From: Sinful Area: MagickNet To: John Machate 5 Jul 96 07:33:00 Subject: Re: Court Cases UpdReq -=> Quoting John Machate to Sinful <=- JM> My main source would be a Virgina bared Lawyer who is PResident of the JM> Coalition for Pagan Religios Rights. What is your mail address so I JM> can send you the case sources that I can get my hands on. JM> John it's Cindy Davis - R.R.2, Box 285, Peru, IN 46970 or you can email me at mystarwin@networkamerica.com, or here.... hard copy is nice tho, since we don't have a good printer yet. Thank you!!! that helps my peace of mind so much more than you could know. sinful 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Falcon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 5 Jul 96 11:37:50 Subject: revelations UpdReq K> Correlation is one thing. The assumption that it has to match exactly K> is incorrect. I never wrote it had. It may even be the contrary, but still it doesn't come out of nowhere. F>> perfectly right. Let's trash all the theory and build some nuclear F>> reactors without. K> We are speaking about Magick, not nuclear reactors. are you sure there is such a qualitative difference? why? F>> Sometimes, Khephera, sometimes your "Dogma" is necessary to harvest F>> results K> Total and utter Bull that shows me you have very little practical K> experience. haven't had such a good laugh for years. Khephera, I _did_ write you that whatever I write is not superfluous. Even those little "" around the word Dogma aren't. They are there because *you* called something Dogma. They are there because I wouldn't call it that way. Reread our mails and you will see that what you call "Dogma" could well be called magickal theory. And it is a fact that on certain magickal paths, you need your "Dogma", i.e. magickal theory, before you can even think about the practice. You cannot work in enochian without knowing a bunch about it. F>> later, sometimes _much_ later. You may know that something doesn't F>> give results now. But how do you know that it will _never_ do so? A F>> lot of K> Stupidity is often defined as doing the same thing time and time K> again- expecting different results. reread my mail. Khephera, a general hint: *Read* my mails. All of them. Try to understand the context, not only the lonely sentences. If you do so, you will see what I was refering to with the above sentence, namely that some things have a long way to go before reaching a goal. Science is a prime example, but do you know even a single magickal path that was not developed over time? Most of them had little effect in the start and grew in power as mistakes were cut out and other people contributed better ideas. Your idea of "works=right, doesn't work=wrong" applied to them - we would miss nearly everything that's called magick today. K> There is *nothing* in Magickal Practice that you have to do over and K> over again for it to work. wrong, wrong, thrice wrong. Have you ever read a single book about ceremonial magick? Huge parts of that path are all about doing things again and again. K> The only argument for your favor is Ritual Magick-which is designed to K> be done over long periods of time for long-term affects. "the only argument" and then referring to the prime western path. You really get me laughing today. K> Once again, you are attempting to apply Magickal practice with K> Scientific Theory- something that can not be done. oh, the great guru knows exactly what can be done and what can't. Khephera, there are people, *real* magickans, working on that front. Magick can learn from science as much as science can learn from magick. It is exactly that they _are_ different world-views that makes this exchange fertile. K> I am speaking of Magick here- the mental planes, not the "real world" K> of nuclear reactors. if your magick is on the mental planes only, it only encompasses a quarter of the world. I'd call that a failure. * Origin: MetaMagic (93:9200/3) SEEN-BY: 93/0 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2630/315 9000/0 2 6 8 9001/0 SEEN-BY: 9002/0 9004/0 9007/0 9009/0 9020/0 9040/0 9060/0 9070/0 9080/0 SEEN-BY: 9081/0 9082/0 9083/0 9084/0 9085/0 9086/0 9087/0 9088/0 9089/0 SEEN-BY: 9090/0 9100/0 9200/0 1 2 3 7 8 12 13 15 18 19 22 77 200 9280/0 SEEN-BY: 9300/0 9400/0 23 9410/0 9440/0 9600/0 6 9603/0 9605/0 9606/0 9607/0 SEEN-BY: 9608/0 9610/0 9620/0 9630/0 9650/0 9670/0 9680/0 9700/0 9800/0 SEEN-BY: 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Falcon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 5 Jul 96 11:36:52 Subject: words UpdReq K> And your point is? written in the next sentences. Why don't you read all of my mails before replying? It would stop a lot of useless traffic. K> You are totally correct. fine. Then my point has been made. * Origin: MetaMagic (93:9200/3) SEEN-BY: 93/0 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2630/315 9000/0 2 6 8 9001/0 SEEN-BY: 9002/0 9004/0 9007/0 9009/0 9020/0 9040/0 9060/0 9070/0 9080/0 SEEN-BY: 9081/0 9082/0 9083/0 9084/0 9085/0 9086/0 9087/0 9088/0 9089/0 SEEN-BY: 9090/0 9100/0 9200/0 1 2 3 7 8 12 13 15 18 19 22 77 200 9280/0 SEEN-BY: 9300/0 9400/0 23 9410/0 9440/0 9600/0 6 9603/0 9605/0 9606/0 9607/0 SEEN-BY: 9608/0 9610/0 9620/0 9630/0 9650/0 9670/0 9680/0 9700/0 9800/0 SEEN-BY: 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718