From: Ghost Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 7 Aug 96 19:58:24 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq .'. > You go and buy the scented oils, and put a couple of drops on a charcoal I use a small bowl [with optional water] with a candle below [this 'lamp' has a special name, but I don't know it]. or a piece of metal above a candle works fine, too. U could change the distance between heat and oil, it would smell purer than w/ a charcoal. > to anoint such candles in the desired scent of oil > Although, in my experience, you won't get as strong a scent from that... it depends on your nose. it can get used to very fine amounts of the oils [or what ever]. -+* 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 6 Aug 96 20:42:12 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Khephera to Shadow Gryphon on Mon Aug 05 1996 07:31 am > SG> And about the oil-annointing the candles- I've done that! I'm -very- > SG> obsessed with candles and trying to make them, change their scent, > SG> everything. I've made my own candles from old candle wax, mixed in so > SG> massage oil with the melted oil of another candle while it was burning > SG> (that one smelled soooo good for a couple days.... cinnamon and > SG> stress-relief massage oil.)... Huh... I think I've already done that > SG> type > SG> of thing already... Coincidence? I wonder.... > > Not likely. ;) Every had something like that happen? I need to start thinking, I bet stuff like that has happened to me before... Also, I know different stones are supposed to be good with magick. What kinds are found here in FL? And do you know f any in West Virginia? I have a family reunion I hafta go to this weekend, and I might as well get something besides seeing my grandparents and seeing a bunch of people I don't know out of it... ;) I realized at a funeral lately that I knew maybe a third of the people there... ::shakes head:: Sad fact is, it was for my Mom's brother, and my mom didn't know some of the people either... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 7 Aug 96 06:35:08 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq On Aug 06 20:42 96, Shadow Gryphon of 93:9087/0 wrote: >> SG> of thing already... Coincidence? I wonder.... >> >> Not likely. ;) SG> Every had something like that happen? But of course. ;) SG> I need to start thinking, I bet stuff like that has happened to me before... Probably. You're either a Magick User (or Pagan) or you're not. It's that simple. When you learn Magick- you may learn new things, and more sophisticated things- but you will also find that you've been using Magick all your life without even knowing it. SG> Also, I know different stones are supposed to be good with magick. What SG> kinds are found here in FL? And do you know f any in West Virginia? I have a You're talking to the wrong guy on stones. I certainly admit that they have validity (for instance, I'm a Lapis freak!!!)- but I don't give them the credit that the current NewAge Movement gives them... SG> ;) I realized at a funeral lately that I knew maybe a third of the people SG> there... ::shakes head:: Sad fact is, it was for my Mom's brother, and my SG> mom didn't know some of the people either... Not too uncommon. If you knew everyone, it'd mean he had a pretty boring life. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 7 Aug 96 09:09:48 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Khephera to Shadow Gryphon on Wed Aug 07 1996 06:35 am > On Aug 06 20:42 96, Shadow Gryphon of 93:9087/0 wrote: > > >> SG> of thing already... Coincidence? I wonder.... > >> > >> Not likely. ;) > > SG> Every had something like that happen? > > But of course. ;) > > SG> I need to start thinking, I bet stuff like that has happened to me > before... > > Probably. You're either a Magick User (or Pagan) or you're not. It's that > simple. When you learn Magick- you may learn new things, and more > sophisticated things- but you will also find that you've been using Magick a > your life without even knowing it. > > SG> Also, I know different stones are supposed to be good with magick. What > SG> kinds are found here in FL? And do you know f any in West Virginia? I ha > a > > You're talking to the wrong guy on stones. I certainly admit that they have > validity (for instance, I'm a Lapis freak!!!)- but I don't give them the cre > that the current NewAge Movement gives them... > > SG> ;) I realized at a funeral lately that I knew maybe a third of the peopl > SG> there... ::shakes head:: Sad fact is, it was for my Mom's brother, and m > SG> mom didn't know some of the people either... > > Not too uncommon. If you knew everyone, it'd mean he had a pretty boring li > ;) > > Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, > > Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a > Rx > Khephera > Huh.... Do you necessarily have to be Pagan to be a magick practicer? Oh. Wonderful. Hmmm... I need somebody to RSVP on those stones... I'm leaving thursday... ::frown:: ANd your right, if I did know everybody, it would be boring, unless, of course, you knew some dirt about'em... j/k. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 8 Aug 96 06:22:02 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq On Aug 07 09:09 96, Shadow Gryphon of 93:9087/0 wrote: SG> Huh.... Do you necessarily have to be Pagan to be a magick practicer? Oh Gods no.... There are many Christian, Jewish, and other "non-Pagan" Magickal systems. Enochian Magick is Christian. The Qabalah itself has Jewish origins (though many of us today Paganize it). There is Gnosticism, and so on and so forth. SG> Oh. Wonderful. Hmmm... I need somebody to RSVP on those stones... SG> I'm leaving thursday... ::frown:: Leaving? Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 8 Aug 96 11:16:26 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Khephera to Shadow Gryphon on Thu Aug 08 1996 06:22 am > Oh Gods no.... There are many Christian, Jewish, and other "non-Pagan" > Magickal systems. Enochian Magick is Christian. The Qabalah itself has Jew > origins (though many of us today Paganize it). There is Gnosticism, and so > and so forth. > > SG> Oh. Wonderful. Hmmm... I need somebody to RSVP on those stones... > SG> I'm leaving thursday... ::frown:: > > Leaving? Hmmm... Okay, to go a bit more philisophical (and have me not make it scary, will be the trick), does one necessarily needs be even christian-based or Jewish-based.... Rather, hmmm... WHat's that blasted word, can't think of it.... Means you don't really have a religion. ANyhoo, can you be one of those people and still practice magick fairly well...? And I'm not leaving permanently, just for the weekend. Family reunion (aka the Old-Foggies meeting, where I see a bunch of people I don't know) in West Virginia. Gotta pack today, then I gotsa clean, but before all this: make sure my BBSs are cool and then sleep! ANyhoo, I'm straying off-subject. Happens to one extremely tired from staying up later than normal. I'lll be back Sunday late, or early monday morn. Fly HIgh! -Gryphon 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 8 Aug 96 13:40:16 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq On Aug 08 11:16 96, Shadow Gryphon of 93:9087/0 wrote: >> Oh Gods no.... There are many Christian, Jewish, and other "non-Pagan" >> Magickal systems. Enochian Magick is Christian. The Qabalah itself has Jew >> origins (though many of us today Paganize it). There is Gnosticism, and so >> and so forth. SG> Hmmm... Okay, to go a bit more philisophical (and have me not make it SG> scary, will be the trick), does one necessarily need be even SG> christian-based or Jewish-based.... Rather, hmmm... WHat's that blasted SG> word, can't think of it.... Means you don't really have a religion. ANyhoo, SG> can you be one of those people and still practice magick fairly well...? I think what you are refering to is "Agnostic" or "Atheist". Just look at it this way: Magick is the Arte of calling upon the Power of the Self. There are, in fact, Atheist Magick users- let alone Agnostic. Wiccan Ceremonial Magick often does not call upon Deity to cast the Spells- instead relying on Raising and Directing Power. A kind of Ceremonial Form of WitchCraft. WitchCraft itself is often Deity-less. However, if you're going to work with a system that does use Spirits/Gods/Angels/etc, then you will have to learn to "suspend disbelief" in Them during Ceremonies. Perhaps, out of Circle, you can view Them as symbols- Archetypal Images constructed to visually embody various concepts and Energies- which you wish to work with in Ceremony. They are strictly parts of your own Mind and Soul. Then, in the Ceremony, you have to "forget" that you view Them as non-real, and work with Them as if They were as real as you or I. This is, in fact, how many many Ceremonialists work today. I don't personally like this. I happen to agree with the view- however I feel that these "Archetypal Images" in fact do posess Thier own Life and Personalities. I find that strictly viewing Them as "symbols" severly subtracts from my ability to "Enflame Myself with Prayer"- which is basically a form of Energy Raising. SG> off-subject. Happens to one extremely tired from staying up later than SG> normal. I'lll be back Sunday late, or early monday morn. See ya then. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 8 Aug 96 14:23:30 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Khephera to Shadow Gryphon on Thu Aug 08 1996 01:40 pm Hmmm... Interesting concept. I might have to simmer on that idear... Will do, I'll do my best to come back in one piece. :) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Sandirien Area: MagickNet To: All 9 Aug 96 01:57:42 Subject: Magick UpdReq agrh. Please quit saying "magick" at least from where i come from, you really don't need to say it. It seems to flamboyant. Why not just good ol' "magic"? simple. magick is just so irritating. And please explain chaos magick, crowley, and what he is about. So far as i know hes a very bad person. Please prove me wrong. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Sandirien 10 Aug 96 07:41:00 Subject: Magick UpdReq Sandiren - Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. 1) Not to be overly blunt, but it doesn't really matter whether magick is flamboyant where you come from. Those who use it (or even wierder alternates, which I will admit even bug me, such as majik, etc.) are referring to their particular take on how magic(k) works, its structures, etc. And sorry, but you don't get to dictate their speech patterns anymore than they get to dictate yours. 2) Chaos magick is a modern system, derived from some of Crowley's concepts, and more to the point the magical thought of Austin Spare. By its nature, you can't pin Chaos magick down to a single model or definition - it would be very chaotic if you could, now would it? (g) The mainstream of thought in Chaos magick is in the writings of Peter Carroll (Liber Null, Psychonaut, Liber Kaos), Frater UD (Practical Sigil Magick), Ray Sherwin (Theatre of Magick, and a new work whose title escapes me), and others. But salient points are... - no particular symvol set, mythos, religion, etc. is inherently more valid, real, accurate, or effective than any other. - any combination of symbols or stimuli which induce the desired state in the magician is useful in magick. - after formulating a combined symbol in magical work, magick seems to work best if the conscious mind lets go of the intention of the rite, and lets the unconscious carry on the work of bringing the result into manifestation. That's may take on it, anyway, the Chaos magicians hereabouts will doubtless et me straight if have mispoken their system. 3) No one is going to bother trying to prove you wrong about Crowley (or anything else). Since I don't know why you consider him to be a "very bad person" (wrong tense, since he died in 1947), whether this is based on a study of his own writings, or simply someone else's opinion that you are repeating, I wouldn't know where to begin to "prove you wrong" even if I were so inclined. I've studied the man's work for 25 years or so, and while he was certainly capable of being a real jerk as a person, as a magical thinker, his system is superb, dedicated to the liberty of each man and woman, and their pursuit of the Divine through the understanding of the Self on every level. If you want to justifiably argue how awful Crowley was and/or how bad his magick is, I'd need to know what you base it on, before I could decide if there was any basis for debate here. Love is the law, love under will. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Irv Koch Area: MagickNet To: Sandirien 10 Aug 96 19:22:36 Subject: Re: Magick UpdReq Sa> agrh. Please quit saying "magick" at least from where i come from, Sa> you really don't need to say it. It seems to flamboyant. Why not just Most people use it to distinguish it from stage magic. It's pretty standard on this net. Sa> good ol' "magic"? simple. magick is just so irritating. And please Then you're in trouble due to being badly outnumbered. Also, you might check with the sysop re what the official name is. Sa> explain chaos magick, crowley, and what he is about. So far as i know Sa> hes a very bad person. Please prove me wrong. Chaos magick I'm going to pass on. A. Crowley did a lot of stuff which got him bad publicity, deliberately, so he wouldn't be bothered by people other than he wanted. It worked TOO well. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: FireSpell 11 Aug 96 06:56:36 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq On Aug 06 23:07 96, FireSpell of 93:9806/0 wrote: K>> The main purpose of Ceremony (once all of the window-dressing has K>> been striped from it) is simply to involve the Self totally. It is a K>> way of centering your ENTIRE attention on one single goal- to the K>> total exclusion of all else. F> In my experience this is only ONE of the purposes of cerimony. Another F> fairly common purpose is to tap into pre-existing energy systems in the F> environment. Well, on the one hand, I could argue that my above-mentioned explanation is exactly HOW Ceremony does this. On the other, it could also be argued that concepts of pre-existing energy patterns in the enviroment are only a theory or interpretation. Many believe that it comes strictly from the Self. The only common factor among all of the interpretations of what Ceremony "does" is that it is a way of focusing oneself on the goal totally. ;) Of course, none of that says which *I* believe...but sometimes it's more fun that way. ;) K>> So, that's the run down on not just incense, but ALL Ritual K>> paraphenalia. Of course, there is more to it than that- but that is K>> the basics of it. F> Darn right there is more to it than that. Just for starters, "ritual F> paraphenalia" can build up a "magick charge" turning it into what is oftne F> called a "talismman". Once this happens, the iten has some real power of F> it's own in addition to anything it does for your emotional state. Perhaps...but that is only a theory. Again, some might argue that any "charge" felt in the object is actually within the Self. The object, in that view, is only the focus for the Mind. That would also explain why a skeptic can hold a Talisman and feel nothing, while a Wizard can hold it and be damned near burned... Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Ghost 11 Aug 96 07:02:40 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq On Aug 07 19:58 96, Ghost of 93:9200/15 wrote: >> You go and buy the scented oils, and put a couple of drops on a charcoal G> I use a small bowl [with optional water] with a candle below [this 'lamp' G> has a special name, but I don't know it]. or a piece of metal above a candle G> works fine, too. U could change the distance between heat and oil, it would G> smell purer than w/ a charcoal. I'll give this a try. Actually, I've long thought of puting a piece of aluminum or something over the coal and putting the oil on that...I just never did get around to doing it. ;) >> to anoint such candles in the desired scent of oil >> Although, in my experience, you won't get as strong a scent from that... G> it depends on your nose. it can get used to very fine amounts of the oils G> [or what ever]. True. But, I'm of the school of near-suffication with incense. ;) Really, I'm not that bad...but I do like a smoky atmosphere if I can achieve it... Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Pan 11 Aug 96 07:05:52 Subject: Re: words UpdReq On Aug 07 11:16 96, Pan of 93:9806/50 wrote: P> .. so .. what's the answer to the whole, divine, christ like, P> archtypical, indivisible, individual... P> ..love? You lost me.... Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 11 Aug 96 11:14:06 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq Gryphon - SG> Huh.... Do you necessarily have to be Pagan to be a magick practicer? Absolutely not. Some of the pivotal techqnies and systems of magick were created/written/practiced in a Judaic, Christian, or Islamic context. Nor need one work magick to be a Pagan. Some Neopagan sects combine the two organically (or even with fairly ragged spot welds showing (g)), but others, including most classical sects, made the distinction very clear. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718