From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: Wolvesbane 17 May 95 23:40:06 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq -=> Quoting Wolvesbane to Charles Miner <=- CM> First of all, could you post the # to MacFinn's House CM> of Dreams, I have not CM> visited there in a while, lost the number, if its private now, talk to Wo> You bet...787-2374 Thanks a billion, I can hardly wait to call MacFinn, like I said its been a while. CM> I am Christian, but I am one of the few that believes CM> that there is merit in CM> the Wiccain beliefs, I believe that Jesus basicly CM> said so, and if we ever CM> get a chance to read all the written words of Christ CM> it would be pointadly Wo> Wow..this is the first time I have ever heard this from a Christian! Wo> :) Well my dear Wolvesbane, I am glad to be the first, but there is a little secret to be told here... You see, if the Christian establishments were to catagorize me by my beliefs, they would place me some were in between Pagan, and Satansit, but far be it from me to allow some pious preacher, claiming to be a diplomat of God, to judge me, I'll leave that up to the boss man himself, he seems to be pleased so far :) You may ask why "Satanist", well becuase I was once toaght, not in Satanic ways, but in the darker side, of lets say, "The Force". Most of the Christian establishments, believe in a "once a Satanist, always a Satanist" policy, ironicly stating in the same breath almost that they're sin have been washed away, [In a Tom Parks, sales pitch voice] "and yours can be too", thay might say it, but they certianly dont mean it. I have been involved in many religions, raised, Southern Baptist, one weekend, Pentacostal the next, up to the age of 16, cept for the two years of special teaching, mentioned above, when I was 17 I attended a Nazerene church and when I got to college it was a choice to attend a Church of god of Prophesy, wich led to me being appointed youth minister, and then, after moving back to the city, Drama Director, in one of that denominations largest congegations. It was a huge dispute between myself and a certian "Key" member of that congregation (Whom owns all of the Hobby Lobbies in the world) that cuased me to leave that denomination, I started attending another Nazzerene church, until one of they're "key" members announced to me, while we were alone, that he was gay, wich I had no real big deal with, I'm Bi, until he raped me. So that pretty much did me in for a while, I forgave everyone, but all things said and done, I basicly let go of RELIGION... ... But I held on to my spiritualality, I still studied, not just the bible, but every religious text I could get my hands on, A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT! I still meditated, and I practiced my spells, and magick, I cept in touch with my spirit guide as well as spending personal time, and offering sacrifices to GOD, but I started questioning my beliefs, becuase of what I had been taught, that most of what I was doing, meant that I was not a Christian... Before I go on, I'll stop here, since I've almost already wrote a novellete, but if you want me to go on, I'll start with testamony about when I became a Christian, what led up to it, my experience in the black arts, then how I cam to the conclusion that I am still a Christian. CM> ...many angels were called to duty on April the 19th, some CM> where around 200 of them. Wo> But, why only let some of those children live a few years? They Wo> learned hardly anything in life... It is hard to say, why God takes babies, in they're innoscence and without living a life, but I know he does, and they're is allways a devine reason for it, or so I believe, I have seen many people put strait on a path that they were having extreme trouble transversing, these people have a higher purpose that has not been yet met, and the death of a loved one or a baby set them strait. Death is something unavoidable, it completes our life, no matter how grim, or wonderfull it was, and then we go to a better place, I think for the babies, who viewed the world every day as a new and bright place, and if they could contort there faces just right, and they always had a full tummy, and mommy was near buy, they would smile constantly, they made a transition, to a place were they will never ever have to contort thy're faces to make a frown. In a way I am happy for them, but I weep every time I think of them and thy're parents, just as well as the adults that were killed in the explosion I weep, just like I am doing now for the guy who I drove hospital to hospital to see if that Jane Doe was his wife, becuase he got his secret wish, she was killed, instantly, she didnt suffer. But I know that for some reason, that we as human beings can never and will never understand completly, God decided to take them that day, and I know that they are in a good place now. Wo> Peace Wo> Wolvesbane Peace to you too, my friend, hope you didnt read your eyeballs out, And till next time, as always... Peace (you can never have enough of it) Hugs, and Big Time Blessings, upon you. BASTIAN FALKOR :] Wo> -!- Maximus 2.02 Wo> ! Origin: MacFinn's House of Dreams (93:9040/4) ... Reality-ometer: [\........] Hmmph! Thought so... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: Macfinn 18 May 95 00:26:26 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq -=> Quoting Macfinn to Wolvesbane <=- BASTIAN FALKOR breaking in here, :) First of all, hello old friend, and "half-mentore". Blessings be on you and this conversation. Such sad circumstances that bring us back together. W> But, why only let some of those children live a few W> years? They learned hardly anything in life... Ma> Gotta understand this, it was not a divine act, action or inaction Ma> that caused the bombing. It was the act of a few men filled with Ma> hatred. This I have trouble with, although it was terrable that those people and babies were taken early, therefore cuasing suffering and pain to they're families and loved ones, death is an enevatable thing, it has taken me a long time to come to this conclusion, and I still have a problem with it, possibly contradicting my self there :( I hate death, even if it comes to some one who is suffering, some how I think that they can be fixed and live happy and healthy for ever, and although I see the work of the Pale Rider, take his toll almost every day, I still have this deep down belief that he can be stopped, cold in his tracks. Recently I have thought though, to accept death as this... A passege rite, but does that limit us to dying as our only ticket into the spiritual realm, I have yet to learn. I think God wants me to, as well. Ma> It really wasn't their time to die, Here, possibly lies our first conflict, lets let each other believe what one wants, I rest more confertable thinking that the almighty has that control, and that there is yet some undiscovered purpose behind this caos, Yes my God might be a little sick in the head, in that in order to save the world, his own son had to die a pretty nasty death, and now this type of thing, and wars, and the like, I think he gives us the right to make our own decisions, and if we act on the good we are rewarded, in life and then after death, and if we act on hatred such as those individual involved in this, we dig our own pits, per say. I belive that he designed us to be a very powerfull creature, giving us the ability to take life, as well as to give it, but he being the ultimate one in control. Ma> I and a circle of others Ma> have felt that they haven't even passed over the bridge yet and are Ma> not even aware that they are dead. I can jive with you here, I believe that there is an "in between place" if you will, and people there could be both confused, and/or even suffering, from being lost, I still do not uderstand this completly though. Ma>It's not a matter of let, or allow; Ma> they had no real choice (being children) at all and it was not their Ma> will but the will of their guardians that placed them there (this is Ma> not to blame) and the will of the bombers (herein lies the blame). I do believe that the "bomber" are those that are to blame, and they will suffer punishment at the hand of almighty God, a punishment that we as human beings can not phanthom, it will be, I can think of no other word, PERFECT, for what they did. But they chose to do this, and they will face the consequences. Ma> As I Ma> have told others, it was a Magickal act, it was afterall by Crowley's Ma> def. an act of will to cause change, and an extremely hate filled act Ma> of magick at that; react accordingly, mirror it back to 'whomever', Ma> ground it, send it to chaos or oblivion. Psychic self defence man, use Ma> what you know. Ma> =M= Many people, who call themselves Christians, had there faith, put to the test, many people who call themselves Wicca and proclaim peace thru and thru, had they're faith put to the test, it would be very easy for hate to slip in and take over, or worse yet to plant its self in a hidden part of us, and grow into a haneous thing that would take us over. We have to channel this out, completly expunge hate, and as you mentioned above "... use what you know." is just about as good as it gets. I may proclaim myself as a Christian my dear MacFinn, but I still believe, that if its not broke, it does not need to be fixed :) so if it works with you, please go on. Ma> ! Origin: MacFinn's House of Dreams (93:9040/4) As always my friend, Peace, Hugs, and Big Time Blessing, upon you. BASTIAN FALKOR :] ... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: White Spider 18 May 95 00:58:08 Subject: Re: Re : Bombing Victims UpdReq -=> Quoting White Spider to Thomas Izaguirre <=- BF> I Overheard White Spider,who overheard Thomas Izaguirre Whispering To Bard! TI> I was dismayed by the media's kneejerk assumption that like the TI> stereotypical scapegoat black men have become for horrible TI> crimes, Islam was blamed. Now, not surprisingly, it turns out WS> I don't know what the sources were in Wisconsin, who blamed Islam for WS> the bombing. To get a feel of what the out of state folk were getting... I called my mother in St. Louis, Missouri to tell here I was OK, this was just about and hour and a half after the bomb went off, and she had just heard on the radio that a major explosion had happened in OKC and that there had been extensive damage to a building that usualy had about 500 people in it, it did not even cross her mind, being that she figured I would not be in a building with 500 people in it, she freaked out when she found out that I was 3 blocks from "ground zero" and there had been damage in my condos 10 blocks away, west. She had heard that there was a great possability that it was a terrorist act and that a "middle eastern" country was most likly to blame. WS> I DO know, that someone called in, soon after the WS> bombing, in the OKC area, CLAIMING to be with "The Nation of WS> Islam"...and claiming responsibility for the bombing. (hrmph!) Takes WS> all kinds, I guess. The sad thing is, my dearest White Spider, that the people calling in saying that they were "The Nation of Islam" might have been some kids, or some adults acting like kids. Terrorist Organizations from Islamic nations, do not call the receptionast desk, or the media to make a bomb threat or claim responsability, they know the "unlisted" "red phone" numbers to key people in the Pentagon, or the White House, and they contact those people, not people who everyone else would call, at least not typicaly, there could always be a first. :( WS> After working with some of the victims, and some WS> of the rescuers, and seeing the pain inflicted by this disaster, it WS> would be VERY easy to want to point fingers and say, "This group did WS> it...." or "That group did it". Because when horrified to this WS> magnitude, we HAVE to have someone....something....ANYTHING...to WS> "blame". Unfortunatly, it is also very is to, when pointing a fingure to begin to feel hate, we can not let this happen. WS> There were actually some folks in OKC who posted (not in this net) WS> that the disaster was "a visitation of God, in judgement of an evil WS> nation"....made me sick to read that. Me too, and that made hate come in a little bit stronger. I cant believe that people are soliciting from this disaster, they are selling copies of the news cast that was going on, to people who just want to watch and gock, who actually claim to be into that stuff! And how bout the tabloids, AHHHHHH!!! pictures of the little babies and individuals that were killed in the disaster, I cant believe it, I just can not believe that they would do this stuff. Anger builds up in me every time, and I think to my self I cant do this, cause, I can already feel the want to hurt someone, something, or even myself, and that is were it gets dangerous, that is why we have to come together, there is strenth in numbers, and we got 'em here in OKC :) WS> We now know, of course, that Islam was NOT involved with the bombing, WS> but rather some of the folks associated with various paramilitary WS> groups. They "hate the government"....heck. Our government does many WS> things with which I do not agree, but I don't voice my displeasure by WS> blowing up buildings. Amen! WS> I can't explain, nor understand the mentality WS> of ANYONE who could do something so heinous....but then, I don't have WS> to. I have TRIED to make some sense of this, but there is none. No WS> reason...no rationale...no logic. Just someone wanting to impose as WS> much pain and terror as humanly possible...and to that degree, they WS> partially succeeded. WS> But, living in Oklahoma (about 25 minutes from ground zero), I have WS> seen all of us pulling together....helping one another....caring for WS> each other, in such a way that is gratifying and comforting to me. I WS> am just grieved that it took THIS, to bring out what was always there, WS> in most of us. WS> It is my sincere desire to see justice in this disaster. WS> Unfortunately, I do not think that the "perpetrators" were limited to WS> the two suspects now in custody. I have a gut feeling that perhaps, WS> dozens were involved. Well, they will have to live with themselves. WS> Justice, healing, closure, peace....they're all words that have become WS> a GREAT portion of Oklahoman's vocabulary in the past few weeks. May WS> we find them fulfilled. WS> White Spider WS> I think more than the bombing, and the hate that was used to issue this disaster, it was not the disaster that drew everyones eyes to OK City... You will recognize this lyric and for all those out of staters who dont recognize it, it is from a little song that advertises OK City... ... Plenty of room for every one, a good place to work, a good place to have fun, its a wonderfull life, in Oklahoma City... Our State tags still say Oklahoma, is OK, Love put OK City on the map. BASTIAN FALKOR :] ... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Macfinn Area: MagickNet To: Charles Miner 18 May 95 23:01:12 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq Greetings O Vampish one, CM> it, possibly contradicting my self there :( I hate death, even if it comes CM> to some one who is suffering, some how I think that they can be fixed and CM> live happy and healthy for ever, and although I see the CM> work of the Pale Rider, CM> take his toll almost every day, I still have this deep CM> down belief that he can CM> be stopped, cold in his tracks. Nope, no Pale Rider, no "specter" of death; only stupidity, disease and old age. Ma> It really wasn't their time to die, CM> Here, possibly lies our first conflict, lets let each other believe CM> what one wants, I rest more confertable thinking that CM> the almighty has that CM> control, and that there is yet some undiscovered purpose behind this caos, CM> Yes my God might be a little sick in the head, in that Have you been listening to your wife? Say she hasn't brainwashed you. If it were the will of a god, and this is your implication ("has that control"), then he truely is a psycho. Bastion, what happened man? You know better than that "heavin or hell" load of dung, I know you do. Who/what has coerced you? CM> in order to save the CM> world, his own son had to die a pretty nasty death, and See what I mean, human sacrifice dude. Messy god that demands blood. CM> pits, per say. I belive that he designed us to be a CM> very powerfull creature, CM> giving us the ability to take life, as well as to give it, but he being CM> the ultimate one in control. Arrrrrgggg....we are in control of our own destinies. Should one, throw one's arms up, give up, go sit on top of a hill and just wait for whatever to happen, yealding to a diety to control what might happen?:/ What would happen is that you would die of exposure and dehydration. CM> I do believe that the "bomber" are those that are to blame, and they CM> will suffer punishment at the hand of almighty God, a punishment that we CM> as human beings can not phanthom, it will be, I can CM> think of no other word, CM> PERFECT, for what they did. But they chose to do this, CM> and they will face the CM> consequences. But you forget, there is no Hell, no eternal reward/punishment, no sin for that matter: only action/reaction, cause and effect. Sooner or later, in this lifetime, it will catch up with them; the reaction for their action. As you recall, it all rather like Karma. It is not for me to say, how, when or where. It will take care of its own self,even if they get off and get away. Your mentality only breeds more hatred and violence, "vengence is mine.."; this is the same sort of thinking that breed these types. The: "I was wronged/harmed by {insert blame of choice here}, now I'm gonna {insert violent action here}, so help me gawd; {Insert justification line here}, {insert verbal curse}." And then Bubba eggs 'em on further. So best I can tell you, ground and center man. Let you mind be at ease, put it to rest. We can't turn back the clock, there is nothing we can do to prevent it. Madmen hellbent on action will find a means irregardless of laws, life, and resources. One day at a time, is all we can live. And today was a good one. =M= 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Disconnect Area: MagickNet To: Anaesthesia 17 May 95 18:22:28 Subject: Re: Meditation/OBE's UpdReq |---|Anaesthesia babbled something about Re: Meditation/OBE's on 9796.43: |and should not meditate while lying down. I find that both the bed I usually meditate lying flat on my back, with my hands folded over my chest. (Since I sleep on my side, I rarely fall asleep in this position - although it sometimes happens :) ..) |appear. I am hesitant to recommend using music -- if you want to |experiment, be sure it is very minimal; it should have no lyrics, |preferably only one instrument, and repetitive patterns. |-------------------------------------| If you can get it (I don't know how world-wide the distribution is) the first Enigma CD works fairly well for me.. (I forget exactly what the title is - since they only have 2, do process of elimination and don't get Cross of Changes ..) If you succeed be sure to drop in and say hi! |16|09.-==---|14Disconnect|09----==-. ... If at first you don't succeed, call it Ver 1.0 --- * TLX v4.10 * ~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718