From: Jade Area: MagickNet To: Paul Hume 5 Sep 96 20:37:00 Subject: Pollution UpdReq And it is splitting hairs like Occam's Razor to debate if the source is the Thelema or the Rede. And in response to your every person is a star comment....Well, that may be true, but the stars are not alone in the firmament and neither are we alone. Indeed it can be justifiably said that we are not alone for we are one. Admittedly from a certain point of view. On to another thought, I have been thinking about pollution again (or is that still?). I cannot say if Magick is polluting or if it is the attitude that is polluting. I read some material about the magics of people of tradition and I found out something interesting. In many of their magical systems, spells once cast cannot be banished, revoked or nullified. This is true of white, gray or black spells. I think that this may bear on the point I made a while ago, that magic might be polluting. If the magics once cast are so durable, then they share something of the nature of plastics and other artificial substances. Incidently, the people of tradition believe that while magic spells cannot be broken per se, the subject of the spell can be changed. So a curse cannot be undone, but the object of the curse can be changed. That is, the person who cast the curse can be made the person cursed, thus freeing the original target of the contagion. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Morpheus Shapiro Area: MagickNet To: Jade 5 Sep 96 08:08:00 Subject: Pollution UpdReq ... From center stage, Jade declaimed eloquently to Pan ... JJ> PP> seems to me that all things could be defined as alive, and JJ> PP> each of these beings have some thing which causes pain of I am the mother of all things, and I say all things will wear a sweater 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Giles Area: MagickNet To: Pan 2 Sep 96 12:45:00 Subject: Equinox of the Gods UpdReq WPC; x The Gods) with a reference point of Ciro Egypt Lat and Lon 17:04 E 39:23 N ... This BBS has achieved Air superiority. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: FireSpell Area: MagickNet To: Stardance 5 Sep 96 23:30:42 Subject: Magick styles UpdReq On Wed Sep 04, 1996 (12:27), Stardance wrote about Re: Magick styles: Fi> Netmail on this subject is heading your way. If you don't see it, I Fi> would check with your sysop. S> Ummm, what netmail???? The netmail I sent you, of course. I can control the fact that it's sent out. However, I can't control what (if anything) the BBS you call does with it when it arrives. On THIS BBS, users can easily see incoming netmail messages that are for them. However, that's not true of all BBS systems, I have no control over what your sysop does with such mails. That's why I wanted to be sure you would keep an eye out for it (and ask your sysop where it was, if you didn't see it). I just hate it when a note I've spent time writing goes "inot a black hole", never to be seen from again.... S> Did I say something wrong??? No, not in the least. I just felt it was time to "take the conversation to netmail" (a time honored BBS tradition). FireSpell 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Jade 6 Sep 96 10:57:00 Subject: Pollution UpdReq Jade - Occams Razor doesn't split hairs - but that's another discussion. I have no disagreement with the notion that the concept of doing one's Will is universal, regardless of which formulation, but what I took issue to was your "correction" of the quotation "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." It is not incomplete or incorrect when lacking a glued on piece of Wiccan cant. I have some issues with insisting that we must all understand the Universe your way, implicit in the reason for your correction, but since we use different models, all we do in debating those is get into an is-so/is-not loop. I am unclear on what you mean by "people of tradition." If you mean there are various cultures (tribal or otherwise) which believe spells are forver, it does not seem to me that they use the white/black/grey distinction, for one thing, since these are a European distinction, and one of fairly recent vintage as such things go (Renaissance-ish or so). But more to the point, I don't know that non-biodegradable artifacts like plastics are a relevant model - the Lakota have a saying to the effect of "only the mountains are forever" - so a spell which lasts forever may be more analogous to a stone or mountain than a piece of litter. I don't, as it happens, believe that there is any spell which is "unbreakable" - though I am closer to agreement on the concept that a curse can light upon the caster if it fails to reach the target. Indeed, in my experience, it cannot go anywhere else, and in this model is the basis of magical defense. Magick arises from the Universe, and as in the model in physics of the Conservation of Energy, while the energy of Magick cannot be created or destroyed, it can be changed in form. Entropy is an issue in magick as in any other organized form of information, or so it seems to me - though the changes it effects become real (leaving aside the question of just what "real" means) and persist whether they are maintained by some magical effect or not. For example - if I curse A, and A catches the flu, the disease will run its course in the way of nature, regardless of what is going on with the curse. If I learn something by invoking a God, that knowledge persists in my holographic memory after the God departs, just as things I learned in school 25 years ago remain part of my memory even though I am no longer in the classroom. Regards, Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718