From: J.S. Pereira Area: Magical Plants To: Nightshade 29 May 92 12:46:12 Subject: What Does Mag_plants Mean UpdReq Ne> Within a ritual context where you have seen Cernunnos, please explain Ne> the difference between "being straight" and "tripping". I could see Ne> where I would have some doubts if I saw Cernunnos in either situation Ne> due to socially acceptable upbringing. I have had visions in both Ne> modes and simply the programming that I have received through my life Ne> has caused a momentary questioning of what I perceived. There was one Ne> time where in a potentially tense situation, psychedelics were Ne> provided for use simply in case the participants couldn't handle the Ne> "real thing". The people involved were old hats at tripping and felt Ne> that if things got to intense, they could just pass it off as a trip. That's why I find it more interesting, because if you are doing pyschoactive drugs, it's much too easy to put down anything you experience during a ritual as a physiological reaction. The Cernunnos example came to mind because a friend of mine had a very intense vision of Cernunnos during a Samhain ritual. It took him a good month to process the experience, during that time he thinks he was in great danger of dismissing it as a dream. Problely if he had been doing psychoactive drugs, he would have been able to dismiss the reality of the vision, and would have remained forever stymied, because a very important part of being a Pagan is being able to accept, yes, the Gods are real, and yes, I can see them, and interact with them. As my friend found out, it's one thing to intellectually acknowledge this, it's another thing to actually experience this. I've also seen pyschoactive drugs used as a crutch by too many people, along the lines of *well, I don't get anything out of the ritual if I'm straight.* I find that rather sad. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Alethia Area: Magical Plants To: Starwyn 17 May 92 05:41:00 Subject: Hmmm.. UpdReq eS If anyone see's this, PLEASE respond, so I'll know if it's getting out and S reaching anyone. S S Thanks, and B*B, S Starwyn* You are reaching us here in San Francisco - though I may be a little late in the telling! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose X Area: Magical Plants To: Earthlady 30 May 92 08:05:00 Subject: Re: Harmaline UpdReq Ea> Thanks for a most interesting post. Quite welcome! There are few enough of us doing this sort of work. I feel it is imperative for everyone to freely exchange information. There is a loose knit group internationally who does this sort of information exchange. All in all, we are few in number....relatively. Ea> I copied the quotes to an echo where several members have had Ea> longtime benevolent contact with assorted entities -- ETs, Ea> interdimensional beings, they aren't sure where they're from -- for Ea> their comparison. Some of the descriptions of the entities were Ea> familiar to me from their discussions. An interesting subject to ponder. I have noticed that in _The Vision and the Voice_, Crowley has a hand-drawn picture of an Enochian deity called "Lam." It looks almost exactly like one of the "Whitley Streiber" entities. Ea> The main difference: These folks have these conversatons without Ea> benefit of external stimuli, consciousness-altering ritual, etc. It Ea> spontaneously happens to them. Ea> Any idea how? This is something I have had _many_ people claim, ad nauseum. I'm not exactly certain that what is happening to them is the same thing. I will say that those whom I have taken with me on some of my forays were ill prepared for that space.....so I doubt it is the same. Also, I'm not certain I'd want that sort of thing to happen spontaneously. It sounds a bit like undifferentiated schizophrenia. Ea> Any idea how? Well, in my message I stated that DMT (and several others) are endogenous in the human brain. Perhaps if some of these folks have developed techniques of releasing unique quantities of these particular neuro- transmitters, it could be the same in some cases. I don't believe I've ever heard of any, much less met them. Rose X 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose X Area: Magical Plants To: Loki 30 May 92 08:39:00 Subject: Re: WHAT DOES MAG_PLANTS MEAN UpdReq Lo> Wood rose has seeds that contain a number of LSA amides, mostly Lo> ergine and iso-ergine. They contain a smaller amount of LSD-25. They Lo> are still legal, but they don't sell them at the checkout stand at Lo> K-Mart any more, so you have to look for them. Be careful with em, Lo> they have a strychnine-like alkaloid that can make you sick. If you Lo> soak them in vinegar it will draw the alkaloids to the surface and Lo> leave them as a white powder you can scrape off. If your not Lo> familiar with psychodelics, don't even mess with them. They are Lo> quite strong for something you can still get. I'm not familiar with using a weak acid to draw out the strychnine. Indeed, the concept of "drawing it out" seems somewhat erroneous as that alkaloid is in the white fuzz on the exterior of the seed. It is best removed by sticking the seed on a large needle and rotating it through a flame to singe the fuzz off. Being familiar (in the true sense of the word) with entheogens is not a barrier to the use of HWR seeds. They are quite weak, in my opinion. They also fall into the class of what I call "deliriants". This class can be quite powerful, sometimes overwhelming so, but not illuminating in the least and worthless as a tool. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose X Area: Magical Plants To: Fra.: Apfelmann 30 May 92 08:53:00 Subject: Re: What does MAG_PLANTS mean? UpdReq FA> Please, could you explain a german guy what ist that: "straight" ? "Straight" means ordinary, everyday consensus reality. FA> > , that is not nearly as interesting as seeing Cernunos FA> > during a ritual when I'm straight. You'll see in another post during this session to "Earth Lady" that I doubt seriously the claims of interacting with entities while straight. Sounds like either self-delusion or schizophrenia. It is NOT what we are familiar with while using our tools! :D As I said to EL, the people I know who make these claims, fell apart at VERY low levels of P. cubensis (like 2 gms!), while they traveled with me. BTW, I am going by another name now, but I know you know who I am. My new name relates closely to my old one if you think about it! :D I'll keep you updated on my research in the area of the paper I mailed you and the plants from ..of the jungle I intend to use. I've been in quite close touch with one of my other German brothers; perhaps you know him......he knows of you. Rose X 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose X Area: Magical Plants To: Hendrik Bohm 30 May 92 08:55:00 Subject: Re: What does MAG_PLANTS mean? UpdReq HB> I know this for echo some months; had a fine diskussions with HB> interesting people. But I do have the feeling that this echo is _not_ HB> connected to all qualified people as before... We are still here! It is just that the signal to noise ratio is higher than before. Still, we were all ignorant at one point, so as long as the neophytes are willing to learn I'm willing to educate. Rose X 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718