From:    Khephera                               Area: MagickNet
To:      Falcon                                  3 Jul 96 08:11:36
Subject: revelations                            UpdReq 

On Jul 01 10:29 96, Falcon of 93:9200/3 wrote:
K>> I'm not sure what you mean by "fit to the sources".
F> your subyective matter doesn't come out of nowhere. It's got sources, and 
F> there has to be some kind of correlation between the result and the 
sources. 
F> If there isn't then something is wrong.
Correlation is one thing.  The assumption that it has to match exactly is 
incorrect.  Suppose I have a source that describes the ArchAngel Michael as 
being bearded, having two wings, wearing white, and carrying a sword.  I 
summon Him, and see Him as having no beard, having six wings, wearing Gold, 
and carrying nothing.  This does not mean I did not get Michael.  This means 
that Michael appeared as He wished to appear to me- regardless of what the 
written source says.
K>> If you get no results, then you are doing something wrong.  If you do,
K>> then you are doing something right.  That's all there is to it-
K>> anything else is pure Dogma.
F> perfectly right. Let's trash all the theory and build some nuclear reactors 
F> without.
We are speaking about Magick, not nuclear reactors.
F> Sometimes, Khephera, sometimes your "Dogma" is necessary to harvest results 
Total and utter Bull that shows me you have very little practical experience.  
Dogma is a trap for those who read the books and never practice the 
techniques.  Dogma is a net for those who wish not to think.
F> later, sometimes _much_ later. You may know that something doesn't give 
F> results now. But how do you know that it will _never_ do so? A lot of 
Stupidity is often defined as doing the same thing time and time again- 
expecting different results.
If I do something (Magickally) and it doesn't work, that is because I have 
done something wrong.  I need to find my mistake (did I not Enflame myself 
with Prayer?, did I lose my concentration?).  There is *nothing* in Magickal 
Practice that you have to do over and over again for it to work.  The only 
argument for your favor is Ritual Magick- which is designed to be done over 
long periods of time for long-term affects.  However, you still know at each 
Working whether or not the Ritual is doing what it is supposed to do.
F> nowadays important fields in physics used to be thought of as a waste of 
F> time - if your first sentence had been applied to them, todays technology 
F> wouldn't exist. sorry, your wrong/right principle is intuitivly correct, 
but 
F> applied to the real world, it fails.
Once again, you are attempting to apply Magickal practice with Scientific 
Theory- something that can not be done.  I am speaking of Magick here- the 
mental planes, not the "real world" of nuclear reactors.
Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee,
Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a
Rx
Khephera


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From:    Khephera                               Area: MagickNet
To:      Falcon                                  3 Jul 96 08:21:24
Subject: words                                  UpdReq 

On Jul 01 10:42 96, Falcon of 93:9200/3 wrote:
F> I did not mark anything as wrong - and you know that I would not hesitate 
F> doing so if I thought it were. 
And your point is?
F> I only proposed to be careful with these 
F> things. Languages often _are_ connected, words get imported and exported. 
F> But in other cases a connection may seem to exist but there's really 
nothing 
F> there.
Exactly.  People often attempt to relate words etymologically based on 
similarity (like Lilith and Lailah, to continue with my own example)- but the 
truth is that the words have no historic relation at all.
F> Therefore, some caution should be used, plus the mage should be aware that 
F> probably he is constructing something. Perfectly ok, but one should _know_ 
F> which parts are one's own work and which ones are not.
You are totally correct.
Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee,
Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a
Rx
Khephera


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