviously mentioned that for the enlightenment of the other .N> readers in this echo, because it impresses me as much as you would tell .N> me that you prefer blue knickers to grey ones :) > But I do! There is always a 3rd option but I never picked you for a nudist especially not in your solid body. > It was a reference to air actually, but it seems you missed it :( Life is cruel, things get missed all the time, that includes casual hints and swift comments which presume a high level of mindreading of the opponent > So .Nisaba is more experienced than both you and I ! Maybe you should > take that into consideration with your postings. Of course she is, she has no trouble conversing with either of us, while we have to spend half of our posts to figure out in retrospect who brought the moon or the price of fish into the game. Eu> assuming you left your Felix & spiderman magazines at the year of Eu> 18 for more occult studies, > Chuckle, I never wasted my time on comics. I was more > interested in partial differentials and the concepts of > time from the Schrodinger equations at that age... Well that explains a lot, a typical case of a child who gave up his toys too early. I guess Donald Duck could have been a good friend of yours on your serious quest.... Eu> would be much closer if we want to stick to viewpoints we can share Eu> in our common 'objectivity' approach. > You used clear mathematical symboligy and I was pointing > our the more apropriate symbology to use. It was your call > WRT the system we used. And BTW all our discussions can be > mapped into a pure Mathematical framework. Category theory > is a post grad subject that people who magor in Pure Maths > only touch on :( Sounds fair enough, I enjoyed math within physics because it helped me to make more sense out of the driving forces behind the scenes. Pure maths wasn't my flavour then, but I guess that would be very different now. I enjoy a little excursion every now and then whithin my long talks to a friend of mine who is a maths teacher, but who's also into metaphysics, which is a rather rare combination. Eu> I really like that, so you _can_ be funny if you try hard enough. > Yep but beneath the humor was the seriousness that pointed > towards the hole in your understanding and hence the entire > discussion to date! You are right I still have a hole , but it's the gap created by your "Clayton's" style of humour that I'm trying to fill. Beside that, a resistance to share the same view is not necessarily a hole. Eu> Many people who are into the occult, can belief anything Eu> under the sun but when it commes to aliens from another Eu> dimension or UFOs their tolerance level is exceeded :) Gw> I think you'd be suprised here... Eu> No, I wouldn't; to believe in extraterrestrial intelligences Eu> is a natural & necessary outcome of common sense. > So by your argument > Very few of the readers here have common sense!!! > Nice one, would you like to insert the other foot... > Call it whatever you want since you are talking about a reader type which fits into _your_ perception of a _typical_ reader. I wouldn't have the foggiest how alien-friendly the avarage PODS reader is. Don't expect me to explain any of _your_ pre-assumptions. Eu> My letters Eu> to you wouldn't be as long as they are if I'd consider your Eu> view as narrow or hmmm, un-bendable :) > My views are fluid up to a point then they become maliable > and then rigid. Eventually they break and reset. But the > temperature needs to be a lot higher to reach breaking > point here... > Anyone for a definition of flaming. > Hmmm, I pressed the reset button on the system of my worldview recently. I'm sure your returning Saturn will hint you into a similar direction. Flaming seems to be more suitable to bring emotions back from shadowland rather than touching melting points of causal/mental manifestations. Eu> I never will, because I believe in probabilities, though they Eu> are very different to the ones explained in quantum physics. > Smile, > So would you explain both your understanding of Quantum > Statistics and how that differs from your use of the word > probabilities. Oh no,sorry about that, but I've got enough cans of worms open which make me stumple enough on my way back to the subject we started with :) /\Regards ^ _ \ o o/-\ ( u ) @ \o/Eulenspygel ... Is memory loss a disability or a healthy self protection? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Eulenspygel Area: Mundane To: Gwathorn 16 Aug 93 16:23:10 Subject: Gods UpdReq Hi Gwathorn! Eu> We are no gods & we Eu> don't have the perception of gods. > Even using small-g gods this is debatable :( Finally we get to our topic, it makes me very happy to see that I can catch up with our subject at last. In the light of your last statement can you tell me what makes us different from gods then, or what we share, whatever is shorter to explain? Eu> different kettle of fish. A mosquito which sucks blood Eu> doesn't need to know about the blood group divisions of humans Eu> as long as it tastes sweet. > Still going on about entities that suck psychic energy from > below when they could be gathering it from above... Sigh. This is a vital point for the existence & endurance of the gods as long as I talk about the gods interaction with humans I speak about their interaction into the physical world. Whether they receive energy from above or whether the evolve onto higher planes would just fragment our discussion further. The mosquito example pointed towards that exchange of two different levels. Since it didn't bring the point home. Lets assume we are the gods. For the plants & animals we feed on, only the physical level if interaction counts, when we are once discarnate, we(the gods) might still exist but for the within the reality we shared whith the plant & animal kingdom we are not real any longer, nor are gods without interacting worshippers. Did you ever hear about some type of trees in Africa'ss degrassed areas which protected themself from extinction in producing 1st an ugly taste, but after some hungry & desperate creatures still fed on them, even produced toxins in their leaves and finally fell back onto their own feet or roots, because all suckers vanished :) Did this make it clearer what I ment? Eu> Agreed, because if god is the source & the whole universe his/her Eu> offspring, than the source + its offspring manifestation = _more_ Eu> than just the sum of the sets mentioned. > I include the Material,Astral,Mental and Spiritual planes as > MANIFEST! Well I didn't, but Thanks!! definitions like this make it a lot clearer to follow your drift :) Eu> Why do you think the gods are so keen not to share their Eu> followers with another god? > Smile. How could there NOT be gods who require this knid of > attention. Simply because of their developmental stage regarding the detachment from feelings like frustration. Why shoudn't some gods have reached the same tolerance as a 3rd grade Zen scholar. If they don't rely so much on _our_ worship like you suggested, then they should worry even less about human's preference to _other_ gods, don't you think? Eu> So keen that they bring out Eu> commandments which say "...not worship other gods beside me" Eu> & get 'emotionally' upset if somebody brakes them. > Read your bible with a commentary on the Kabbala in your hand > next time. It would have been a constructive contribution from your side, to point out what different meaning the QBL gives to the bible situation I refered, rather then attempt to talk in a classical schoolmasters voice what one _has_ to do to come to the same conclusion as him/you. Since it's only one thought, you don't have to write an essay. Just give me a hint what you mean and don't assume anybody else would draw the same results as you, in just using the same tools as you. Personaly I read a thousand meanings people of a certain background put into the bible in an attempt to share their paradigm, I don't see at the moment why I should add a few more. Eu> I must admit since the start of our discussion I expanded Eu> my definition of gods & included a group (small percentage of Eu> course) which would survive the lack of worshippers. > Surely the size of that subset is infinite. A very important point since you seem to talk more about the once who _do_ survive while I prefer the others for our discussion which foccusses on whether they are _real_. Eu> Just recently I expanded my limited view of magik Eu> to a much wider definition, maybe you could do the same with your Eu> definition of gods. > I think we will both be expanding our limited views here. > I have already, although there is still not much overlapping which your view :( > I'm interested in info on Celtic gods at the moment so some > of those would be appreciated. Sorry not yet, but I admit I had the can opener already in my hands, since I feel a strong attraction to Northic & thus Celtic gods, but I can come back to this later after we finnished the general gods discussion, if we ever will :) In the next post I try to row our boat towards the lands of the dreams. /\Regards ^ _ \ o o/-\ ( u ) @ \o/Eulenspygel ... Gods & dreams won't help when you need a hammer & nails. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718