From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 23 Aug 96 12:54:50 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq Gryphon - When the magical aspects of a Neopagan sect (Alexandrian Wicca as demosntrated by the Farrar's comes to mind) are an integral part of the tradition, of the circle work, etc. I tend to think of this as organic, especially when you don't have, say, a Golden Dawn talisman working glued into a pseudo-Celtic religious ceremony (which is the kind of thing I meant by ragged welding (g)). Magick is magick and you can get burned doing it any time, as far as that goes, but celebratory magick, bridging the gap between magick and prayer (not prayer as in "Oh Gods I need a new car" but thanksgiving and honest dialogue) is unlikely to hurt much - and when it does the sting is usually being given the insight you were striving for, and your ego going "ouch" because it doesn't match what you THOUGHT you were asking for (g). Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Irv Koch Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 23 Aug 96 21:31:30 Subject: Re: Magick UpdReq > Actually, Abracadabra is a legitament Magickal Phrase. ;) SG> Please, tell me your kidding, or I'm going to start laughing.... I SG> always thought it was something made up by Hodini or some such SG> personage... And please excuse my lurking, just reading and trying Other way round. The stage magicians took in from the real ones. Didn't find what I was looking for. Godwin's Cabalistic Encyclopedia cites it as a magick word to cure fevers. I think I've seen it elsewhere as something on the order of "do as I command." 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Domino Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 22 Aug 96 23:24:36 Subject: Re: Magick UpdReq Khephera, having seen Shadow during his little streak, remarked: K> Nope...Abracadabra is one of those words adopted by modern K> stage magicians- but it's actually a very old and powerful K> Magickal words. K> It comes from the Chaldean words "Abbada Ke Dabra" which K> means something like "perish like the word". The word was K> written on a piece of paper like so: "Abbada Ke Dabra" ? According to a book of symbolism I read, "abracadabra" was derived from Hebrew "Abreq ad Hbra", "hurl your thunderbolt even unto death"... Perhaps it was more like a universal word of power, much like the swastika was once a universal symbol of power? Oh, and BTW, written in pyramid form, it was also reported that if you stuck that piece of paper under someone's doorstep the people that walked over it would be compelled to dance uncontrollably. Abreq ad Hbra Domino .. Clockwork BBS - Zone Coordinator, BloodNET Mailing Network - 999:999/0 .. ... Magicians do it with rabbits. ___ TagDude 0.83 [Unregistered] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Ellie Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 23 Aug 96 15:11:00 Subject: Re: Magick UpdReq Quoting Khephera to Ellie Re: Re: Magick E> Most students of the occult use "magick" with a k, to differentiate it f E> abracadbra-type stage magic. Kh> Actually, Abracadabra is a legitament Magickal Phrase. ;) You're right... I hadn't thought of that! I had seen it once in a book as some sort of talisman to cure an illness. || || lli the \\()// pider-Wm //(__)\\ || || 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: FireSpell Area: MagickNet To: Stardance 24 Aug 96 01:19:40 Subject: Magick styles UpdReq On Tue Aug 20, 1996 (11:37), Stardance wrote about Re: ouija: S> There is a reason protective capabilities are stressed when doing any S> kind of magickal working. It is, really, for your own safety. Fi> Often that is the case, yes. The problem comes when groups have you Fi> jumping through hoops, just for the sake of jumping through Fi> hoops.... S> That is power-tripping, and more for personal egos than for anything S> useful. True. Another problem is those "experts" that spend all their time worrying about getting the form of the ritual exact, while forgetting what they are trying to accomplish. A lot of magick is controlled by a focus of the mind. Spend too much time worrying about "the trappings" and you can easily get distracted from what you are doing.... S> So why do too many people scoff at it? Fi> Impatience, perhaps? S> Or an exaggerated sense of bravado. Probably a little bit of both. S> I might not go in for the big fancy stuff, but I *always* take full S> precautions when doing any working. It's become an ingrained habit S> over the years. What do you mean by "full precautions"? To my mind, that phrase doesn't really make sense. Sure, you can take precautions (and I do), but how do you define "full precautions" (since isn't there always "just one more" precaution you could do)? As I see it, "magick precautions" are done for roughly the same reasons you buy insurance. Just as I don't buy absolutely as much health insurance as someone would theoretically be willing to sell me (due to the resulting cost of the premiums), neither do I do every "magick precaution" I could theoretically do. At the same time, neither do I ignore precaution either (or health insurance for that matter). Like all of life, it's a balancing act. You have to decide what is a reasonable level of risk for what you are doing. You just do not need to take the same level of preparation to do a simple "attunement to the environment" that would be prudent to do before say a delicate healing ritual.... S> And then end up hurting either themselves, or someone else. Fi> Getting in "over their head", perhaps? S> Trying to do too much, too soon, or with too little preparation..... Yes, that happens. However, keep in mind that there are other explanations that sometimes fit. Just as ONE counter-example, there are the unfortunate individuals who find themselves the victim of a magickal attack. Such an individual frequently does not have the "luxury" of postponing the encounter, but instead has to deal with whatever is being thrown at them (even if they aren't "ready yet").... S> I dunno. It could be any number of things....but too many times I S> have seen people get into something that turned out to be WAY more S> than they could handle. That's a good time to call in your allies (especially deities) to help out. ;-) But yes, I know what you mean. Part of the problem, is that many a newbe doesn't have a good idea as to what is and what isn't "reasonably safe". This is complicated by all the disinformation out there. Just WHO is a beginner to trust? It's not at all obvious to many beginners. Just because someone seems to have "magickal credentials" does not make them a safe choice by a LONG shot!!! FireSpell 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Stardance Area: MagickNet To: FireSpell 26 Aug 96 18:21:00 Subject: Re: Magick styles UpdReq **** Constellations exploded when Stardance heard **** Fi> On Tue Aug 20, 1996 (11:37), Stardance wrote about Re: ouija: S> There is a reason protective capabilities are stressed when doing any S> kind of magickal working. It is, really, for your own safety. Fi> Often that is the case, yes. The problem comes when groups have you Fi> jumping through hoops, just for the sake of jumping through Fi> hoops.... S> That is power-tripping, and more for personal egos than for anything S> useful. Fi> True. Fi> Another problem is those "experts" that spend all their time Fi> worrying about getting the form of the ritual exact, while forgetting Fi> what they are trying to accomplish. A lot of magick is controlled by Fi> a focus of the mind. Spend too much time worrying about "the Fi> trappings" and you can easily get distracted from what you are Fi> doing.... More style than substance. The showmanship is what counts, not the actual doing. Ooooh, I've come across that many a time. I prefer more practical things....and could care less what I'm wearing while doing so. I don't own any ritual robes or other trappings....why??? Is it a law that what I'm wearing counts in what I may be trying to accomplish??? Sounds a bit silly to me. The tools I do have are nothing fancy....most are of natural materials, a few are antiques gotten from various members of my family that have passed on...like the crystal candle holders that once belonged to my grandmother, or the wooden bowls carved by a great-grandfather, the same one who crafted the china cabinet my mother has had for 40 years now. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy....but they work just fine for me. And the words and rituals I use are just as simple. And they always work fine. As in anything, what works best is what comes from the heart, not from the store or a catalogue, or a book. You have to first *believe* in what you are doing, if you hope to accomplish anything other than wasting time and resources. S> So why do too many people scoff at it? Fi> Impatience, perhaps? S> Or an exaggerated sense of bravado. Fi> Probably a little bit of both. The short-cutters. Want all the glory, without the work. The quick- fix, instant-gratification culture which we now live in makes for some really sad commentary. S> I might not go in for the big fancy stuff, but I *always* take full S> precautions when doing any working. It's become an ingrained habit S> over the years. Fi> What do you mean by "full precautions"? To my mind, that phrase Fi> doesn't really make sense. Sure, you can take precautions (and I do), Fi> but how do you define "full precautions" (since isn't there always Fi> "just one more" precaution you could do)? Fi> As I see it, "magick precautions" are done for roughly the same Fi> reasons you buy insurance. Just as I don't buy absolutely as much Fi> health insurance as someone would theoretically be willing to sell me Fi> (due to the resulting cost of the premiums), neither do I do every Fi> "magick precaution" I could theoretically do. At the same time, Fi> neither do I ignore precaution either (or health insurance for that Fi> matter). Like all of life, it's a balancing act. You have to decide Fi> what is a reasonable level of risk for what you are doing. You just Fi> do not need to take the same level of preparation to do a simple Fi> "attunement to the environment" that would be prudent to do before say Fi> a delicate healing ritual.... I meant, I adjust to what it is I am trying to accomplish, and I try to do things properly. No short cuts. For really simple things, there's no need to short cut...it's already simple and hardly takes anything major....for anything bigger, especially if a great deal of energy will be involved, I try to guard against 'leakage', so as to not cause any accidental problems with the unsuspecting world outside my work area. I *was* brought up to be polite, you know. My concern is as much for others as it is for myself. One could easily harm another, if one isn't careful sometimes. And I would be most unhappy with myself if I were to do so, accidentally or carelessly. And I try to be 'on my manners' with anything 'Other'....proper address can be crucial sometimes, even if you don't think it such a big deal. Mainly, I just try to be considerate of the world around me...stray energy can do some really odd things, and not always pleasant. S> And then end up hurting either themselves, or someone else. Fi> Getting in "over their head", perhaps? S> Trying to do too much, too soon, or with too little preparation..... Fi> Yes, that happens. However, keep in mind that there are other Fi> explanations that sometimes fit. Just as ONE counter-example, there Fi> are the unfortunate individuals who find themselves the victim of a Fi> magickal attack. Such an individual frequently does not have the Fi> "luxury" of postponing the encounter, but instead has to deal with Fi> whatever is being thrown at them (even if they aren't "ready yet").... True. One of the first things I did...and have maintained ever since, working to strengthen and improve them, was to erect personal shields. I can drop and raise them at will...though most of the time they are on 'passive' mode, still there, just not at full strength, but can be raised so in a heartbeat. I had someone work with me on that aspect...until between one breath and the next, I could raise or drop them as needed. I have even learned, in the last few years, how to 'extend' them around others....especially my kids. Not that it is likely I will ever need them, but one never knows, and when or if it ever *does* happen, I won't have the luxury of wishing I *had* done what I have. The odd thing is....my oldest boy was *born* with a natural ability to shield himself, and as he gets older, it gets stronger. I've often wondered about that... S> I dunno. It could be any number of things....but too many times I S> have seen people get into something that turned out to be WAY more S> than they could handle. Fi> That's a good time to call in your allies (especially deities) to Fi> help out. ;-) Fi> But yes, I know what you mean. Part of the problem, is that many Fi> a newbe doesn't have a good idea as to what is and what isn't Fi> "reasonably safe". This is complicated by all the disinformation out Fi> there. Just WHO is a beginner to trust? It's not at all obvious to Fi> many beginners. Just because someone seems to have "magickal Fi> credentials" does not make them a safe choice by a LONG shot!!! Unfortunately, magick is something that is easily exploitable, and easy to target with misinformation and pure bunk. But someone who is skilled in words, and has reasonable charisma, can fool just about anyone, even those who consider themselves reasonably expert on the subject. It doesn't take much. Stardance ... Dragon Poker...here Five Scales of a Kind beat a Full Palace any day! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Morpheus Shapiro Subject: Clumsiness in Ceremony????? UpdReq On Aug 21 09:31 96, Morpheus Shapiro of 93:9710/5 wrote: MS> LOGISTICS. MS> My first problem was like yours:You can't have everything. Where would you MS> put it? [...] Hello there. ;) Just wanted to say thanks for responding. I don't have the time to answer in full- as I've been working on my system (the whole thing has blown). ;) All should be great from now on though.... That's what happens when you upgrade. ;) Oh, and thanks for the compliments. :):):) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Morpheus Shapiro Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 27 Aug 96 11:40:00 Subject: Circle Tools UpdReq Hello Khephera! . As usual, its good to read your excellent sharing on this net. Blessings to you, Priest of your Craft I was especially instructed recently on the BOS echo when you revealed that expanding your aura is the same as casting the circle. Given that this is not always true for everybody 8and what *is* true is what works, this insite was a revelation to me. U C, i was taught to do both-cast a circle and expand my shields. I just never saw them as the same thing before. So thankyou Khephera! BB! I' can't see an aura around anything. I do see nature elementals and the sylphs whisper to me in the shower, I am more than average psychic with strong precog and astral seeing, so lack of ability or training is not the prob here. My personal opinion, is that there is no Aura 2 C, and the whole aura thing is a metaphore for what I perceive as reading people-about their lives their sins, their bends, loops, and curves (especially the curves) which therapists call 'observation' and which is only one of 12 seperate skills of the master psychic, IMHO of course.so anyway, I don't expand any auras. Instead, there is this shield i wuz carefully taught to wrap around me, and tearing it down n' renewing it, often daily, makes it a psychic 'closed mind' and an intense awareness of the area 1-6 feet just outside of my skin. So that awareness, along with the colors and intent of the shild can be imagin-thrown out to encompass anything I am in-car interiors are usual 4 me, I like to stear on many levels at the same time. Time? Gods I am outa time. Hope me express train of info carma didn't run over your Dogma, Raga Rules, and I wood luv 2 read anything U write on the above back at me. BB Morph-The-Unabashed 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: GOLDEN KNIGHT Area: MagickNet To: SHADOW GRYPHON 24 Aug 96 23:40:00 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question. UpdReq SG> > I used to know someone who was allergic to different incense (burning SG> > type). There are also non-burning incense and scented oils. Have you SG> > tried either of those? SG>Nope, but I've pretty much decided I'm going to get some weak-scented SG>candles SG>and mix in some scented oil, or get some strong scented candles.... :) SG>Thanks! If you decide to try the scented oils, you might want to stop by most any department or craft store and pick up a piece of felt. You can put a few drops of oil on the felt and it lasts a while. You can also get those little round felts that are generally used for pads on the bottoms of trinket boxes, etc. They usually have sticky on one side. --- * TNet 3.90 = (93:9750/3) The Imperial Palace * Georgia * 706-592-1344 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: FireSpell Area: MagickNet To: Stardance 29 Aug 96 01:09:50 Subject: Magick styles UpdReq On Mon Aug 26, 1996 (18:21), Stardance wrote about Re: Magick styles: Fi> Another problem is those "experts" that spend all their time Fi> worrying about getting the form of the ritual exact, while forgetting S> More style than substance. The showmanship is what counts, S> not the actual doing. Ooooh, I've come across that many a time. I S> prefer more practical things....and could care less what I'm wearing S> while doing so. I agree. Of course, the "proper form" of the ritual can add to it's power. The problem is not in observing form, it's when the form takes over to the detriment of other factors more important to the magick. S> The short-cutters. Want all the glory, without the work. The S> quick- fix, instant-gratification culture which we now live in makes S> for some really sad commentary. Actually I don't see anything wrong with "short cuts" per se. Finding easier ways to do things is a worthwhile goal after all. The problem occurs when the "short cut" is of noticeably lower quality (in some sense) than the "long way". For example, maybe the short cut is less safe, or has more side effects, or doesn't do as good of a job, or.... Naturally, the newbe is not in the best of positions to judge how good a "short cut" is. Fi> What do you mean by "full precautions"? To my mind, that phrase S> I meant, I adjust to what it is I am trying to accomplish, and I try S> to do things properly. No short cuts. For really simple things, S> there's no need to short cut...it's already simple and hardly takes S> anything major....for anything bigger, especially if a great deal of S> energy will be involved, I try to guard against 'leakage', so as to OK, I think I understand you position. The problem comes in when you are not working off an established magick system you were taught by another. For anyone who designs their own spells (and I do from time to time), you have to use your own judgment as to what is the "appropriate" way to do things (as someone else hasn't figured this out for you). So when you design your own spells, just what is and what isn't a "short cut" can be somewhat unclear. S> not cause any accidental problems with the unsuspecting world outside S> my work area. I *was* brought up to be polite, you know. My S> concern is as much for others as it is for myself. One could easily S> harm another, if one isn't careful sometimes. And I would be most I understand. Of course, there are multiple ways to approach this. For example, one way to make sure everything comes out "right" (magick doesn't go into wrong areas for example), is to spend a lot of time setting up ritual space, erecting wards, etc. However, other approaches are equally valid. For example, what about magicians that spend less "prep time" initially, but monitor their spells for undesirable "side effects" and take appropriate actions (for example, quickly shutting down the spell) when they occur? I would argue that such a magician is showing responsibility for their actions, even if they are "taking short cuts". S> And I try to be 'on my manners' with anything 'Other'....proper S> address can be crucial sometimes, even if you don't think it such a S> big deal. I know what you mean. Piss off the wrong deity (or any powerful spirit for that matter), and life can get "interesting" for a while. :-( FWIW I must admit that I have been known to be downright rude to some spirits. However, it depends upon the spirit (and how they are behaving). Those that I think deserve respect, usually get it. Those that are acting like "spoiled brats" (or worse), get treated as such. S> Mainly, I just try to be considerate of the world around me...stray S> energy can do some really odd things, and not always pleasant. In other words, take responsibility for your magick. Make a reasonable effort to keep the side effect down. Also "clean up the mess" if a problem does occur! S> True. One of the first things I did...and have maintained ever S> since, working to strengthen and improve them, was to erect personal S> shields. I can drop and raise them at will...though most of the time S> they are on 'passive' mode, still there, just not at full strength, S> but can be raised so in a heartbeat. I know the idea. Both for personal protection, and general curiosity, I've spent a moderate amount of time studying shielding magick. Like you, my shields are left on "stand by" (not off) the vast majority of the time. While I still haven't found a way to avoid the "minor nuisances" entirely without "blinding" some of my psychic senses (due to the interference some of my shields give off when energized), personal magickal protections will power up instantly if/when anything major hits them. S> I have even learned, in the last few years, how to 'extend' them S> around others....especially my kids. I must admit that's a skill I haven't worked on. The way I look at it, my "personal shields" are MY "personal shields". If I want to protect someone else, I construct shields for them and/or construct shields for the area we are in. After all, you don't need to take down your own personal shields to put up additional shields (that can help protect others) on the area you are in. Besides which, (with practice) you can put up a crude but effective "force wall" "from scratch" in seconds (say if you need to protect someone near you in a hurry). It might not hold for long, but you can use the time it buys you to put some more sophisticated ward on the area.... S> Not that it is likely I will ever need them, but one never knows, and S> when or if it ever *does* happen, I won't have the luxury of wishing S> I *had* done what I have. Better to buy the insurance policy BEFORE you find yourself in the hospital, eh? ;-) FireSpell 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Stardance 28 Aug 96 13:36:20 Subject: Re: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Re: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Stardance to Shadow Gryphon on Fri Aug 23 1996 01:16 pm > **** Constellations exploded when Stardance heard **** > > SG> RE: Re: Hmmm... Oddball question... > SG> BY: Stardance to Shadow Gryphon on Mon Aug 12 1996 12:56 pm > > > Have you tried the Lapidar echo?? > > > ... Survival Tip #2: Never moon a werewolf. > SG> Noppers, and I gotta tell you something: as a devout werewolf > SG> fanatic, I love your tagline.. :) > > Lapidar is the place to go if ya wanna know about rocks. > > As for the tagline....I've got so many, I forget what all is in the file. > But thanks.....got that one a long time ago. =) Cool... I'll try that echo, thanks! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Paul Hume 28 Aug 96 13:37:50 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Paul Hume to Shadow Gryphon on Fri Aug 23 1996 12:54 pm > Gryphon - > When the magical aspects of a Neopagan sect (Alexandrian Wicca as demosntrat > by the Farrar's comes to mind) are an integral part of the tradition, of the > circle work, etc. I tend to think of this as organic, especially when you do > have, say, a Golden Dawn talisman working glued into a pseudo-Celtic religio > ceremony (which is the kind of thing I meant by ragged welding (g)). > > Magick is magick and you can get burned doing it any time, as far as that go > but celebratory magick, bridging the gap between magick and prayer (not pray > as in "Oh Gods I need a new car" but thanksgiving and honest dialogue) is > unlikely to hurt much - and when it does the sting is usually being given th > insight you were striving for, and your ego going "ouch" because it doesn't > match what you THOUGHT you were asking for (g). Hmmm... Lemme think on that for a few seconds...... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Domino Subject: Re: Magick UpdReq On Aug 22 23:24 96, Domino of 93:9180/1 wrote: K>> Nope...Abracadabra is one of those words adopted by modern K>> stage magicians- but it's actually a very old and powerful K>> Magickal words. It comes from the Chaldean words "Abbada Ke Dabra" which K>> means something like "perish like the word". The word was K>> written on a piece of paper like so: D> "Abbada Ke Dabra" ? According to a book of symbolism I read, "abracadabra" D> was derived from Hebrew "Abreq ad Hbra", "hurl your thunderbolt even unto D> death"... Perhaps it was more like a universal word of power, much like the D> swastika was once a universal symbol of power? Well, the source I have indicates that the Hebrew origin theory is most likely inaccurate. And, as far as it goes, the Chaldean origin makes more sense when you apply the translation to the use of the word. As for "universal symbol of power", I'd have to say no (My opinion so far...). All I have personally ever seen it used for is banishing illness. I do think Crowley had other uses for his own "corrected" version of it....but that's about it... D> Oh, and BTW, written in pyramid form, it was also reported that if you stuck D> that piece of paper under someone's doorstep the people that walked over it D> would be compelled to dance uncontrollably. Now that's a new one on me. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Ellie Subject: Re: Magick UpdReq On Aug 23 15:11 96, Ellie of 93:9100/3 wrote: E> Quoting Khephera to Ellie E> Re: Re: Magick E>> Most students of the occult use "magick" with a k, to differentiate it f E>> abracadbra-type stage magic. Kh>> Actually, Abracadabra is a legitament Magickal Phrase. ;) E> You're right... I hadn't thought of that! I had seen it once in a book as E> some sort of talisman to cure an illness. Yep! ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Irv Koch 28 Aug 96 13:38:46 Subject: Re: Magick UpdReq RE: Re: Magick BY: Irv Koch to Shadow Gryphon on Fri Aug 23 1996 09:31 pm > > Actually, Abracadabra is a legitament Magickal Phrase. ;) > > SG> Please, tell me your kidding, or I'm going to start laughing.... I > SG> always thought it was something made up by Hodini or some such > SG> personage... And please excuse my lurking, just reading and trying > > Other way round. The stage magicians took in from the real ones. to go look it up> Didn't find what I was looking for. Godwin's Cabalistic > Encyclopedia cites it as a magick word to cure fevers. I think I've seen > it elsewhere as something on the order of "do as I command." > How very cool.... Thanks! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Pan Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 29 Aug 96 21:02:00 Subject: abrahadabra UpdReq man, crowley went nuts on that word. there's too much to it to explain it all, but crowley wrote this BOOK 4 in which he described how nursery rhymes and childrens stories(fairies tails) were infact cleverly written stories for alchemical proccess and magick formula.. ....in the word abrahadabra, note the letters in the word, the value and the number of letters in the word... be cool! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Pan Area: MagickNet To: Jade 29 Aug 96 20:55:00 Subject: Re: Pollution UpdReq seems to me that all things could be defined as alive, and each of these beings have some thing which causes pain of death if exposed for too long.. in short everything has it's own poisons. i guess one has to find out what is good/bad right/wrong for themselves. it's nice to think about others, and do them not harm.. but it tis a cruel world we live in, and like minded people will gravitate together, so we must all do our personal will and not worry whether or not it really is good(bad) for others.. that does not justify general meaness, but should rather instill true pride and nobility and expand honor and respect. do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Stardance Area: MagickNet To: FireSpell 31 Aug 96 12:22:00 Subject: Re: Magick styles UpdReq **** Constellations exploded when Stardance heard **** Fi> On Mon Aug 26, 1996 (18:21), Stardance wrote about Re: Magick styles: Fi> Another problem is those "experts" that spend all their time Fi> worrying about getting the form of the ritual exact, while forgetting S> More style than substance. The showmanship is what counts, S> not the actual doing. Ooooh, I've come across that many a time. I S> prefer more practical things....and could care less what I'm wearing S> while doing so. Fi> I agree. Of course, the "proper form" of the ritual can add to Fi> it's power. The problem is not in observing form, it's when the form Fi> takes over to the detriment of other factors more important to the Fi> magick. Form as in wording of the ritual? Yes, I can agree with that. Form as in only certain modes of dress are deemed appropriate? No, I don't agree. What should it matter how one is, or isn't dressed? But some people obsess over this to the point other things become occluded, including the ritual itself. S> The short-cutters. Want all the glory, without the work. The S> quick- fix, instant-gratification culture which we now live in makes S> for some really sad commentary. Fi> Actually I don't see anything wrong with "short cuts" per se. Fi> Finding easier ways to do things is a worthwhile goal after all. Fi> The problem occurs when the "short cut" is of noticeably lower Fi> quality (in some sense) than the "long way". For example, maybe the Fi> short cut is less safe, or has more side effects, or doesn't do as Fi> good of a job, or.... Fi> Naturally, the newbe is not in the best of positions to judge how Fi> good a "short cut" is. If you will recall...I meant those who bypass just about everything we would consider proper and necessary....ie, warding, etc, and jump straight to the 'meat' of something, wanting to see results *NOW*, and not caring how they achieve them. Mostly with disastrous results. There is a *reason* why things like grounding, centering, and shielding are stressed when first learning how to use and control magick. It is as much for one's personal safety, as it is for those around the person. I don't mind finding easier ways to do things....AS LONG as the 'easier' way is safe and practical, without opening one up to all kinds of repercussions. Fi> What do you mean by "full precautions"? To my mind, that phrase S> I meant, I adjust to what it is I am trying to accomplish, and I try S> to do things properly. No short cuts. For really simple things, S> there's no need to short cut...it's already simple and hardly takes S> anything major....for anything bigger, especially if a great deal of S> energy will be involved, I try to guard against 'leakage', so as to Fi> OK, I think I understand you position. The problem comes in when Fi> you are not working off an established magick system you were taught Fi> by another. For anyone who designs their own spells (and I do from Fi> time to time), you have to use your own judgment as to what is the Fi> "appropriate" way to do things (as someone else hasn't figured this Fi> out for you). So when you design your own spells, just what is and Fi> what isn't a "short cut" can be somewhat unclear. At that point, it becomes a matter of trial and error. And while working out the parameters, yes, I will and *do* use full precautions as a necessary measure against accidents. As time goes on, and things are refined, *then* and only then, will I start to pare down on things, until I am left with something safe, reliable, and practical....as in, most things I do I can get down from an initial half hour starting time, to about ten minutes max....and still get the same results, but less time consuming, just as safe as the longer version, and easier on my limited 'window of opportunity'. . This is only one example, mind you. There are any number of ways to do things...it comes down to what you are comfortable with, and are capable of doing. S> not cause any accidental problems with the unsuspecting world outside S> my work area. I *was* brought up to be polite, you know. My S> concern is as much for others as it is for myself. One could easily S> harm another, if one isn't careful sometimes. And I would be most Fi> I understand. Of course, there are multiple ways to approach Fi> this. For example, one way to make sure everything comes out "right" Fi> (magick doesn't go into wrong areas for example), is to spend a lot of Fi> time setting up ritual space, erecting wards, etc. However, other Fi> approaches are equally valid. For example, what about magicians that Fi> spend less "prep time" initially, but monitor their spells for Fi> undesirable "side effects" and take appropriate actions (for example, Fi> quickly shutting down the spell) when they occur? I would argue that Fi> such a magician is showing responsibility for their actions, even if Fi> they are "taking short cuts". I have a workspace I have dedicated to most of what I do. There are 'permanent' wards in place...that, like my personal shields, are usually on passive, or stand-by, mode, until I am actually using the area, and then can be quickly brought up to full strength. And I always 'monitor' everything, to make sure nothing is going awry. Again, that is simple responsibility, imo. As in using any kind of tool, magick as well as well as mundane, personal and general safety are things one should be aware of at all times. I concur with you above....there are multiple ways one can do things...and no one way is the 'right' way....but I can't stress enough that no matter how one does things, responsibility should be foremost on the shoulders of the one doing the working. S> And I try to be 'on my manners' with anything 'Other'....proper S> address can be crucial sometimes, even if you don't think it such a S> big deal. Fi> I know what you mean. Piss off the wrong deity (or any powerful Fi> spirit for that matter), and life can get "interesting" for a while. Fi> :-( Fi> FWIW I must admit that I have been known to be downright rude to Fi> some spirits. However, it depends upon the spirit (and how they are Fi> behaving). Those that I think deserve respect, usually get it. Those Fi> that are acting like "spoiled brats" (or worse), get treated as such. 'Interesting' is an understatement. I see you have my general attitude towards anyone, deity, spirit, or human. That's pretty much the way I am. S> Mainly, I just try to be considerate of the world around me...stray S> energy can do some really odd things, and not always pleasant. Fi> In other words, take responsibility for your magick. Make a Fi> reasonable effort to keep the side effect down. Also "clean up the Fi> mess" if a problem does occur! Exactly! To me, a good teacher is one who stresses personal responsibility in his/her students. One can be the most powerful and gifted person in the world...but without any sense of responsibility, that same person is really nothing more than a wilful selfish child turned loose on an unsuspecting world. Fi> I know the idea. Both for personal protection, and general Fi> curiosity, I've spent a moderate amount of time studying shielding Fi> magick. Like you, my shields are left on "stand by" (not off) the vast Fi> majority of the time. While I still haven't found a way to avoid the Fi> "minor nuisances" entirely without "blinding" some of my psychic Fi> senses (due to the interference some of my shields give off when Fi> energized), personal magickal protections will power up instantly Fi> if/when anything major hits them. The person who worked with me on mine often told me that "While it might never come to pass that such hair-trigger alertness will ever be necessary, I would much rather you have the ability, and never need it, than need it, and not have it, and consequently, find yourself in a very hairy situation". S> I have even learned, in the last few years, how to 'extend' them S> around others....especially my kids. Fi> I must admit that's a skill I haven't worked on. The way I look Fi> at it, my "personal shields" are MY "personal shields". If I want to Fi> protect someone else, I construct shields for them and/or construct Fi> shields for the area we are in. After all, you don't need to take Fi> down your own personal shields to put up additional shields (that can Fi> help protect others) on the area you are in. Fi> Besides which, (with practice) you can put up a crude but Fi> effective "force wall" "from scratch" in seconds (say if you need to Fi> protect someone near you in a hurry). It might not hold for long, but Fi> you can use the time it buys you to put some more sophisticated ward Fi> on the area.... I can, and have, constructed shields for others. The strange thing about this 'extending' seems to be....an instinctive reaction on my part, especially if I feel my children are in some kind of danger. There is a... connection there, and if something should brush up against them, I know instantly. It's weird...but at the same time, there is a sense of relief. I know I'm explaining this badly, forgive me. Then there is when my Dad died. I was in the hospital room at the moment his heart stopped, and without even thinking about it, I threw up some of the biggest, strongest shields I have ever done in my life...and basically 'sound-proofed' the room. The sheer amount of *energy* my father released in that final moment of his earthly life was staggering...and nearly knocked me on my butt. Everyone else in that room felt it, too...and there were some wild-eyed looks, to be sure....but if I hadn't of warded the room, everyone on that floor of the hospital could have had some serious problems. To this day, I'm not sure *why* I did what I did, it was purely instinctive, but I do know it was the right thing. That much energy, without guidance or control, could have seriously hurt someone...and being a hospital, I don't think I would have wanted to explain why every piece of monitoring equipment on that floor went haywire the moment my Dad died. I can think fast on my 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Stardance Area: MagickNet To: FireSpell 31 Aug 96 12:22:00 Subject: 2 Re: Magick styles UpdReq feet when I have to, but I doubt I could have talked my way of that one. S> Not that it is likely I will ever need them, but one never knows, and S> when or if it ever *does* happen, I won't have the luxury of wishing S> I *had* done what I have. Fi> Better to buy the insurance policy BEFORE you find yourself in Fi> the hospital, eh? ;-) Something like that. =) Stardance ... You conjured it, you feed it! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718