From: Falcon Area: MagickNet To: Lady Sondrea 21 May 95 23:54:22 Subject: Meditation/OBE's UpdReq Greetings, Lady! 12 May 95 e.v. 21:07, Lady Sondrea wrote to All: LS> I NEED help please.....I have been working on meditation for two LS> years now...I really want to accomplish it, and move on to Astral LS> Projection... I haven't come any further than you, and I even have less experience... LS> But the problem I am having, is I don't know the LS> basics on how to start.. I do the deep breathing, but It's my LS> thoughts that I can not clear away, and when I do lay there for a LS> while, I just fall asleep and wake up the next morining... ...but I can probably help with some hints on this one. LS> Should LS> I stop working on it when I go to bed, and start working on it LS> during the day time? Just try starting your exercise something like one or two hours before you normally go to bed, and before you get tired. sign of chaos 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Falcon Area: MagickNet To: Doug Nelson 21 May 95 23:57:14 Subject: Meditation/OBE's UpdReq Greetings, Doug! 16 May 95 e.v. 15:33, Doug Nelson wrote to Lady Sondrea: DN> The best book that I know of for concentration and DN> visualization exercises is "Mind Games" by Master & Houston. The DN> forward says that their objective in writing the book is "to put DN> the first man on earth." :) I ordered that thing half a year ago, and still didn't receive it :-((( Anybody knows if it is still in print? sign of chaos 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wolvesbane Area: MagickNet To: Casper 23 May 95 09:45:50 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq C> for knoledge, some of them unfortunatly have had to learn what C> it's like to be unwanted, rejected and abused and all of them C> have learned again how to die. C> Ahhh....so you view this from a reincarnation stand-point. That they learned what they were supposed this incantation, and will return again someday to learn more? C> responsibility of living it. C> C> This is the truth as per Casper for what it's worth. (:D And just as valid as anyone else's truth....thanks for sharing with us! Peace.. Wolves 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wolvesbane Area: MagickNet To: Charles Miner 23 May 95 09:48:08 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq Shortened to save space... :) CM> novellete, but if you want me to go on, I'll start with CM> testamony about when CM> I became a Christian, what led up to it, my experience CM> in the black arts, then YES! This is all fascinating...do go on please... CM> put strait on a path CM> that they were having extreme trouble transversing, CM> these people have a higher CM> purpose that has not been yet met, and the death of a loved one or a baby CM> set them strait. Death is something unavoidable, it CM> completes our life, no CM> matter how grim, or wonderfull it was, and then we go CM> to a better place, I think Hmm...so thoe kids' deaths may have been for their parents' lives? As a sort of lesson..that is a little deep to fathom, but a definite possibility nonetheless... CM> Peace to you too, my friend, hope you didnt read your eyeballs out, CM> And till next time, as always... Nonono....didn't read my eyeballs out at all. Tis the whole reason I modem...to communicate and learn. Thanks! Peace... Wolves 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Charles Miner 24 May 95 00:19:36 Subject: Re: bombing victims Pvt UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Charles Miner zwan Lord Wart ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Re: bombing victims, n'qah? LW> We need to put this in perspective. Fewer people died in that LW> bombing than died in an average plane accident... and yet it is a LW> major news story? Only the fact that it is the latest in domestic LW> terrorism (or whatever label you subscribe to this week) makes it LW> "medializable". CM> CM> It all depends on the perspective that you are coming from, realy. CM> I was three blocks from the explosion on the south side... Actually, Lord Wart is inaccurate about how many people died. The final tally of 168 or so is greater than the number of people that can fit in most domestic airline flights. As if the number of people mattered a whit. Why then is the 50,000 a year total from car crashes not newsworthy? Pfah. --Kai Mactane. ... It ain't the end yet... not until the nuns start dancing... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Anaesthesia 24 May 95 00:13:32 Subject: Re: meditation/obe's Pvt UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Anaesthesia zwan Lady Sondrea ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Re: meditation/obe's, n'qah? An> I am hesitant to recommend using music -- if you want to experiment, An> be sure it is very minimal; it should have no lyrics, preferably only An> one instrument, and repetitive patterns. For a good example of some music that fits these parameters, may I suggest Steve Reich's "Six Marimbas"? It's very easy on the ears, and the patterns set up are very "foggy" ones that change slowly over time -- there's very little for the mind to fixate on. It may be found either in the New Age or Classical section of a record store. If you need to ask for help from an employee, it may help to say that Mr. Reich is a modern minimalist composer. (That is, "minimalism" is the name of the school of music that Mr. Reich favors.) --Kai MacTane. ... Freudian Virus: computer obsessed with its motherboard. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Disconnect 24 May 95 00:14:34 Subject: Re: meditation/obe's Pvt UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Disconnect zwan Anaesthesia ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Re: meditation/obe's, n'qah? Di> If you can get it (I don't know how world-wide the distribution is) Di> the first Enigma CD works fairly well for me.. (I forget exactly what Di> the title is - since they only have 2, do process of elimination and Di> don't get Cross of Changes ..) The title is "MCMXC a.d.", the year of its release (1990) expressed in Roman numerals. --Kai MacTane. ... Turn off the light...take a deep breath...and *relax*. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: Macfinn 24 May 95 16:34:36 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq -=> Quoting Macfinn to Charles Miner <=- Ma> Greetings O Vampish one, Many Happy greetings, right back at 'cha :) CM> ... and although I see the CM> work of the Pale Rider, CM> take his toll almost every day, I still have this deep CM> down belief that he can CM> be stopped, cold in his tracks. Ma> Nope, no Pale Rider, no "specter" of death; only stupidity, disease Ma> and old age. Perhaps the belief that I have in this is an inbreed defence system, to give death and evil an identity, therefore incresing the possibilities of confronting it and overcoming it. I have in the past had several incedents where these beliefs came in handy, and helped me confront, deal with, and over come. In the realm of death, I have no idea as to how many times I may have had a brush with, heck every time you wake up, or go to sleep, there remains the possibility that it will be your last, my most recent one would have been standing three blocks from a detination that was felt several miles away, and heard even further, you would think from that that I would not have any ear drums left, but I do, and there was the possibility that the bomb could have been bigger, and caused the building that I was in to be damaged as well, or there is even the worse one of all, a lot of people say it should have been the county court house, or that it was the intended target, that is a little scary, but other than that my most memerable brush with death, would have been when I was 16 and tried to kill myself, would have succeeded too, if someone wouldnt have got me out of the room (See my testemonial, being posted to "Wolvesbane" In the realm of evil, I have had many confrentations, I almost said "unfortunate", but I thought about it, and these experiences, even though some of them border horific, or hidious, have strenthened me, if you read my "testemonial" you'll find out about some of them, these and how I dealt with them, have helped me come to the conclusion of where my beliefs realy are. Ma> It really wasn't their time to die, CM> Here, possibly lies our first conflict, lets let each other believe CM> what one wants, I rest more confertable thinking that CM> the almighty has that CM> control, and that there is yet some undiscovered purpose behind this caos, CM> Yes my God might be a little sick in the head, in that Ma> Have you been listening to your wife? Say she hasn't brainwashed you. Yep, ya have too, I think, ya know the mariage thing, but try as she might have to brainwash me, and believe me she tried, she realy was never able to twist my already twisted beliefs :) She could not even support her own, I wish she could though, it would be a start in some direction. Although I love my wife dearly, I think that our beliefs were one of the big reasons that I decided that we should go our seperate ways, my faith and optimism only showed up her non-faith and pesimism, unfortunatly causing to much friction between us, but I knew that if her pesimism took me, then all would be lost. Ma> If it were the will of a god, and this is your implication ("has that Ma> control"), then he truely is a psycho. Bastion, what happened man? You Ma> know better than that "heavin or hell" load of dung, I know you do. Ma> Who/what has coerced you? CM> in order to save the In my own self analisis I have to wonder still about my beliefs, but it boils down to one thing my friend... (this is where you think I'm going to preach that Heavin and Hell, bull, but I'm not) I saw things, and felt things when I was young, there was pure LOVE and pure HATE, and in my heart I couold tag them both, in my youth I was very strong, in spirituality, and faith, that was a blind faith, there was not God, or entity with wich the credit could be given, I just believed. And the Grass was green, beutiful Green and the trees rubed together and created song, that fell upon my youthful ears, and the bumble bee's looked as if they would make cool pets, and the pups nuzled my nose and made me laugh, and it was neat to run around naked in the rain, it was cool to build tunnels underneth the snow, friends were the easest to make, death was so far away, but you still could see it, you could kiss your parents good night, and know without a dought that they would come and get the boogie man, if you needed assistance, and some were out there "God" was waching us, and everything was keen... while in the mist of being an abused child, by my parents and other individuals, while having that "atypical" child hood from hell, I could expirience all of that magic in my life. Perhaps all the bad just made the spotlight on the good shine brighter, But either way I want that back, and I know its within reach, so I gota have it. CM> world, his own son had to die a pretty nasty death, and Ma> See what I mean, human sacrifice dude. Messy god that demands blood. Yeah, I know, but when I was eight, and I was all by my self, and I asked this man, whom I called by name, Jesus Christ, to come into my life, you know the rutine... when I gave the blind faith thing a face and a name, something hit me, it was good, it made everthing even brighter for that little eight year old, who even then was out in the middle of a beutiful field, grass smeeling so strong that if I had alergies I would not be posting this message to you now, in the middle of a circle, that I had drawn just to isolate myself even further from the out side world, someone did take the invitation, and it was a feeling, that I'm not affraid to say was better than orgasm, my first bite of chocolate, or even Coca Cola. You can read about it in the Testemonial Novellete, being posted to "Wolvesbane". in this same echo in fact, hopefully the moderater when get to upset, although it all boils down to relevence with magic spells. CM> pits, per say. I belive that he designed us to be a CM> very powerfull creature, CM> giving us the ability to take life, as well as to give it, but he being CM> the ultimate one in control. Ma> Arrrrrgggg....we are in control of our own destinies. Ma> Should one, throw one's arms up, give up, go sit on top of a hill and Ma> just wait for whatever to happen, yealding to a diety to control what Ma> might happen?:/ What would happen is that you would die of exposure and Ma> dehydration. I have done almost exactly what you talked about here, once again, actualy several times, did I wonder out into a field, the woods, or just hide in a room or closet, or spend a day in the bathroom (Partialy enjoying the suspician that I was creating with my parents) and let lunch, supper, and the Muppet Show pass me by, a young pup bugging God, like a child persists on getting his way, the only thing in my case, is that even after starvation, exposure, and dehydration, although not to the point of death, I was granted what I desired. Please understand, that I have only fasted 2 or 3 times in my life, when I say starvation above, I mean that I let time slip by and after the request was granted I realized that I was hugery, and went and got something to eat, I think fasting, for religous reasons, is something that God frowns upon, he gets to much of a kick seeing that smile you get on your face when you indulge in a real nice steak dinner :) CM> I do believe that the "bomber" are those that are to blame, and they CM> will suffer punishment at the hand of almighty God, a punishment that we CM> as human beings can not phanthom, it will be, I can CM> think of no other word, CM> PERFECT, for what they did. But they chose to do this, CM> and they will face the CM> consequences. Ma> But you forget, there is no Hell, no eternal reward/punishment, no sin Ma> for that matter: Paradise / Haydes, Heaven / Hell, Pearly Gates / Lake of Fire... If I only had my religous texts here at the office I would post the names that the other religions refer to these places as... Perhaps the "evil ones" and the "Good ones" have set aside diferent resedence in the "other side", I have even posted and still believe that what we as humans define as Good and Bad, Love and Evil, might be in error, but I know that there is a difference, I saw "Demons" or for sake of defending my argument, lets say they were not "Demons" per say, just "entities from the spiritual realm, with a real bad additude, and a realy bad taste in personal hygene to go with it." These individuals, as they were, with they're own seperate personalities, came from a place that also harbors a bunch just like them, its a place, that all though I have not seen it, I think I'd rather not satisfy my curiosity , on the other hand I have seen the good guys in this matter, the dudes from the spiritual realm that just happen to be realy cool folks, some people call them angels, there are also those that shine thru folks that are in our physical realm, just as the bad ones show themselves thru idiots like the folks that killed almost 200 people not to long ago here in OKC. NO! I am not saying that the people who bombed the federal building were demon possesed, or that the devil made them do it, but I am saying that I believe in possesion. Ma> only action/reaction, cause and effect. Sooner or Ma> later, in this lifetime, it will catch up with them; the reaction for Ma> their action. As you recall, it all rather like Karma. It is not for me Ma> to say, how, when or where. It will take care of its own self,even if Ma> they get off and get away. Indeed, "full circle", I believe in this a hudrad percent, I just believe that that is the cycle with wich God does some of his work. Ma> Your mentality only breeds more hatred and Ma> violence, My mentality? Ma> "vengence is mine.."; this is the same sort of thinking that Ma> breed these types. The: "I was wronged/harmed by {insert blame of Ma> choice here}, now I'm gonna {insert violent action here}, so help me Ma> gawd; {Insert justification line here}, {insert verbal curse}." And Ma> then Bubba eggs 'em on further. I believe that vengence is something best left to God, like he said. I have certianly learned that one... you will hear about it someday. Ma> So best I can tell you, ground and center man. Let you mind be at Ma> ease, put it to rest. We can't turn back the clock, there is nothing Ma> we can do to prevent it. Madmen hellbent on action will find a means Ma> irregardless of laws, life, and resources. One day at a time, is all we Ma> can live. And today was a good one. I am trying my friend to put this thing behind me, but it has become an infection, that is starting to realy eat at me, part of it is that I think that it shouldnt, that its none of my business, but something that I used to love... the sound of a storm rolling in, is now something that I fear, I have not been scared in a long time, and it pains me that I am now, I think I'll find my self a field, go out there in the middle of it, draw me a circle, and let time pass on by, while I have a chat with a friend, that no one else can see, but me, I realy believe that will work, I'll tell ya about it later. Ma> =M= Ma> ! Origin: MacFinn's House of Dreams (93:9040/4) BASTIAN FALKOR :] PS If it does not work, I'll try the, running around naked in the rain thing, perhaps I should leave that one to myself though? :) ... Open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: Rainlake 24 May 95 16:51:52 Subject: Re: Christian theology UpdReq -=> Quoting Rainlake to Charles Miner <=- -> is my opinion that God takes people when it is there time, no man i -> of taking his or anyone elses life prematurly. It is my belief tha -> angels were called to duty on April the 19th, some were around 200 -> -> Those angels will help the following hold true, Ra> Interesting stuff--welcome to the echo! Thanks, for the welcome,, I wonder about the subject though, there should be a Bombing Discussion Echo, and we are starting to stray over into a subject here that fits more aproprietly in the Faith Echo. But I am building up to something here... Ra> From the perspective of a Wiccan who used to be into Christian Ra> theology professionally, though, just a couple of things: Ra> 1. Most Christian theologies do not see God as the Ra> author of death or (barring merciful intervention in rare Ra> circumstances) the one who decides when people will die, Hmm, In my Christian Teaching I have always been told that God is one who decides to take life, and to give it, I remember my Church Bus Teacher saying once that all things work towards God, and we should be thankfull for everything, she went on to even enphesis that we should thank God, even if the Bus we were in turned over and and hurt and killed some people, this she was explaining to a pre-teen, myself, as well as little 5 year olds, this as far as I am concerned was very, distatwful on her part, but it somes up what I believe the beliefs are supposed to run like according to 5 christian denominations that I know, word for word, I'll support this documentation if need be. Yikes! Ra> 2. Most Christian theologies don't believe people Ra> become angels when they die; they say people stay people, and that Ra> angels are a whole different order of creature. Indeed this is true... Ra> That's not to say *you* can't believe it...just that it's different Ra> from what Christians ordinarily claim as their doctrine. Thanks my friend :) Most "christians" do not know they're own doctrine, and I know with out a dought that if they did, they would find my beliefs to be way out in left field from they'res. :) Just Check out my posts to Wolvesbane and MacFinn on this echo, for more details on that. Ra> ! Origin: The Immortal Coil, Louisville Kentucky, U.S.A. (93:9190/3) Feel free to jump in any time, your two cents worth just happens to be a pot of gold to me :) Till then... Peace, Hugs, and Big Time Blessings, upon you. BASTIAN FALKOR :] ... "Could you continue your petty bickering? I find it most intriguing." 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: Wolvesbane 24 May 95 17:04:50 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq -=> Quoting Wolvesbane to Charles Miner <=- Wo> Shortened to save space... :) Indeed :) CM> novellete, but if you want me to go on, I'll start with CM> testamony about when CM> I became a Christian, what led up to it, my experience CM> in the black arts, then Wo> YES! This is all fascinating...do go on please... Look for it in the next message... CM> put strait on a path CM> that they were having extreme trouble transversing, CM> these people have a higher CM> purpose that has not been yet met, and the death of a loved one or a baby CM> set them strait. Wo> Hmm...so thoe kids' deaths may have been for their parents' lives? As Wo> a sort of lesson..that is a little deep to fathom, but a definite Wo> possibility nonetheless... Not as a lesson necaserily, that is not what I meant, but as a subtle adjustment, the example that I was speaking of was from my sister-in- laws situation... she has never said that she learned a lesson from her daughters death, but she has made mention that she changed in many ways for the better because of it. BTW she just let her daughter go this year, it been 6 years since she was taken away. CM> Peace to you too, my friend, hope you didnt read your eyeballs out, CM> And till next time, as always... Wo> Nonono....didn't read my eyeballs out at all. Tis the whole reason I Wo> modem...to communicate and learn. Thanks! Well sit back... Woops... first go to the bathroom, then get a Coke, maybe some Dorittos (Crunch all you want, they'll make more) :) , set the VCR to record your favorite show, now sit back, feel the blessings, that are being beamed your way :) and prepair yourself for a long story, spelling errors and all. Wo> Peace... Wo> Wolves Peace, Hugs, and Big Time Blessings... Gosh I'm persistant, ;) BASTIAN FALKOR :] Self Appointed Page Master of the Never Ending Story Wo> -!- Maximus 2.02 Wo> ! Origin: MacFinn's House of Dreams (93:9040/4) ... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Macfinn Area: MagickNet To: Charles Miner 24 May 95 21:21:24 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq So much txt to sort thru, so little time (and space)... CM> but it boils down to one thing my friend... (this is CM> where you think I'm going CM> to preach that Heavin and Hell, bull, but I'm not) I saw things, and felt CM> things when I was young, there was pure LOVE and pure CM> HATE, and in my heart Look at something, in this light; hatred is ignorance and love is understanding. When folks hate it is because they do not understand, comprehend, or choose not to. CM> that was a blind faith "Blind faith" again is (no offence) ignorance. Can't just turn the keys over to someone you don't know. CM> child, by my parents and other individuals, while having that "atypical" CM> child hood from hell, I could expirience all of that magic in my life. You, me and millions of others as well. So what, this is nothing new, folks have been abusing thier kids for eons; and up till the 70's it was quite the norm in society to beat your kid to death, there is even a biblical command to "stone" a child that is out of line. But, we are adults now and we control our live, not our parents; as an adult you should be over it already and should have learned to be just the opposite of what they are/were. This is growth, can't sit and stew in the past man, gotta get on with life. CM> Yeah, I know, but when I was eight, and I was all by my self, and CM> I asked this man, whom I called by name, Jesus Christ, to come into CM> my life, you know the rutine... when I gave the blind CM> faith thing a face and CM> a name, something hit me, it was good, it made everthing even brighter for It's called haveing a scapegoat; someone else to lay all the blame for all your mistakes upon. Of course there is this emotional release, afterall you no longer have to deal with your "sins". And this is why one feels better, I've been there, most Pagans have at one point in their life. But the reality is, you can't lay you blame upon another forever and get away with it. Rememer, in your words, "full circle". And you might also note, no one by the name of Jesus Christ was crucified. The man's name was Yeshua Ben Yusef (Joshua son of Joseph in English). With that in mind, it may have just as well been Leroy. CM> Paradise / Haydes, Heaven / Hell, Pearly Gates / Lake of Fire... CM> If I only had my religous texts here at the office I would post the names CM> that the other religions refer to these places as... CM> Perhaps the "evil ones" CM> and the "Good ones" have set aside diferent resedence in the "other side", CM> I have even posted and still believe that what we as humans define as Good CM> and Bad, Love and Evil, might be in error, but I know that there is a Reality is, there is no heavin or hell. Not in the context that you think that there is. There are other beings in other dimentions and other dimensional forms, but they are not god/demi-god/diving beings of any biblical perspective. These I have seen and been to. And some of these places, while they might be quite gawd awefull, are not heavin or hell, or an afterlife. There are no "good ones" "evil ones", no polarisation, just life and the universe is teaming with it on a multidimensional level. The biblical Heavin/Hell system was set up inorder to emotionally strike fear into the hearts of men in order to control them, simple psychology actually - punishment/reward, works with even the lowest forms of life and is how one trains one's dog. Now onto reality. (Not a lecture, not to be taken as such). Why a God alone, in a singular patriarchal sense that you use so often? Why not Goddess as well? Was it your father who nurtured you for nine months in a womb? Not on this planet, it was you mother. Why then do you deny/reject her Her rightfull divinity? To deny Goddess is to deny the womb, and is to deny -self-, for without which none of could have ever been born. Dad's role is like, well 2 mins of pleasure, and I'm outa there; while mom's is 9 months of excess baggage and hours of pain, to be ripped open. So the male role, while needed, is less nurturing and fulfilling. If you're gonna worship YWH, at least acknoweledge his Lady and Consort in the guise of Ashera. And onto other things, the "scapegoat" principle may work for a while, may work for a lifetime or two for that matter; but sooner or later reality dictates that one must accept the consiquences for one's own actions and life, and when that happens, "scapegoats, mashias, saviours, prophets, holymen, gods" fail. And when that happens, it will shatter your "blind faith" and you will have only self to answer to. In the end, sooner or later you find out that youtare your own salvation and that your actions affect your own psyche and that of those around you. Scapegoats are good, emotionally, for a while anyway. Anyway, I really hate to sound or come off as "preachy", really not my intent at all, nor is it my intent to belittle you faith or offend in anyway; I hope you know me better than that. Just presenting you with some alternate details for your consideration. I know you fear "death", I have read it in your post, but if your "faith" were complete and based upon something other then emotion or speculation you would be at ease with death, knowing that it is not the end of life, but only a milestone in life. =M= 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718