From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 14 Nov 96 17:34:06 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq On Nov 12 14:15 96, Josh Norton of 93:9400/0 wrote: JN> -=> Quoting Khephera to Josh Norton <=- Kh>> Cool. I'd also LOVE To see that FAQ. JN> It's rather long -- about 27k so far, and only half done. Perhaps a bit too JN> long for PODnet distribution. I understand. I'll have to hunt it down on the I-net when I get the chance. JN> I'm trying to extract the salient details from _Mysteriorum Libri Quinti_ JN> and _A True and Faithful Relation_ and organize them so that people can JN> have a basis for cutting through all the irrelevancies in the original JN> diaries. After I finish that, I'll do a bit on some of the innovations by JN> later magicians. Honestly, this sounds like a hell of a lot more than a FAQ. Are you sure you're not writting a whole book?! :) It sounds great. Kh>> WatchTowers. In fact, the Calls pretty much tell a connected tale, and to Kh>> use them out of order makes little sense to me... JN> The angels definitely said that each Call had its proper Table, which it JN> was intended to open. The problem is figuring out what they meant by JN> "Table" in context; their few specifics don't make much sense. I agree. "Every Call hath it's Key, and every Key openeth it's gate." I've just operated on the assumption that they were all to be used to open ALL the Gates. But then, in your last message you indicated that the Diaries do not even say to use the Calls during the 19 day Ceremony- which I thought you were supposed to do. Kh>> Well, with that I totally agree with you. I am simply going on the idea Kh>> that no indication was given to use the Calls in a fragmented fashion. Kh>> They seem to be a thing unto themselves- as one whole. I personally Kh>> wouldn't be (and havn't been) comfortable with using them in the GD Kh>> style. JN> Hmmm... I would agree that they do seem to tell a continuing "story" of JN> sorts. I see each as representing a stage in a process of creation or JN> manifestation. But I believe the Tablets show that same story, from a JN> different angle, so connecting the two isn't out of line. I agree. Michael told me when I contacted Him that the Calls "open" the WatchTowers from "the other side". Actually, if you think about it, there is an extremely good cause for linking the two- since the Calls culminate in a Call for the Governers (Parts)- which the WatchTowers themselves are formed from. I have a feeling that all but the last Call are intended to relate to the Tablets as interpreted in their ordered fasion- while the last Call itself is meant to refer to the Tablets when interpreted as a confused arrangment of the Governers Names. . Sooner or later I'll perform what I call the "Supreme Opening By WatchTower"- which is just like the GD OBW- except that I replace the "Ol Sonf..." recitation with all the Calls. If I survive it, I'll let you know what happens. ;) JN> There is a copy of a single Logaeth table in _True Relation_ I'm not JN> certain which one it is. The first two Logaeth tables are in Dee's JN> _Mysteriorum Libri Quinti_, which has been published. The remaining 46 or JN> 47 JN> are bound separately as _Liber Logaeth_. No one has published that; I guess JN> they figure there isn't much of a market for a book that is nothing but JN> grids of letters and numbers. I suspect they're right. Yeah, but I'd sure love to see them. Then again, I suppose I can buy a copy of them from the British Museum. JN> Incidentally, almost all of the Logaeth tables were used in the process of JN> dictating the Calls. In fact, the angels often jumped between several JN> tables in giving a single word. If there is a sigillic pattern hidden in JN> each word, it's got to be a mighty complex method of derivation. That I know- and I'd sure love to figure out what it was... Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 15 Nov 96 08:28:20 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq On Nov 13 12:54 96, Josh Norton of 93:9400/0 wrote: JN> [re: Christeos Pir's _Guide to Enochian Pronunciation_] Kh>> Now THIS I'd really love to see. If you (or anyone) gets a Kh>> beat on a source for this, let me know please! :) JN> I believe Baphonet BBS still has a copy in their file areas, and Modem JN> Magick on the west coast. You can also find it on the Web at: JN> http://hpproebster1.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/Personen/rk/txt/pr_calls.txt Cool. I'll check it out. ;) JN> Incidentally, for anyone who might be interested, there is now an internet JN> mailing list for discussion of Enochian magick. It is an open list, and you If I ever do get an Internet connection, you'll probably see me there. Kh>> Now, I get the impression that the main Ritual is 15 days long (19 if you Kh>> add the first four days of prayers), but that you only Summon one Kh>> particular group of Angels with each shot... (as there are at least 32 Kh>> different prayers- as per Geoffrey James- for all the WatchTower Angels). JN> My take is that you are supposed to call upon ALL the angels of all the JN> Tablets, every day of the 15-day period. You needn't use Dee's sort of JN> invocation; the angels indicated that each magician was to make up his own. JN> In fact, it probably wouldn't hurt if you made them up on the spot, as I JN> did; the angels emphasized that it was the _fervency_ of the prayers that JN> was the effective factor, not the form they took. I found that if you rely JN> on fervency instead of verbiage, you can get through all the names in JN> twenty minutes or so. Ah.....I see. This mirrors an earlier comment I made (I think on Fido MAGICK) that this particular ritual seems much like the Abramelin Operation- in that it is a) a one-deal shot meant to get you in touch with Higher Forces, and b) supposedly dangerous to boot. What you say also fits this, as Abramelin often stresses that you shouldn't parrot his prayers, but concentrate on the fervency of the prayers. Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Dragon Area: MagickNet To: Tiki 13 Nov 96 11:03:02 Subject: ancient egypt &.... UpdReq > KK> He, like all other Presidents and political leaders, was a it is said, hitler was given certain "powers" by the dark masters,so he could take over the world....it appears that since clinton all ready has the most power position in this country(physical plane) he now has decided to become the president of the first world government...now called the new world order..considering how and what continues to happen, it makes one wonder who he has "sold his soul to" to achieve the postion of world dictator ???????? YOU ARE DREAMING..WAKE UP !, said the Dragon... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Dragon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 13 Nov 96 10:17:00 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq sorry to pop into your discussion-grin- have you any knowledge of sanskrit.... it is said, each of the letter sounds causes a certain specific "psychic vibration" inside a human when intoned. The eastern teachers create mantras that have specific "functions" that manifest internal "things/events" inside a person who intones them or external "things/events" (from the "seed sounds".) sanskrit is called the true human language of power. it might be interesting to "compare ? " these sounds which are "well known" to the sounds that the system you all are discussing ???? HAVE A HAPPY DREAM !, said the Dragon... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Dragon Area: MagickNet To: The Guild Master 13 Nov 96 10:52:02 Subject: karma UpdReq > Pa> be, and if i or someone else were to cast some real nasty > Pa> spell toward them/him > Pa> would i be justified in that.. or would it be, absolutely wrong.. > Pa> let me know, i need some feedback.. das was heard to say,"beware of what you ask for and beware of what you create !!" "the use of not -fully- understood power and the "laws" that function in the universes leads to "interesting times" for the wielder of the power." "may you live in interesting times was a curse used to punish those who offended the harmony." YOU ARE DREAMING..WAKE UP !, said the Dragon... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Dragon Area: MagickNet To: Ghost 13 Nov 96 10:29:00 Subject: The emmanations UpdReq get onto the "webcrawler" on the internet and do a search for sanskrit documents...this will lead thee to english translations of interesting things-grin- YOU ARE DREAMING..WAKE UP !, said the Dragon... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718