From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Blaze 24 Jan 97 13:18:50 Subject: Re: bardic magic UpdReq > Re: Re: bardic magic > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m A person is sick with a fatal illness and all > attempts at modern medicine > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m have failed. All of the witches, pagans, etc. in the > combined areas cast a > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m spell all at once and make the network a giant bubble > or pyramid of energy. > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m A giant Coven so to speak of all types of beliefs and > various spells for > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m healing all centrally concentrated on this one > individual and this one > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m illness and at the approximate same time just as > would be done on a smaller > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m scaled coven of 13 in a ceramony or ritual. What > indeed could the results be. > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m Sincerly, I have NO idea, but am surely curious :) > Thanks for the feedback > [1;32;40m>[0;37;40m in advance. Beats me what happened above but it sucks the BIG one :-) > Actually, something of this nature has been, and is being, done. I saw a > show > a while ago on TLC that discussed the "phenomenon"(sp) of "faith healing" > and > it specifically talked abouta a case, somewhere in the midwest to the > best of > my memory, where a young child was afflicted with a terminal illness and > a > general call for prayers was sent out and they said that there were > christian > prayer circles *and* pagan "prayer groups" praying for this child. As i > remember it they said that soon after the prayers were started the child > began to improve and eventually recovered with no "relapses" C{as of > the > airing of the show. Does that answer your question? Yes it does..... New question.... for all..... Would a friend of mine basically, a fundy type.... but non-the-less a dying woman.... be worth the effort of all pagans good and dark to do what they do to help and possibly save this woman from her affliction? Her husband, a dear friend would never ask and I suspect she would not either but I have seen them go thru some really tough times and it's eating away at not only her but him.... I find this intolarable and abhorrid knowing the power we all have at our mere fingertips. This is a well known disease for which the medical sciences have no known cure. But personally, I feel and know that ALL is possible. What do you think? Peace and happiness. Shabaa Fido: Shabaa @ 1:123/10.1 Pods: Shabaa @ 93:9180/14 BloodNet: Shabaa @ 999:1000/6 Nuit: Shabaa @ 666:777/8 Shabaa@mrzips.netten.net 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Thanatos 24 Jan 97 15:07:06 Subject: Re: bardic magic UpdReq >> Your welcome, also you might want to try finding the Set >> echo, (it WAS/IS? being carried on the Fido and Pods Nets.), >> although pretty much set up for setians, it also deals alot >> with the dark side and black or dark magick from what I'm >> told :-), Working on getting the feed to my board tonight as >> a matter of fact. > Thanks.. I'll look there too. Do you tend towards the "dark" or the "light" or as I, Both!? Shabaa Fido: Shabaa @ 1:123/10.1 Pods: Shabaa @ 93:9180/14 BloodNet: Shabaa @ 999:1000/6 Nuit: Shabaa @ 666:777/8 Shabaa@mrzips.netten.net 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 24 Jan 97 12:55:46 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq > On Jan 19 22:38 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: >>> IF you haven't taken any oath to be broken you are not a warlock. > S> I was not aware that was the ONLY standard by which one could be > considered > S> such.... > In practice, it kind of is. I can see why you're using it to designate > yourself as a "Dark Witch". But, the problem is that that use of the > word is straight from Hollywood, and thus not respected by most > practitioners. Perhaps it works for you, but be prepaired for the > communication problems it will cause on the Nets and in Pagan > communities. So far it does but it DOES lead to the kind of confusion we had, what definition(s) would you propose to correct the misunderstandings? Thanks, > Blessed Be. And to you my friend. Shabaa 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 24 Jan 97 13:06:34 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq > On Jan 19 22:50 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: > S> Not broadly enough I'm afraid.... Finding Wiccans is easy but finding > darker sided ones is nearly impossible.... > Congradulations. You've found one. Hello. ;) Incredible!!! Hello and THANK you for coming out from the shadows!!!! > S> if I could just find that missing "something".... I do get great > pleasure > S> from many things the Wiccan Way offers, but there is something missing > in it > S> or me and I don't know what! > If you are drawn to Dark Symolism, you probably get tired of all the > sweetness and light put forth by most Wiccans you'll meet. But, that is Absolutely! Not that I'm against sweetness... it has it time and place as do ALL things :-) But not ALL the time in ALL situations :-) > not what Wicca is all about. There is both a Crone Goddess, and a Dark > Lord of the Waning Sun- neither of whom are ANYTHING like sweetness and > light. I've even heard rumours that Gardnerian Wicca contains an > Oath-bound Mystery of the Fourth Face of the Goddess- that of the Dark > Moon. You have my undevided attention > S> Yeah and tripping on EVERY single pebble that gets under my feet on > the way! > S> *chortle* > Good. You skin your knees enough to get tough skin. :) Oh BELEAVE me.... I'm a VERY tough piece of meat :-)<> > Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide and keep thee, Let us hope SOMETHING does before I destroy time!<> Shabaa Fido: Shabaa @ 1:123/10.1 Pods: Shabaa @ 93:9180/14 BloodNet: Shabaa @ 999:1000/6 Nuit: Shabaa @ 666:777/8 Shabaa@mrzips.netten.net 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 24 Jan 97 13:10:44 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq > On Jan 20 01:05 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: >>> However, as a point of history, I have once seen an argument that > Warlock >>> MOST anciently meant much the same as Wicce, Magus, Wizard, etc: ie, > a >>> Spiritual and Wise person. It was later given it's bad connotations > much >>> as the word "Witch" was. I am not certain if this is true- but the > argument I >>> saw for it was convincing. I wish I could remember where I saw it... > S> I too have seen it but can't find it either.... I've seen it in print > S> SOMEWHERE.... I'm not truely a Warlock per sey :-) via HIS definition > but I > S> have been learning more towards the darker side of magic.... This > should > S> clear up any mis-understandings... besides, I don't CARE WHAT you call > me... > S> just call me! *chortel* > :) Like I said, if you choose to use the term to descibe yourself, > you'll want to learn how to duck and cover. Hey, some people get off on > that kind of thing. :) You sound either prior service or current or law enforcement of some type!<> I HAVE learned to duck and shuck very well.... >>> M> I would take it as a personal insult if someone called me a > Warlock. >>> I wouldn't. Again- most people using it are just ignorant. What > insults >>> me is their thinking they are partakers of the Mysteries when they are >>> not. I've worked hard for my Path. > S> Belive me... I am working VERY hard for mine.... it has been filled > with MANY forks and turns and I'm sure the rest will as well.... > I don't doubt it. You just seem to be wrestling with labels- which is > understandable. Some say the labels aren't important; and in many > respects they aren't. But, for communication you need them- so you have > to struggle thorugh them to find out what's what. Thank you.... you nailed it..... > The kooks who think their all dark and evil and call themselves Warlocks > come with a particular attitude that you lack. ;) I'll take that as a compliment :-) >>> M> Likewise, Magick is neither black or white, Magick -is-. A 'dark' >>> brother is one who allows his will to be subverted by another person > or organisation; one who is not true to themself. >>> Now with this I TOTALLY disagree. I myself can be considered (in some >>> aspects of my Trad) to be a Dark Pagan. Lilith is one of my Patrons, > for example. I am very much aligned left-handed (so to speak). > Everything has it's "Dark Side", and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with allowing your Will to be subverted. > S> Thanks.... put nicely... > I thought so. :) YOU would! <> Shabaa Fido: Shabaa @ 1:123/10.1 Pods: Shabaa @ 93:9180/14 BloodNet: Shabaa @ 999:1000/6 Nuit: Shabaa @ 666:777/8 Shabaa@mrzips.netten.net 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 27 Jan 97 07:57:10 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq On Jan 24 12:55 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: >> S> I was not aware that was the ONLY standard by which one could be >> considered such.... >> In practice, it kind of is. I can see why you're using it to designate >> yourself as a "Dark Witch". But, the problem is that that use of the >> word is straight from Hollywood, and thus not respected by most >> practitioners. Perhaps it works for you, but be prepaired for the >> communication problems it will cause on the Nets and in Pagan >> communities. S> So far it does but it DOES lead to the kind of confusion we had, what S> definition(s) would you propose to correct the misunderstandings? Most people I know (myself included) don't tend to like labeling ourselves as "Dark" or "Light" at all- since balance is always the true focus. However, it seems for the most part we will call ourselves simply "Dark Pagan" to illustrate the point. I would totally avoid the term "Black" as that indicates a harmful intent- which has nothing to do with Dark. Frankly, I wear lables like I do hats. If I'm speaking to others into the "Dark" side of things, I'm a Dark Pagan and Demonologist. In other cases I'm a Ceremonial Magickian (or Wizard), an Angelologist, a Wiccan Priest, a Discordian, a Goth, a Hebraic Pagan, a History buff, an Enochian scholar and Mage, a practitioner of Egyptian Magick, a practicioner of Babylonian Magick, a practitioner of Golden Dawn Magick, a practitioner of Grimoiric Magick, etc, etc. All of them are true. None of them are all-inclusive. No lable should be. Blessed Be. -The Light which shines in Darkness, yet the Darkness comprehendeth It not. -Rejoice, for behold, all acts of Love and Pleasure are My rituals. Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 27 Jan 97 08:10:48 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq On Jan 24 13:06 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: >> S> Not broadly enough I'm afraid.... Finding Wiccans is easy but finding >> darker sided ones is nearly impossible.... >> Congradulations. You've found one. Hello. ;) S> Incredible!!! Hello and THANK you for coming out from the shadows!!!! You're lucky. I kind of like it in here, so I tend not to come out. :):):) Just kidding. :) >> If you are drawn to Dark Symolism, you probably get tired of all the >> sweetness and light put forth by most Wiccans you'll meet. But, that is S> Absolutely! Not that I'm against sweetness... it has it time and place as do S> ALL things :-) But not ALL the time in ALL situations :-) ;) >> not what Wicca is all about. There is both a Crone Goddess, and a Dark >> Lord of the Waning Sun- neither of whom are ANYTHING like sweetness and >> light. I've even heard rumours that Gardnerian Wicca contains an >> Oath-bound Mystery of the Fourth Face of the Goddess- that of the Dark >> Moon. S> You have my undevided attention Sir. ;) As for the "fourth face"- I'm not Gardnerian, so I can't comment on if it even exists. I will know soon, though (as I will soon be Initiated Gardnerian). >> Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide and keep thee, S> Let us hope SOMETHING does before I destroy time!<> Heh heh heh :) Blessed Be. -The Light which shines in Darkness, yet the Darkness comprehendeth It not. -Rejoice, for behold, all acts of Love and Pleasure are My rituals. Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 27 Jan 97 08:13:48 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq On Jan 24 13:10 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: >> :) Like I said, if you choose to use the term to describe yourself, >> you'll want to learn how to duck and cover. Hey, some people get off on >> that kind of thing. :) S> You sound either prior service or current or law enforcement of some S> type!<> I HAVE learned to duck and shuck very well.... Actually, I was just a nerd in school. Duck and cover was a way of life. :):):) >> respects they aren't. But, for communication you need them- so you have >> to struggle thorugh them to find out what's what. S> Thank you.... you nailed it..... Again? I'm always nailing things- usually to the wall. :) >> The kooks who think their all dark and evil and call themselves Warlocks >> come with a particular attitude that you lack. ;) S> I'll take that as a compliment :-) Maybe...... heh heh heh.... :) Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 30 Jan 97 04:09:10 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq On Jan 28 20:35 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: >> Frankly, I wear lables like I do hats. If I'm speaking to others into >> the "Dark" side of things, I'm a Dark Pagan and Demonologist. In other >> cases I'm a Ceremonial Magickian (or Wizard), an Angelologist, a Wiccan >> Priest, a Discordian, a Goth, a Hebraic Pagan, a History buff, an >> Enochian scholar and Mage, a practitioner of Egyptian Magick, a >> practicioner of Babylonian Magick, a practitioner of Golden Dawn Magick, >> a practitioner of Grimoiric Magick, etc, etc. S> Very accurately put in my opinion (Which{witch} counts for little these S> days<>) Thanks for the suggestions and no, most persons that know me Thanks. And you're Welcome. :) S> actually know that I am not as "bad" or maybe as "good" as I might seem S> here. Hmmmm then again.... hehe Put the cat down! I repeat! Put the cat down! >> All of them are true. None of them are all-inclusive. No lable should >> be. S> I agree VERY seldom can you define ANYTHING mankind has something to do S> with, with a single definition :-) Unless you want to lable about 90% of it as "stupid". :):):) Blessed Be. -The Light which shines in Darkness, yet the Darkness comprehendeth It not. -Rejoice, for behold, all acts of Love and Pleasure are My rituals. Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Guild Master Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 25 Jan 97 07:58:08 Subject: Re: bardic magic UpdReq -=> Raving like a madman, Shabaa screamed to Blaze <=- Sh> Yes it does..... New question.... for all..... Would a friend of mine Sh> basically, a fundy type.... but non-the-less a dying woman.... be Sh> worth the effort of all pagans good and dark to do what they do to help Sh> and possibly save this woman from her affliction? Her husband, a dear Sh> friend would never ask and I suspect she would not either but I have Sh> seen them go thru some really tough times and it's eating away at not Sh> only her but him.... I find this intolarable and abhorrid knowing the Sh> power we all have at our mere fingertips. Sh> This is a well known disease for which the medical sciences have no Sh> known cure. But personally, I feel and know that ALL is possible. Sh> Sh> What do you think? Hi. Just wanted to let you know about my feelings on this. I had a friend who is a christian preacher. He doesn't believe in pagan aspects being in the christian religion, but he knows that he doesn't want to debate with me on the topic either (an agreement we have seeing that he lost a basic debate to me and we didn't even approach the facts much.) (*grin*) He was in an accident at work about 2-3 weeks ago at work. He was driving a tug (a tractor type thing used at airports to haul baggagge carts. (there are 2 types we use, the 50 and the 2600 (50 being usually faster and always bigger) and he was on a 2600. He is about 6'5 and about 300+ pounds. This is important since he is bigger than the seat on his tug. He was plowed into by a 50 going full speed (somewhere between 10-30 mph) into the side, and took the full force of the hit in his thigh before it hit his tug and tilted it at a 45 degree on 2 tires, and then his tug fell back to 4 tires down. I aided him in the healing, but did so in the only way I knew of that would not violate my morals. I didn't have his phone # and didn't ask him if he wanted help. I sent the healing energies to his home, and left it at that. I found out when he returned (7 days later) that he had remarkable healing progress when I had sent the energy. I let him accept it if he was willing, but if he didn't want it, he could refuse to take it. Either way, not an attack or forcing my will on him. I made the energy available, but didn't force it on him. If you have permission, then send it directly to him, but don't force it on them without permission. My opinions, take them as they are worth. (*grin*) The Guild Master ttyl ... I'm not posting off topic, I'm expanding the conversation. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: The Guild Master Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 25 Jan 97 08:14:10 Subject: Re: worlock? UpdReq -=> Raving like a madman, Shabaa screamed to Khephera <=- >>> IF you haven't taken any oath to be broken you are not a warlock. > S> I was not aware that was the ONLY standard by which one could be > S> considered such.... Well, you might want to check into definitions used in circles before you use derogatory terms. (*grin*) You will avoid alot of problems. > In practice, it kind of is. I can see why you're using it to designate > yourself as a "Dark Witch". But, the problem is that that use of the > word is straight from Hollywood, and thus not respected by most > practitioners. Perhaps it works for you, but be prepaired for the > communication problems it will cause on the Nets and in Pagan > communities. Sh> Sh> So far it does but it DOES lead to the kind of confusion we had, what Sh> definition(s) would you propose to correct the misunderstandings? Well, Light and Dark is the same as White and Black distinctions. Magic is neutral, and is neither light or dark. The only things that distinguish the "color" is the intent with the mage. This even gets hazy, as a mage can do horrible things for a good purpose. If a man kills another man that is considered bad. If he kills him with no remorese, that is worse. If that same situation comes up and the dead man was threatening a loved one of the killer, that comes up looking alot different. Either way, a man is dead and the killer is not sorry. If he used magic for this, what color is it? Black (death) or white (Protective for loved one)? My idea, get a list of commonly used terms and look at them. (*grin*) easiest way to avoid problems is to speak the same language. The Guild Master ttyl ... Nice DM... Good DM... Set down the Outerplanes Monster Manual. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: The Guild Master 30 Jan 97 11:13:14 Subject: Re: worlock? UpdReq > -=> Raving like a madman, Shabaa screamed to Khephera <=- >>>> IF you haven't taken any oath to be broken you are not a warlock. >> S> I was not aware that was the ONLY standard by which one could be >> S> considered such.... > Well, you might want to check into definitions used in circles before > you use derogatory terms. (*grin*) You will avoid alot of problems. hehehe.... >> In practice, it kind of is. I can see why you're using it to > designate >> yourself as a "Dark Witch". But, the problem is that that use of the >> word is straight from Hollywood, and thus not respected by most >> practitioners. Perhaps it works for you, but be prepaired for the >> communication problems it will cause on the Nets and in Pagan >> communities. > Sh> > Sh> So far it does but it DOES lead to the kind of confusion we had, > what > Sh> definition(s) would you propose to correct the misunderstandings? > Well, Light and Dark is the same as White and Black distinctions. Magic > is > neutral, and is neither light or dark. The only things that distinguish > the > "color" is the intent with the mage. This even gets hazy, as a mage can > do > horrible things for a good purpose. If a man kills another man that is > considered bad. If he kills him with no remorese, that is worse. If that > same > situation comes up and the dead man was threatening a loved one of the > killer, > that comes up looking alot different. Either way, a man is dead and the > killer > is not sorry. If he used magic for this, what color is it? Black (death) > or > white (Protective for loved one)? What does the Karma of the killer feel? Only IT can show intent :-) > My idea, get a list of commonly used terms and look at them. (*grin*) > easiest > way to avoid problems is to speak the same language. Hahaha sooooo true, one of the drawbacks to solitairism :-) Abreq ad Hbra Shab 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 30 Jan 97 23:04:10 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq > On Jan 28 20:35 97, Shabaa of 93:9180/14 wrote: >>> Frankly, I wear lables like I do hats. If I'm speaking to others into >>> the "Dark" side of things, I'm a Dark Pagan and Demonologist. In > other >>> cases I'm a Ceremonial Magickian (or Wizard), an Angelologist, a > Wiccan >>> Priest, a Discordian, a Goth, a Hebraic Pagan, a History buff, an >>> Enochian scholar and Mage, a practitioner of Egyptian Magick, a >>> practicioner of Babylonian Magick, a practitioner of Golden Dawn > Magick, >>> a practitioner of Grimoiric Magick, etc, etc. > S> Very accurately put in my opinion (Which{witch} counts for little > these > S> days<>) Thanks for the suggestions and no, most persons that know > me > Thanks. And you're Welcome. :) No prob > S> actually know that I am not as "bad" or maybe as "good" as I might > seem > S> here. Hmmmm then again.... hehe > Put the cat down! I repeat! Put the cat down! Jesibell in hell! hehehe >>> All of them are true. None of them are all-inclusive. No lable > should >>> be. > S> I agree VERY seldom can you define ANYTHING mankind has something to > do > S> with, with a single definition :-) > Unless you want to lable about 90% of it as "stupid". :):):) THANK you!!!!!!!!!! > Blessed Be. And you :-) > -Rejoice, for behold, all acts of Love and Pleasure are My rituals. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "I can do it in a church" "I can do it anytime, any place" "I can do it like and angel to quite down your rage" -POE Ditto (Now) Abreq ad Hbra Shab 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kandilokai Ach Ishte Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 25 Jan 97 02:40:00 Subject: Worlock? UpdReq S=>> Since there are quite a few Wiccan trads, some of which explore the S=>> darker side of Wicca, you might be able to find some that mesh well with S=>> your own desires. How broadly have you looked? It is more likely from S=>> my experience that others with similar tendencies will be found as S=>> solitaries, though (otherwise I might be able to point you to such a S=>> trad -- but I don't have any contacts of that sort at this time). S=>Not broadly enough I'm afraid.... Finding Wiccans is easy but finding darker S=>sided ones is nearly impossible.... I do NOT prefer Satanism at this time. S=>And the NA culture really has no place for me either :-) Solitaire seems my S=>ONLY approach at this time although I have a few Wiccan friends who I confid S=>in when I feel the need for outside guidance in my search for a correct path S=>for me as far as Wiccan beliefs. Now if I could just find that missing S=>"something".... I do get great pleasure from many things the Wiccan Way S=>offers, but there is something missing in it or me and I don't know what! I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks, and a seed of curiosity has by now sprouted into a giant banyan tree. I'm sure I'm not the only one... Would you care to share some of what you believe? I myself tend to be a sort of balance monger, as it were, but I find that most people who I've spoken with who "Walk on the Dark Side of the Force" aren't as bad as some faiths would have all others believe. Nor do I generally find them out of balance with the nature of things in general. I'm curious to know where you fit into the puzzle. S=>> May you live long and prosper. S=>And so to you Jim, oh! sorry S=>Seriously may you as well Balanone. um... I think the correct response was, "Peach and Long life". No! No! That wasn't it! Iradi! Kandilokai Ach Ishte --- * OLXWin 1.00b * He broke her heart. She broke his arm. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Kandilokai Ach Ishte 4 Feb 97 22:11:04 Subject: Solitaries? Darker Side of Wicca? Satanism? Setian?UpdReq > S=>> Since there are quite a few Wiccan trads, some of which explore the > S=>> darker side of Wicca, you might be able to find some that mesh well > with > S=>> your own desires. How broadly have you looked? It is more likely > from > S=>> my experience that others with similar tendencies will be found as > S=>> solitaries, though (otherwise I might be able to point you to such a > S=>> trad -- but I don't have any contacts of that sort at this time). > S=>Not broadly enough I'm afraid.... Finding Wiccans is easy but finding > darker > S=>sided ones is nearly impossible.... I do NOT prefer Satanism at this > time. > S=>And the NA culture really has no place for me either :-) Solitaire > seems my > S=>ONLY approach at this time although I have a few Wiccan friends who I > confid > S=>in when I feel the need for outside guidance in my search for a > correct path > S=>for me as far as Wiccan beliefs. Now if I could just find that missing > S=>"something".... I do get great pleasure from many things the Wiccan > Way > S=>offers, but there is something missing in it or me and I don't know > what! > I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks, and a seed of > curiosity has by now sprouted into a giant banyan tree. I'm sure I'm not > the only one... Would you care to share some of what you believe? I I believe in good and evil, dark and light, and being Libra, in grey. I believe in deities and the power available to the human soul. > myself tend to be a sort of balance monger, as it were, but I find that > most people who I've spoken with who "Walk on the Dark Side of the Force" > aren't as bad as some faiths would have all others believe. I believe in using magick light OR dark to promote my growth and to protect myself and others (who could not protect themselves) from harm for example. And just WHAT was that tree remark above?(as he points his lighting bolt)<> > Nor do I generally find them out of balance with the nature of things in > general. I'm curious to know where you fit into the puzzle. I'm not sure at this point WHERE I *fit*, that is my whole problem! > S=>> May you live long and prosper. > S=>And so to you Jim, oh! sorry > S=>Seriously may you as well Balanone. > um... I think the correct response was, "Peach and Long life". No! No! > That wasn't it! Hehe Abreq ad Hbra Shab 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 6 Feb 97 22:19:04 Subject: Re: bardic magic UpdReq > skills can help. In fact, one could say that PODnet is Bardic Magick... S> S> I had been pondering something the past few days regarding almost exactly S> what you just stated.... Let me give you a hypothetical situation and get S> some feedback. I don't know if this has ever been tried per se, so I'm S> typing blindly. I'm not even sure this is the area to post this in but here S> goes. S> A person is sick with a fatal illness and all attempts at modern medicine S> have failed. All of the witches, pagans, etc. in the combined areas cast a S> spell all at once and make the network a giant bubble or pyramid of energy. S> A giant Coven so to speak of all types of beliefs and various spells for S> healing all centrally concentrated on this one individual and this one S> illness and at the approximate same time just as would be done on a smaller S> scaled coven of 13 in a ceramony or ritual. What indeed S> could the results be. S> Sincerly, I have NO idea, but am surely curious :) Thanks for the feedback S> in advance. Sorry to take so long to get back to you...life has been busy! I think that one of the dangers of that type of work is control...you wouldn't want to overdo it, right? A working like that would have to be build up to, and a fair bit of experimentation would have to be performed...I doubt there are many people who are competent enough to hand that much energy. But massed healing energy can be effective...if used well. ttyl Farrell 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Farrell McGovern 9 Feb 97 11:36:48 Subject: Re: bardic magic UpdReq >> skills can help. In fact, one could say that PODnet is Bardic Magick... > S> > S> I had been pondering something the past few days regarding almost > exactly > S> what you just stated.... Let me give you a hypothetical situation and > get > S> some feedback. I don't know if this has ever been tried per se, so > I'm > S> typing blindly. I'm not even sure this is the area to post this in > but here > S> goes. > S> A person is sick with a fatal illness and all attempts at modern > medicine > S> have failed. All of the witches, pagans, etc. in the combined areas > cast a > S> spell all at once and make the network a giant bubble or pyramid of > energy. > S> A giant Coven so to speak of all types of beliefs and various spells > for > S> healing all centrally concentrated on this one individual and this > one > S> illness and at the approximate same time just as would be done on a > smaller > S> scaled coven of 13 in a ceramony or ritual. What indeed > S> could the results be. > S> Sincerly, I have NO idea, but am surely curious :) Thanks for the > feedback > S> in advance. > Sorry to take so long to get back to you...life has been busy! No problem we all have lives to live!<> > I think that one of the dangers of that type of work is > control...you wouldn't want to overdo it, right? A working like that > would have to be build up to, and a fair bit of experimentation would > have to be performed...I doubt there are many people who are competent > enough to hand that much energy. I have thought about this and as long as each witch controlled "their" part of the spell, I see no reason why that would be a problem > But massed healing energy can be effective...if used well. I concur :-) Abreq ad Hbra Shab 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: All 10 Feb 97 00:00:52 Subject: PODCON: The Gathering UpdReq Greetings: For over a decade now, first on Magicknet, then PODnet, many of us have been conversing, exchanging ideas, and yes, sometimes even fighting...but through that all we have slowly been building a community throughout our little portion of Cyberspace. We've helped people get over death, near death, financial crisis's, and a great variety of other crisis...and we have celebrated friend's great joys, births, joinings, and generally getting their lives togther. Many virtual hugs of comfort and joy have been exchanged over the years. But in all of this, we have missed one thing: Meeting each other face to face to make those hugs actual rather than virtual. A few of us would like to change that, and we are looking for some people to help us with that. We have started a new echo called PODCON Planning, echotag "podcon_planning". It is available from 93:9000/0 and myself (93:9610/0) right now. Moderator is myself. A few inital details about this initiative: - We are aiming, very tentativly, at the holding it the weekend before, or the weekend after the World Science Fiction Convention in San Antonio, Texax this year. - Location, again very tenativly, is somewhere in the Austin Area. - There is a strong push to have it in the format of a camping festival, and a weeker push to have it in a hotel in a convention format, ala a Science Fiction convention. (late news...we might have found a site that gives us both!) So, if you feel you can give us a hand in anyway, shape or form, please pick up ask your Sysop this echo, and jump in once you are connected! Thank you very much for you time. ttyl Farrell ai474@freenet.carleton.ca 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: MacFinn Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 20 Jan 97 13:24:00 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq K> Now with this I TOTALLY disagree. I myself can be K> considered (in some aspects of my Trad) to be a Dark K> Pagan. Lilith is one of my Patrons, for example. I am K> very much aligned left-handed (so to speak). Everything K> has it's "Dark Side", and it doesn't necessarily have K> anything to do with allowing your Will to be subverted. K> Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide and keep thee, Lilith is cool. Why/how whould you equate her as having an 'evil' (sorry) persona? Lilith was 'demonised' for being strong and self determined, what every woman should aspire to be...not acceptable, so Adam needed a mate who would be submissive unto him. Lilith in her true light is a wonderful woman/being-the protofeminist. And likewise, Ha Satan himself; not so bad...the first mention of him is in the oldest book of the OT, which is the Book of Job. Within Job, he is not some crazed power hungry monster as he is made out to be; nor is is a 'fallen' angel. As we see in Job, he and his god are on quite good terms, they are conversational and the tone is not 'evil', and in fact he is there with the other 'divine beings' before the throne of his god, not an outcast into a firey pit or whatever. The original Ha Satan has a role to play in the course of human destiny and does the will of his god. Granted, he screwed Job up; but this was at the direction and will of his god. Again, a dark brother is one who's will is subverted; ie, one who is dominated by another being, force, power, person or organisation. The stereotypical 'satanic pacts' with the devil, these would fall into this category: the person makes a 'pact' or deal with an entity (irregardless of the name of the entity) in which he serves the will of the entity. Most Christians for example have cut such deals with their god, they are 'dark brothers' as their will is that of another. And yes, there is absolute light and absolute darkness; but within the mundane world either/or never, if ever, really exsist. At best, everything is shades of grey. Magick -is-; on our plane, is niether black nor white, it -is-. Granted, the outcomes of magick can be either bane or blessing; and even then, in the long run none of us can predict the full outcome and full set of implications one simple act of magick may have. At best, we do what we can with the desired intent of outcome looking ahead as far as we can into the future...yet never can all factors be considered, we begin and end at card 0 and hope we don't draw the 9 or 10 of swords for ourselves. My brother, I've the feeling you are not as -dark- as you would like us to believe. 93 =M= 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: MacFinn 15 Feb 97 18:37:40 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq On Jan 20 13:24 97, MacFinn of 93:9040/20 wrote: K>> Now with this I TOTALLY disagree. I myself can be considered (in some K>> aspects of my Trad) to be a Dark Pagan. Lilith is one of my Patrons, for K>> example. I am very much aligned left-handed (so to speak). Everything K>> has it's "Dark Side", and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with K>> allowing your Will to be subverted. Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide K>> and keep thee, M> Lilith is cool. Why/how whould you equate her as having an 'evil' (sorry) M> persona? Lilith was 'demonised' for being strong and self determined, what M> every woman should aspire to be...not acceptable, so Adam needed a mate who M> would be submissive unto him. Lilith in her true light is a wonderful M> woman/being-the protofeminist. No, She is not. Lilith was never demonized- that concept is a result of modern feminist revisionist history. Lilith was originally a Demoness who slew innocent babies and mothers in child-birth. It was the Hebrews (usually blamed for "demonizing" Her) who elevated Her to Goddess status (as the Dark Wife of God- an explanation for the woes of the world). Once Lilith made it to Goddess status, it broadened Her Existance so that She could no longer be so easily defined as a Demoness. Now She is simply a Dark Goddess- with all the penalties and benefits of being such a Goddess. Lilith was never a Goddess such as Merlin Stone would have us believe (nor all the authors who cite Stone as a source), and She was never a Goddess in Sumeria. M> And likewise, Ha Satan himself; not so M> bad...the first mention of him is in the oldest book of the OT, which is the M> Book of Job. Actually, Genesis II (being of Sumerian origin) is probably the oldest... ;) M> Within Job, he is not some crazed power hungry monster as he is M> made out to be; nor is is a 'fallen' angel. As we see in Job, he and his god There were no fallen Angels at all in Hebrew Mythos- except for the Watchers. But they were simply Angels who screwed up, and were not Rebel Angels. The office of Satan was given to any Angel that God sent forth to punish mankind, or who accused us of crimes. M> are on quite good terms, they are conversational and the tone is not 'evil', M> and in fact he is there with the other 'divine beings' before the throne of M> his god, not an outcast into a firey pit or whatever. The original Ha Satan Exactly. The concept comes from Babylon- and haSatan is basically a prosecuting attorney. M> his god. Again, a dark brother is one who's will is subverted; ie, one who is M> dominated by another being, force, power, person or organisation. The M> stereotypical 'satanic pacts' with the devil, these would fall into this M> category: the person makes a 'pact' or deal with an entity (irregardless of M> the name of the entity) in which he serves the will of the entity. Most M> Christians for example have cut such deals with their god, they are 'dark M> brothers' as their will is that of another. You are still associating the term "dark" with submission to another Will. This is not the case. An attempt to say "The Dark Gods are really just misunderstood because of bad press" is, in my opinion, a cop out. It is a product of the current "White Light" frenzy to prove that Life can exist with all sweetness and light and that the Dark Forces are not only not needed, but don't really exist. I disagree. M> And yes, there is absolute light and absolute darkness; but within the M> mundane world either/or never, if ever, really exsist. At best, everything They can not. The grey areas in between is what Reality is. M> is shades of grey. Magick -is-; on our plane, is niether black nor white, it I didn't say "black", I said "Dark". Big difference. M> My brother, I've the feeling you are not as -dark- as you would like us to M> believe. And I think this is an egotistical statement made by someone who wants us to believe they are very wise. I, on the other hand, would never say such things about someone who I can't even see face to face. For all you know, I'm an ax-murderer. Blessed Be. -The Light which shines in Darkness, yet the Darkness comprehendeth It not. -Rejoice, for behold, all acts of Love and Pleasure are My rituals. Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kandilokai Ach Ishte Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 11 Feb 97 22:46:00 Subject: Solitaries? Darker Side o UpdReq S=>> I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks, and a seed of S=>> curiosity has by now sprouted into a giant banyan tree. I'm sure I'm not S=>> the only one... Would you care to share some of what you believe? I S=>I believe in good and evil, dark and light, and being Libra, in grey. S=>I believe in deities and the power available to the human soul. One must believe in good to believe in evil. Without good as a counterbalance, one could have no judgement of that which is evil, methinks.. Same with light and dark... As for grey, yes, I believe that there are varying shades between the two sides. (There are things that are heavy and things that are light, but some things are heavier that others.. i.e. compared to a bowling ball, a basketball is light, but when you compare the basketball to beach ball, it is the basketball that is heavy. Is this not so?) S=>> myself tend to be a sort of balance monger, as it were, but I find that S=>> most people who I've spoken with who "Walk on the Dark Side of the Force" S=>> aren't as bad as some faiths would have all others believe. S=>I believe in using magick light OR dark to promote my growth and to protect S=>myself and others (who could not protect themselves) from harm for example. What would you define as dark magick? As compared to light magick? I tend to think of light magick as works that are defensive or benign in nature such as sight, and healing, and shielding, and so on. (kind of like stepping out of the way of a blow before a guy hits you, putting a bandaid on a scrape that you got building a wall to protect your innocent ones.) Dark majick I would tend to define as more offensive types of works, such as binding, purging, striking. > general. I'm curious to know where you fit into the puzzle. S=>I'm not sure at this point WHERE I *fit*, that is my whole problem! It sounds to me, from what you tell me... (Perhaps I read too much into your comment about protecting yourself and those who cannot protect themselves, but even promoting your own growth points to this) that you are not so much as dark practitioner as you may think. It sounds to me as if you feel the warrior path beneath your feet. If this is so, you must come to understand the way of the warrior, and what our place is in the way of things. A warrior must protect his charges, so that they do not have to fight that which would harm them and keep them from their own important pursuits. Without innocent ones to protect, a warrior has no purpose. (By innocent I do not necessarily mean, btw, innocent of magick, or innocent of the world, but innocent of the warriors way, and the battles the warrior will fight.) Without such innocents as healers, the warrior cannot stay fit for battle. Without such innocents as seers, the warrior cannot well know where the battle is, and how best to fight it. Often the warrior is misunderstood, and seen as a brute, who knows nothing except how to fight. Remember this. Without the Warrior, there would be no people, but without people there would be no reason for the Warrior. Iradi! Kandilokai Ach Ishte "Warrior of the East" --- * OLXWin 1.00b * Awright! Who double parked their dragon?! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shabaa Area: MagickNet To: Kandilokai Ach Ishte 19 Feb 97 00:24:48 Subject: Re: Solitaries? Darker Side o UpdReq > S=>> I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks, and a seed of > S=>> curiosity has by now sprouted into a giant banyan tree. I'm sure > I'm not > S=>> the only one... Would you care to share some of what you > believe? I > S=>I believe in good and evil, dark and light, and being Libra, in grey. > S=>I believe in deities and the power available to the human soul. > One must believe in good to believe in evil. Without good as a > counterbalance, one could have no judgement of that which is evil, > methinks.. Same with light and dark... As for grey, yes, I believe that > there are varying shades between the two sides. (There are things that > are heavy and things that are light, but some things are heavier that > others.. i.e. compared to a bowling ball, a basketball is light, but > when you compare the basketball to beach ball, it is the basketball that > is heavy. Is this not so?) So basically above you agreed....Correct?<> > S=>> myself tend to be a sort of balance monger, as it were, but I find > that > S=>> most people who I've spoken with who "Walk on the Dark Side of the > Force" > S=>> aren't as bad as some faiths would have all others believe. > S=>I believe in using magick light OR dark to promote my growth and to > protect > S=>myself and others (who could not protect themselves) from harm for > example. > What would you define as dark magick? As compared to light magick? I > tend to think of light magick as works that are defensive or benign in > nature such as sight, and healing, and shielding, and so on. (kind of > like stepping out of the way of a blow before a guy hits you, putting a > bandaid on a scrape that you got building a wall to protect your innocent > ones.) Dark majick I would tend to define as more offensive types of > works, such as binding, purging, striking. who is trying to hit you before he can hit you, or blocking his punch and > then hitting back, or drawing your sword and chasing him away to protect > your innocent ones. I use whatever is neccesary at the time to achieve the end goal whether it be passive(light) or active forceful(dark). > S=>> general. I'm curious to know where you fit into the puzzle. > S=>I'm not sure at this point WHERE I *fit*, that is my whole problem! > It sounds to me, from what you tell me... (Perhaps I read too much into > your comment about protecting yourself and those who cannot protect > themselves, but even promoting your own growth points to this) that you > are not so much as dark practitioner as you may think. It sounds to me I think you did not have all the info you needed to make an assessment, but you may have enough now to reconsider a bit.... I have given you more to work with, you asked the right question IMHO! > as if you feel the warrior path beneath your feet. If this is so, you > must come to understand the way of the warrior, and what our place is in > the way of things. A warrior must protect his charges, so that they do > not have to fight that which would harm them and keep them from their own > important pursuits. Without innocent ones to protect, a warrior has no > purpose. (By innocent I do not necessarily mean, btw, innocent of > magick, or innocent of the world, but innocent of the warriors way, and > the battles the warrior will fight.) Without such innocents as healers, > the warrior cannot stay fit for battle. Without such innocents as seers, > the warrior cannot well know where the battle is, and how best to fight > it. Often the warrior is misunderstood, and seen as a brute, who knows > nothing except how to fight. Remember this. Without the Warrior, there > would be no people, but without people there would be no reason for the > Warrior. Agreement in complete! Abreq ad Hbra Shab 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Kandilokai Ach Ishte 19 Feb 97 05:31:10 Subject: Solitaries? Darker Side o UpdReq On Feb 11 22:46 97, Kandilokai Ach Ishte of 93:9740/2 wrote: KAI> Dark majick I would tend to define as more offensive types of works, such KAI> as binding, purging, striking. trying to hit you before he can hit you, or blocking his punch and then KAI> hitting back, or drawing your sword and chasing him away to protect your KAI> innocent ones. There is also the Darker aspects of High Magick- where you face the Shadows of Existance and bond with, bind, or defeat them. The "Goetia" is partly about facing the Shadows, the "Sacred Magick of Abramelin the Mage" ends with a binding of the Evil Forces (and then uses Demons in it's regular Magickal practice), etc, etc. KAI> battles the warrior will fight.) Without such innocents as healers, the KAI> warrior cannot stay fit for battle. Without such innocents as seers, the KAI> warrior cannot well know where the battle is, and how best to fight it. KAI> Often the warrior is misunderstood, and seen as a brute, who knows nothing KAI> except how to fight. What about the Warrior who knows how to do all of the above? The Eastern Fighting Styles stress just this concept. KAI> Remember this. Without the Warrior, there would be KAI> no people, but without people there would be no reason for the Warrior. Who, in your opinion, is the Warrior Mage protecting? Must he be a Demon Hunter and exorcist? Or do you see Higher purposes? Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: MacFinn Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 18 Feb 97 16:50:36 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq M> Lilith is cool. Why/how whould you equate her as M> having an 'evil' (sorry) M> persona? Lilith was 'demonised' for being strong and M> self determined, what M> every woman should aspire to be...not acceptable, so M> Adam needed a mate who M> would be submissive unto him. Lilith in her true light is a wonderful M> woman/being-the protofeminist. K> No, She is not. Lilith was never demonized- that concept is a result of K> modern feminist revisionist history. Actually, the concept of the daemonic 'Lilith' is quite a bit older then 'feminist' history. There is what is called the Qlippoth, or 'Tree of Death'. This is the 'dark' mirror image to the Qabbala Tree of Life. Lilith corresponds and dwells on the Qlippoth in the 'Malkuth' sephira and is its demon. But again...I see this 'mythos' as stemming from the 'patriarchal' culture that placed her there. Sure...she may have her 'dark' aspects, but then again we -all- do. Light doesn't exist without darkness and we must dwell somewhere inbetween. Wise is he that understands both. K> You are still associating the term "dark" with K> submission to another Will. This is not the case. Think 'sell out', one who has sold his (whatever). Have you done so? A warlock would most oft times fall into this category, there is no getting around it, warlock is a derogetory term just like the 'n' word in the O.J. case. K> And I think this is an egotistical statement made by K> someone who wants us to believe they are very wise. Quite honestly, I devoided myself of 'ego' many many years ago, vanity and wisdom are not compatable. (For those biblical scholars, we now turn to the book of Eccl.) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rain Area: MagickNet To: Shabaa 27 Jan 97 19:34:22 Subject: healing UpdReq SH->Yes it does..... New question.... for all..... Would a friend of mine SH->basically, a fundy type.... but non-the-less a dying woman.... be worth th SH->effort of all pagans good and dark to do what they do to help and possibly SH->save this woman from her affliction? Her husband, a dear friend would neve My own answers: Would she be worth it? Of course; everyone is. Would she permit it? You didn't say, only that she wouldn't ask. Knowing what her own beliefs are, should you do it without asking, or if she says no? No. People have a right to refuse help from sources they disapprove of, even if it frustrates those who care about them. Your mileage may vary. --- OLX 2.1 TD And so God said "E=/mv2+2P/r" and there was popcorn 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Samhain Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 29 Jan 97 04:29:42 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq K> Frankly, I wear lables like I do hats. If I'm speaking to others into the K> "Dark" side of things, I'm a Dark Pagan and Demonologist. In other cases I' K> a Ceremonial Magickian (or Wizard), an Angelologist, a Wiccan Priest, a K> Discordian, a Goth, a Hebraic Pagan, a History buff, an Enochian scholar and K> Mage, a practitioner of Egyptian Magick, a practicioner of Babylonian Magick K> a practitioner of Golden Dawn Magick, a practitioner of Grimoiric Magick, et K> etc. a goth? what does an early 1980's british counterculture started by bauhaus, the misfits, and joy division have to do with magick? ************** K> 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: MacFinn 20 Feb 97 07:25:28 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq On Feb 18 16:50 97, MacFinn of 93:9040/20 wrote: M>> Lilith is cool. Why/how whould you equate her as having an 'evil' (sorry) M>> persona? Lilith was 'demonised' for being strong and self determined, what M>> every woman should aspire to be...not acceptable, so Adam needed a mate who M>> would be submissive unto him. Lilith in her true light is a wonderful M>> woman/being-the protofeminist. K>> No, She is not. Lilith was never demonized- that concept is a result of K>> modern feminist revisionist history. M> Actually, the concept of the daemonic 'Lilith' is quite a bit older then M> 'feminist' history. Yes. That was my point. I was saying that the concept that Lilith was once good and then demonized is only a modern concept- written by authors with agendas of their own. M> There is what is called the Qlippoth, or 'Tree of Death'. This is the 'dark' M> mirror image to the Qabbala Tree of Life. Yes... M> Lilith corresponds and dwells on the Qlippoth in the 'Malkuth' sephira and M> is its demon. Actually, to nit-pick: Lilith in Malkuth isn't a Demon, but a Demonic Order (the Hebrew word "Lilith" is actually plural). Lilith as a singular demon is in Yesod. M> But again...I see this 'mythos' as stemming from the M> 'patriarchal' culture that placed her there. The patriarchal culture did not place Her there. Lilith is a combination of the Babylonian "Ardat Lili" (Succubuss) and the Demoness Lamashtu- who stole babies from their mothers. Lilith was a lowly Demoness from the start, and She does not date to Sumeria at all. M> Sure...she may have her 'dark' aspects, but then again we -all- do. Light M> doesn't exist without darkness and we must dwell somewhere inbetween. Wise M> is he that understands both. Those are wise enough words. But they do not bear on the factual history of Lilith. K>> You are still associating the term "dark" with submission to another Will. K>> This is not the case. M> Think 'sell out', one who has sold his (whatever). Have you done so? Not at all. M> A warlock would most oft times fall into this category, there is no getting M> around it, warlock is a derogetory term just like the 'n' word in the O.J. M> case. Yes, and I have never termed myself "Warlock". However, there are very Dark aspects to my practice. For instance- much of what I have told you above draws from my extensive knowledge of Demonology. That aspect of my study and practice is Dark just as much as my study of Angelology is Light (usually). Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Samhain 23 Feb 97 12:02:38 Subject: Re: Worlock? UpdReq On Jan 29 04:29 97, Samhain of 93:9187/1 wrote: K>> Frankly, I wear lables like I do hats. If I'm speaking to others into the K>> "Dark" side of things, I'm a Dark Pagan and Demonologist. In other cases K>> I' a Ceremonial Magickian (or Wizard), an Angelologist, a Wiccan Priest, a K>> Discordian, a Goth, a Hebraic Pagan, a History buff, an Enochian scholar K>> and Mage, a practitioner of Egyptian Magick, a practicioner of Babylonian K>> Magick a practitioner of Golden Dawn Magick, a practitioner of Grimoiric K>> Magick, et K>> etc. S> a goth? what does an early 1980's british counterculture started by bauhaus, S> the misfits, and joy division have to do with magick? It has nothing to do with Magick- it is one of the lables that applies to me. Blessed Be, may The Lord and Lady guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718