From: The Storyteller Area: MagickNet To: Macfinn 4 Apr 97 11:14:58 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq M> Lilith is cool. Why/how whould you equate her as M> having an 'evil' (sorry) M> persona? Lilith was 'demonised' for being strong and M> self determined, what M> every woman should aspire to be...not acceptable, so M> Adam needed a mate who M> would be submissive unto him. Lilith in her true light is a wonderful M> woman/being-the protofeminist. M> K> No, She is not. Lilith was never demonized- that concept is a result of K> modern feminist revisionist history. M> M> Actually, the concept of the daemonic 'Lilith' is quite a bit older then M> 'feminist' history. M> There is what is called the Qlippoth, or 'Tree of Death'. This is the 'dark' M> mirror image to the Qabbala Tree of Life. M> Lilith corresponds and dwells on the Qlippoth in the 'Malkuth' sephira and i M> its demon. But again...I see this 'mythos' as stemming from the 'patriarchal M> culture that placed her there. Sure...she may have her 'dark' aspects, but M> then again we -all- do. Light doesn't exist without darkness and we must dwe M> somewhere inbetween. Wise is he that understands both. M> K> You are still associating the term "dark" with K> submission to another Will. This is not the case. M> M> Think 'sell out', one who has sold his (whatever). Have you done so? M> A warlock would most oft times fall into this category, there is no getting M> around it, warlock is a derogetory term just like the 'n' word in the O.J. M> case. M> K> And I think this is an egotistical statement made by K> someone who wants us to believe they are very wise. M> M> Quite honestly, I devoided myself of 'ego' many many years ago, vanity and M> wisdom are not compatable. M> (For those biblical scholars, we now turn to the book of Eccl.) M> You seem to be a very wise and informed person. :) Please, no biblical references! I left the church so I wouldn't have to listen to preaching. Anyway, I'd like to hear more about this. I've heard of the "Tree of Life" in the Kabala, but never the "Tree of Death"...it is an interesting concept... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Storyteller Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 4 Apr 97 11:22:54 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq K>> Frankly, I wear lables like I do hats. If I'm speaking to others into the K>> "Dark" side of things, I'm a Dark Pagan and Demonologist. In other cases K>> I' a Ceremonial Magickian (or Wizard), an Angelologist, a Wiccan Priest, a K>> Discordian, a Goth, a Hebraic Pagan, a History buff, an Enochian scholar K>> and Mage, a practitioner of Egyptian Magick, a practicioner of Babylonian K>> Magick a practitioner of Golden Dawn Magick, a practitioner of Grimoiric K>> Magick, et K>> etc. My, you have more labels than a grocery store! :) Maybe you can help me find some info on some of these other things other than Gardnerian Wicca? That seems to be the only thing out there in print because it is the softest of all the Magick, and it's only Outer Court stuff, so it's extremely weak. I know I have to develop myself magickally first, but once I am ready to move on, I would like there to be some options out there I can actually FIND! :) I'm eclectic and really don't care for this God/Goddess stuff because I see a much larger spectrum of gods/goddesses out there that are wanting to be invoked as well. (I mean, if you were up there in the Astral with nothing to do but watch a woman dressed in moonbeams and a hairy guy with horns getting all the attention, wouldn't you get a bit jealous? ;) ) I would be very happy if I could get some reading material for after my magickal "basic training" is established from the Outer Court of Wicca. Thanks. May the Ultimate One and his sons and daughters, the gods, bless you and keep you. --The Phoenix 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718