From: Domino Area: MagickNet To: Magick 28 Sep 96 18:01:14 Subject: Energy and magick.... UpdReq Magick, having seen All during his little streak, remarked: M> My roomie and I have discovered that sometimes after M> working magick we both feel a sort of definite "buzz" to M> us. It is like we somehow have aquired extra energy of a M> metaphysical sort by performing the acts. Have you been grounding afterwards? Abreq ad Hbra Domino ... ... I have never killed anyone at the dinner table. - Kurn ___ TagDude 0.83 [Unregistered] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Magick 29 Sep 96 13:06:22 Subject: Energy and magick.... UpdReq Mag - I think most of us hve experienced the "buzz" - possible explanations... - if a lot of deep breathing and vibration techniques were used, you get an oxygen high. Also if the ritual involved exertion - even if the physical exertion is minimal - there is a release of endorphins similar to the natural high of exercise, running, etc. - sure, it could be mystical energy from the umpteenth plane. Actually, sometimes it is. But it is very easy to mistake the physical or psychological high from doing the work (same as the peak experience in any field of endeavor) with results from without oneself. - speaking of which, the peak experience is widely documented, and often experienced in magical work. Does it differ from the religius experience? A solidly humanist interpretation like Campbell's says no - and without telepathy or some other way to tell the difference between his experience and, say , that of a John Donne (OK, so we need time travel as well as telepathy) or a Dalai Lama, I see no way to resolve the question. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Morpheus Shapiro Area: MagickNet To: Pan 29 Sep 96 09:10:00 Subject: Community UpdReq Script #5517 - MagickNet (PODS) From: Pan i think the reality of this whole theme is that we CREATE, in a very real sense, our universe. why are we here? what for? but, also in creating the / our world, we (becouse)out of love's sake have to mix/ meet with the world of others. ...there's a new possibility in creating a new world with another that just isn't possible alone ( am i talking introversion here?). harming one (or another) dosen't really enter into it.it just seems like a good idea. as does not cutting off one's own toe. and the answer; we each reside in our own set course. our own orbits. we feel pain or evil when we go against NATURE (our nature). each are special and can only be understood by itself, completely.perfect your understanding (know thyself), and aspire unto that perfection.thus helping to create 'the perfect world' - your world more perfectly. Aye Aye Pan! Your post touched my heart, Pan, as your namesake did once before. Without the company of other people in the community, spiritual life is a hard difficult road, in the beginning. Most of the big communes in the USA were destroyed by their emediate neighbors,- because at a certain point in the evolving relatioship, it became apparent that the communers were 'different' and thus a threat to children and not quite human. The authorities desended soon after with all kinds of legal violence reserved for anyone 'different' or who might be getting more and better sex/relationships/spiritual joy. IMO, we are the 'Goddess's Hidden Children.' I am greatful to the Goddess, and to all the people on this net who have made this cybermeetingplace, and keep it going. Blessed Be 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Magick 30 Sep 96 08:25:58 Subject: A small essay.... UpdReq On Sep 24 22:07 96, Magick of 93:9740/2 wrote: K>>Nice essay. It seems that you have a handle on the basic concepts of K>>Magick. K>>However, I have to disagree with your stance on Religion. It's structure K>>does not diminish the ability to perform Magick at all, and can in fact be a K>>boon to the Magickian that others would sadly lack. I'm not saying that K>>Religion is necessary at all- but niether would I go your route and say that K>>it hinders. M> Thanks for the feedback. M> If I recall my own essay correctly, I was writing more about a conflict M> between dogma/organized-religion and magick. I understand, and that is what I was refering to as well. We'd have to define "organized" to make sure we're on the same ground there- but as for Dogma, it can be a wonderful aid to Magickal practice. Dogma allows for a total faith toward the ideas within the Dogma. It allows for a total 100% devotion toward the Forces (Gods) being dealt with. In fact, dealing with Gods at all can be much better than trying to "call on the power within". Once again, though, I do want to point out that I'm not saying that one HAS to have these things at all. I'm just pointing out the benefits. ;) Of course, the danger in the Dogmas comes from having a total Faith and Devotion turn into fanaticism. You start to think your Dogma is the only one in town, and then we have Holy Wars... M> It was also a part from one of my journals, a premise for a personal style. Oh, of course. That is, after all, the most any of us can do. And it is what these Nets are for. ;) My response to your posts are the same. M> Thanks again for replying. I was beginning to think that I was M> invisible. *Smiles* Nope. I can see you. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 30 Sep 96 08:30:56 Subject: A small essay.... UpdReq On Sep 28 05:20 96, Mephisto of 93:9176/0 wrote: KH>>Nice essay. It seems that you have a handle on the basic concepts of KH>>Magick However, I have to disagree with your stance on Religion. It's KH>>structure do not diminish the ability to perform Magick at all, and can in KH>>fact be a boon the Magickian that others would sadly lack. I'm not saying KH>>that Religion is necessary at all- but niether would I go your route and say KH>>that it hinders. M> A sense of the Sacred does tend to focus one's "energies", I've M> always found. Exaclty. The main ingrediant to ANY magick is *FIRST* Emotion. Then that Emotion is directed by the Will. And nothing raises the Emotions like the utter Faith, Love, and Devotion one feels toward a God/dess and the Sacred Ceremonies that appeal to Them. M> Religion is the same as any other tool, however - inability to work without M> it is a liability. On this I pretty much agree as well. Note that, on the Tree of Life, the Sphere of Venus is after that of Mercury. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Ghost 30 Sep 96 08:33:42 Subject: ancient egypt &.... UpdReq On Sep 25 20:25 96, Ghost of 93:9200/15 wrote: >> I bet you were just loved by the neighbors for that one- and the fire >> dept. who I'm sure they called. ;) G> no. nobody seemed to have recognised it. Let me guess: New York? :):):) >> Asherah is the Canaanite Goddess- wife of their Father God El- who was G> the jewish (?) myths get stranger everytime I read something new about G> it.... Not really "Jewish". What we know as "Jewish" didn't come about until around 700 BCE. All that I'm telling you is Ancient Canaanite- with some Ancient Israelite thrown in as well. ;) >> I'd look into some books by A.E Wallis Budge. He covers EVERYTHING you'd >> ever want to know about what we know about Egypt. ;) G> do you have any titles you would recomment on the language? or even an ISBN? G> or place and time of publication? that would do a great deal for me to order G> or lend the books - living in a not-english speaking country. Oh, I can get you started no problem. Respond to this, and it'll be a better time for me to get to the books. ;) >> Ar Rex, etc. means "If Knowledge is Power, then a God am I". G> seems there is not much grammar in the language?! Actually, it's a quote from Jim Carey in "Batman: Forever". I'm somewhat Discordian. :):):) The translation into Egyptian, though, was my idea. But, the Egyptian grammer is not what you are used to. In true Egyptian, it would posssible sound something like: "Power if Knowledge is, God I am one". ;) >> Magickal Motto, and sums up how I see the Universe, as well as being >> something I aspire to. G> only knowledge? what would be the use of gaining knowledge if there is no G> understanding of it and the ability to use it? or was that just something G> you're implying by this? Chill, dude....it's just a Motto. ;):):) Yes, it's all implied. I've come to find some MAJOR things hidden within this phrase. As for "just knowledge", it's really not that at all. Instead, it is the GAINING and APPLICATION of the knowledge- which immediately implies Wisdom along with it. For, if you have Knowledge without Wisdom, then that Knowledge is powerless to you. Thus, If Knowledge is Power, then Wisdom I have. And if a God doesn't imply Wisdom, I don't know what does. ;) >> Especially since "Power" (SeXem) was the Egyptian Word for what we call >> "Holy Guardian Angel" G> that's interesting. they had a 'concept' like this? Most of what we do today (ie, the Western Hermetical Traditions) traces back in some way back to them. Them and the Babylonians. >> Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel is, after all, the >> ultimate goal. ;) G> ultimate? nothing beyond? what would you do with this knowledge then? G> but until then, reaching this goal, I don't think it would make sense to G> think about it, right? Well, there are two ways to look at this. On the one hand, you actually do "Gain Knowledge and Conversation of the HGA" about half-way through the Path, and there are certainly many things beyond that point. However, there is another step higher up where you actually die and allow your HGA to take over your body. You see, the HGA is *you*. It's your Higher Self. When you "Gain...ect", you are linking into your true Self, and thus your True Will. Nothing but good can come from that. And, finally, when you allow your Earthly ego to die and the REAL you take over....that's the big stuff. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 30 Sep 96 08:45:56 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question. UpdReq On Sep 28 05:12 96, Mephisto of 93:9176/0 wrote: KH>>Asherah is the Canaanite Goddess- wife of their Father God El- who was KH>>later adopted by the early Israelites. That's right, folks- Yahweh was KH>>Married! M> You know, the first time I heard that theory, my deeply M> inebriated "Christian" father was giving a somewhat abusive M> sermon on the subject of "God's Wife". His theory on the M> "Unpardonable Sin" of the religion being to somehow insult said M> Good Woman and bring down the Wrath of the Almighty. M> Came out of nowhere for him, but found many little tidbits about M> "God's Wife" afterwards. Amusing. Perhaps he was a Jewish M> Priest in a "former life". Heh heh heh. Oh there are LOTS of examples of God's wife. Asherah is one of the oldest pre-Jewish examples. There is the Hebrew Sheckinah, the Christian Holy Spirit, the Catholic Mother Mary- all of which are the exact same thing. Not to mention such Goddesses as Hockmah, Sabbath, Sophia, Torah, and others. And, for the REAL kicker- even the Demoness Lilith enjoyed the position of God's wife in many Qabalistic Sects of Judaism. It was thier little comentary of how the world was full of terrible things- in spite of a God who loved them. Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Dragon 30 Sep 96 08:49:34 Subject: Magick styles UpdReq On Sep 26 20:10 96, Dragon of 93:9004/1 wrote: >> To perform a Spell, you HAVE to do certain things like: >> Focus on the Goal, Access the correct parts of the Mind, >> Raise Energy, Direct that Energy by the Will, etc. D> -snip= D> what about those who do do believe at all in your "stated" have to's, D> those who just reach out with their power and DO THINGS DIRECTLY ??? Doesn't matter. If you are reaching out with your power and doing something "directly"(?), you are still covering all of my stated "have to's". Don't confuse my statments with something like: "You have to say this, or wear that, or use that particular tool, or follow any book word for word." Read what I said carefully... If all the basics of how to work Magick are covered- then your Magick will work. "How" you cover the basics is of little matter- except to each individual. On the other hand, if those basics are not covered, then the Magick will not work. You can not, I don't care what anyone says, work Magick if you don't raise the Energy needed to work the Magick. You can not work Magick if you don't then direct that energy toward it's goal. You can not even raise that energy in the first place if you don't open up all the right circuits in your brian. Hell, all of that is true even if all your doing is reaching out with your hand to pass the salt to someone across the table... Are you telling me that you can work Magick without doing any of these things? Frankly, I'm completely lost on what you mean by your distinction between "doing things directly" and any other form of Magick... Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Irv Koch 30 Sep 96 08:58:04 Subject: SACRED_MAGICK UpdReq On Sep 26 15:03 96, Irv Koch of 93:9829/0 wrote: K>> As I write, it is Tuesday. The echo will be available on Sunday. K>> I hope to see you guys there! IK> I dare not mess with additional changes in the configs until I move the IK> system to Chattanooga ... NLT this coming Tues. Good luck with all! I'll surely see you in SACRED_MAGICK sooner or later. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kandilokai Ach Ishte Area: MagickNet To: Magick 25 Sep 96 22:58:00 Subject: A small essay.... UpdReq M=> *Laughs* I know what you mean, Ishte. Anyone who has ever tried to study M=>classical philosophy can see that it has all been made a great deal more M=>complicated than it ever needed to be. Much like government, philosophy ofte M=>tries to use many words to cover little territory. Much like politics, I suppose. The think is philosophers tend to over analyze everything. IMHO, of course. M=> "Magick" to me is a study in philosophy, but I've found that it boils do nM=>to simpler truths and basic observations. *Shrugz* It just takes a while to M=>master these things. Exactly. Just as it takes time to master many simple things such as walking, speaking, and boiling an egg. I think neither of us has mastered this last one. Am I correct. M=>KA>But the phrase doesn't necessarily mean "after the physics". The suffix M=>KA>META- means "in the midst of , among, between, after, or according to. M=> In modern usage, "after the physics" is the origin of the term metaphysi s. M=>We can use the word differently as we do other terms, of course. The term wa M=>in reference to how Aristotle organized his writings. Well, modern usage aside, I look at the root of the words and that is what I take it to mean. It is not just after the physics, but also before, between and among. "After", is one of the least accepted definitions of the prefix meta-. M=> *Smiles* It sounds like the folks at White Wolf have been borrowing. M=>Not surprising. I still maintain that I like those terms for people who are M=>and are not into the arts. Well, I suppose you borrow what works, hey? I agree that the term is better than mundane. It seems a *little* less derogatory. I generally state them as simply psychically unaware. This does not imply that they cannot become aware, nor does it imply that they are otherwise unaware nor lacking in spirituality, only that they are simply unaware of the psionic side of it. Light! Ishte --- * OLXWin 1.00b * Ayant un dragon en mon seuil! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Magick Area: MagickNet To: Kandilokai Ach Ishte 26 Sep 96 00:37:00 Subject: A small essay.... UpdReq KA>Much like politics, I suppose. The think is philosophers tend to KA>over analyze everything. IMHO, of course. They not only over analyze things, methinks they use overly complex words to convey simple messages. Of course, it isn't like mages never do such things. *Grinz impishly* Right? Think about how the first workers of magick on this world must have done things. The mighty shamans and priests of the oldest sort praying for plentiful game and luck during the hunts. Did they have to scavage or search through dusty tomes of overly complicated text to find their power? I wouldn't expect so. They knew that passion was enough. Something to think about. KA>Exactly. Just as it takes time to master many simple things such as KA>walking, speaking, and boiling an egg. I think neither of us has KA>mastered this last one. Am I correct. *Grinz sheepishly* About boiling water or working magick, Ishte? *Winks* I am learning how to cook in the kitchen. KA>Well, modern usage aside, I look at the root of the words and that is KA>what I take it to mean. It is not just after the physics, but also KA>before, between and among. "After", is one of the least accepted KA>definitions of the prefix meta-. I agree. It can be used that way. Still, I am comfortable with the term magick. It is the only word in this language that fits what I know. I know that it does have negative connotations with it. At least, it isn't surgically sterile. *Shrugz* KA>Well, I suppose you borrow what works, hey? Exactly! Pax vobiscum.... --- * UniQWK v3.3a* Only thing more accurate than enemy fire is friendly fire. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kandilokai Ach Ishte Area: MagickNet To: Magick 26 Sep 96 21:31:00 Subject: A small essay.... UpdReq M=>*Grinz impishly* Right? Think about how the first workers of magick on this M=>world must have done things. The mighty shamans and priests of the oldest so tM=>praying for plentiful game and luck during the hunts. Did they have to scava eM=>or search through dusty tomes of overly complicated text to find their power I M=>wouldn't expect so. They knew that passion was enough. M=> Something to think about. It is something that never occurs to many however. Where did the first of these workings come from? Why did they work simply because the people believed that they would? How *could* they work without the proper ritual, the proper words, the proper garment, the proper implement, the proper way? Just that. There was not proper way. It works because the one doing the working believes in the work itself. This is true even now, even today. M=>KA>Exactly. Just as it takes time to master many simple things such as M=>KA>walking, speaking, and boiling an egg. I think neither of us has M=>KA>mastered this last one. Am I correct. M=> *Grinz sheepishly* M=> About boiling water or working magick, Ishte? *Winks* I can boil water just fine, as I am sure you can as well. It is when I add the egg to the mixture that I run into problems. While there are some few things that I can cook and cook well, The boiled egg is still a puzzle to me. It never seems quite right. M=>KA>Well, modern usage aside, I look at the root of the words and that is M=>KA>what I take it to mean. It is not just after the physics, but also M=>KA>before, between and among. "After", is one of the least accepted M=>KA>definitions of the prefix meta-. M=> I agree. It can be used that way. Still, I am comfortable with the term M=>magick. It is the only word in this language that fits what I know. I know t at M=>it does have negative connotations with it. At least, it isn't surgically M=>sterile. *Shrugz* Wear what fits, and do not wear the rest, is what I always say. (though not in so many words, but the analogy fits.) I will still tease thee for it though! Light! Ishte --- * OLXWin 1.00b * I've got a dragon on my doorstep! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Magick Area: MagickNet To: Kandilokai Ach Ishte 27 Sep 96 23:07:00 Subject: A small essay.... UpdReq KA>It is something that never occurs to many however.... There was not proper KA>way. It works because the one doing the working believes in the work itself. KA>This is true even now, even today. *Nods* It is as I have been taught to believe. My old instructor often said that all acts of faith or magick could be reduced to a simple formula (the one that I use as a tagline so often): Magick=Intent->Vision->Manifestation. Basically, there is a desire for something to happen. The willworker applies that to an envisioning of what s/he wants to occur and awaits manifestation. It probably always has been this way. KA>I can boil water just fine, as I am sure you can as well. It is when I KA>add the egg to the mixture that I run into problems. While there are KA>some few things that I can cook and cook well, The boiled egg is still a KA>puzzle to me. It never seems quite right. This is true. I actually can cook simple things well now. Living for these months as I have, well, one either learns to deal or suffers. That old adage about how one's mother doesn't work here applies. *Grinz* But, I digress.... KA>Wear what fits, and do not wear the rest, is what I always say. (though KA>not in so many words, but the analogy fits.) I will still tease thee KA>for it though! You can tease and make fun of me all that you wish, Ishte. You are one of my oldest and most respected friends. *Smiles* I'm still going to use magick as my term. I might use metaphysics as a backup. *Winks* --- * UniQWK v3.3a* Magick: Manifestation equals Passion times Vision. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Magick Area: MagickNet To: Stardance 27 Sep 96 23:25:00 Subject: Magick styles UpdReq Stardance, Hi there. I just caught your post to Khephera and thought to reply. Your style for dealing with magick sounds very much like my own and that of a number of other people I know. *Smiles* A pleasure to meet you again. S >But, you see, *I* can raise a lot of energy with very little effort...and if S >I can, I know others can, too. I don't have to go through a lengthy process S >to do so. I can hold out my hand, concentrate a bit, and have an energy S >ball sitting in the palm of my hand. Exactly! I'm one of those who can do it too. If I want something more stable or stronger, well, I shift from "just playing" mode mentally. Things like energy balls and altering of basic quintessence is very useful when one is journeying astrally. I studied some shamanism techniques but still don't have a good name for working within alternate states of consciousness. *Smiles* S >I want it, there it is. Only, I don't do it just for kicks, no, but others S >can, and can do a lot of mischief with it, and at the same time, can S >inadvertently raise something along with the energy if they're not real S >careful. That was the point I was trying to make. *I* know what I am doing, S >a lot of amateurs *don't*, and can get into a lot of trouble, and can CAUSE S >a lot of trouble, because of that. Hmmm.... I rarely play with magick in that way. Still, it can be a distraction every once in a while. For example, a friend and I were working in circle the other evening. As we waited for things to start, I was trying to demonstrate for a newer member of the circle how to make energy balls and the like. My friend thought it would be fun to change the shapes of what I was making. Like I said, it was a rare thing. I usually take my magick TOO seriously. *Grinz* S >Again, what books? I don't use them, and I am not limited to them. A lot S >of my knowledge is in my head. I am one of those people who can visualize S >very clearly, and if I concentrate, can link with others, and pass that S >visualization on to them. There are natural, untrained talents out there S >who do this without even realizing what they are doing, and whether you like S >to admit it or not, they *can* cause 'accidents', and not a book in sight, S >or even an inkling of what it is they are doing, but the results can be S >anything from relatively harmless, to almost disastrous. Very eloquently put, Stardance. *Applauds* If you take the question of books further, you get what happened to me one day. I went into a local store with every intention of buying a book about magick. Usually, I let my intuition guide me in such purchases as my budget is limited and I trust my senses of what I need. Well, after about 2 hours, I left without buying anything. This realization that anything anyone has ever written about magick could be duplicated without a book entered my mind. I have never purchased another book about magick since then. Just thought I would throw a few cents at you. *Grinz* Pax vobiscum.... --- * UniQWK v3.3a* If at Faust you don't succeed, try another school. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jade Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 30 Sep 96 21:36:00 Subject: Thelema UpdReq I found your explanation to be interesting, I am not sure I understood all of it, but I found it interesting. Thank you for the reading list though. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718