From: Morpheus Shapiro Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 10 Oct 96 09:00:00 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq KK> MS> You wrote before that you were looking for a Book Of Enoch to add KK> to KK> MS> your Grimoir collection. So, I came, I saw, I bought it! KK> Did you get the Ethiopian Book of Enoch? Or one of the KK> others? There are many.... ;) Reads like a great scene: master: Did you get the Camomile? toad : Yes master, just as you wanted. master: Did you get the BLUE camomile? toad : They were out of blue so I got the yellow! master: TWIT! B dat as it May: Is there any translations of Etheopian int english? Sounds like I ought to visit a few Rastafarian bok stores in San Francisco. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Morpheus Shapiro Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 11 Oct 96 17:34:00 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq In the movie, The Addams Family, we see the dour little girl with her hand on a huge electrical switch about to zAp her brother who is strapped into an antique electric chair. He askes her:"Whats the name of this game?" To which Wensday replied,"Its called, 'Is There A God'?" In the case of the Holy Of Holies, Is there a god? Does it need you? Is it you? Does it matter? I think the above is superfulous: Performing the rites is beneficial, god or not: #11 Thirty spokes are made one by a hole in the hub of the wheel By vacancies joining them for a wheel's use; The use of clay in molding pitchers Comes from the hollow of its absence; Doors and windows are used in a house For their emptiness: Thus we are helped by what is not To use what is. Man, is that obscure enough or what? BB MS CUL8R 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Morpheus Shapiro Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 11 Oct 96 17:24:00 Subject: Book Oracles UpdReq KK> MS> You wrote before that you were looking for a Book Of Enoch to add KK> to KK> MS> your Grimoir collection. So, I came, I saw, I bought it! KK> Did you get the Ethiopian Book of Enoch? Or one of the KK> others? There are many.... ;) KK> MS> Yes! It is a book of magic, much pithier than my own Book Of Shadows, KK> and KK> MS> heavy in its uses and in its implications. Since I know how to use a KK> MS> grimoir, like you do, it doesn't bother me if it is written in KK> MS> christianeese, because the Magus and Paraclesus's stuff are also KK> mixed, KK> MS> coded, obscured, and written like a xian fundyschool inspirational KK> track, KK> MS> so TBOE won'yt throw you much. I alsready have found it to be an KK> invaluable KK> MS> oracle. When consmic questions and self revelAtions R needed, I KK> MS> concentrate, merge, And open The Book Of Enoch to a random page. Often KK> the KK> MS> meaning becomes either instant, or delayed, it comes as understanding. KK> Interesting you have connected so well with it. ;) I often use books as oracles. In my seed coven I was raised up to be the oracle in the ceremonies. I spoke for The Goddess and The God in each of their Greater Sabbats, and I spoke for the dead at Samhain. I got started with the books right in the teaching covenstead. When I had some conflict, I would run my hand along the shelves and shelves of inspirational magic and pagan religious books, and when it felt right, pull a book out and open it to a random page. Sometimes I needed to repeat this untill Ihit the right one, but I always kept the books open to the passages that didn't seem 2 fit, and once I got one that 'clicked' with what my original question was, all the passages became meshed, and clear: Some answers need more than one book to explain fully. Its ourselves communicating to the stupid part of us through books. I use the tao Te Ching the same way-open it ot a random thought. It works when I start to dispair over being a solitary. I walked over to the shelve just now and got the Ching down. You mentioned that you wanted to establish an Holy Of Holies so you can tend your god's need. I think that you should pour your energies into helping your family instead of performing unneeded maintainance to a godform thats dooing very well without you, thankyou. After Jose suggested #11 in the Tao Te Ching, I read it and now I change my mind and write to you that its quite ok to have a Holy of Holies, even if it only enshrined a mirror. I'll include it in the next post 2 U. BB (continued...) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rain Area: MagickNet To: Ravenwing 11 Oct 96 23:23:38 Subject: Hauntings and Possessions UpdReq On 10-11-96 Ravenwing wrote to All... R > I have been wondering for a while what the magi (the term I use to R > describe R > anyone who uses magick...hermetic, pagan, or whatever) think of ghosts R > and R > demonic possession...first off, ghosts...What are you more inclined to R > believe they are, elementals or discarnates? I've seen evidence that at least some of them really are dead folks who just don't want to leave wherever it is they are. R > think it is R > actually a demon possessing the person, or perhaps could it be some R > sort of R > reaction to a malevolently minded-magi's spell... ~~~~ Well, the singular would be "mage" or (if the mage is male) "magus". But to answer your question, actual magickal attack of the kind that could cause a possession-like reaction is extremely rare; first off, from what I've seen, most left-hand-pathological types just aren't that well trained. :) Generally, of course, "possession" phenomena come from some sort of mental or severe emotional illness. I think real possession exists, though, both by negative and positive entities. * OFFLINE 1.58 * I *am* the people my mother warned me about. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Dragon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 11 Oct 96 09:28:00 Subject: Magick styles UpdReq > I understand. Now perhaps we're on the same wavelength. ;) one of my early lessons was that the map is not the terratory..... it is a major mistake i observe many make in their seeking/learning.i have few "things" most would call beliefs. i have a document which i wrote fo myself called model-i was educated as an engineer,spent a good part of my life in that mode. little was accepted that was not measurable by "science". engineers make models.(a model explains "how things are/function/work".) once one has progressed/grown a little in a certain way, one's "model" is not how things are, rather how things maybe. its a different "view/mind set". perhaps this will give thee a little bit of understanding of the thought process in this one... HAVE A HAPPY DREAM !, said the Dragon... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rain Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 12 Oct 96 17:19:50 Subject: geeze! UpdReq M> KH>Ha! I like it. ;) This is exactly why I use the term "mundane". That, M> KH>it refers to those people who are all little carbon copies of each other, M> KH>have been taken by the games that society plays with them. ;) M> M> I used "Normal" or "Plastic People" or "Preps"... Depending on M> how old I was and whether or not I was in high school. :) M> M> I started using Mundane, myself, but I do believe I like the M> term "Sleeper" quite enough to start using that. HEh heh heh... Geeze, aren't we succumbing to the temptations of ego a little here, guys? Non-magick-users aren't necessarily asleep, and they certainly aren't all plastic. They simply aren't magick-users. Many are just as spiritually and psychically advanced as any Witch; they simply made different choices aout path and have a different toolkit. If we start talking as if we're some superior class, we're just as bad as the religious imperialists of the Christian Right, no? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rain Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 12 Oct 96 17:22:18 Subject: Re: Pollution UpdReq M> I think the whole mess of suicidal tendencies, whether expressed M> with a shotgun or a relationship in which someone "Loses M> Themself Completely" are all symptomatic of the rising drive M> towards "Union with the Divine" among people who don't know that M> it is possible. *shrug* Just a theory. John Bradshaw, the famous recovery theorist, would agree with you (and so would I). He calls addictions, be they to chemicals or relationships or skirting the edge of death, "a misguided search for transcendence". 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rain Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 12 Oct 96 17:23:38 Subject: Re: Pollution UpdReq M> GH>the decalog is a fine invention for the mindless. M> M> And for whom it was invented. Oh, please...are you calling the entire Judaic people of that era "mindless"? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jade Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 13 Oct 96 19:18:00 Subject: Pollution UpdReq MM> I think the whole mess of suicidal tendencies, MM> whether expressed MM> with a shotgun or a relationship in which someone MM> "Loses MM> Themself Completely" are all symptomatic of the MM> rising drive MM> towards "Union with the Divine" among people who MM> don't know that MM> it is possible. *shrug* Just a theory. Interesting theory. I don't know though. I'm not particulary knowledgable in such things. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718