From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Lewis Cypher 9 May 95 17:49:00 Subject: magick w/o expectations UpdReq Hi Lewis! Here's the replies that went astray. I'm theorizing that someone, somewhere has put a line limit on messages, and chopped them smaller. My other hypothesis is that the upload software is assuming duplicate subject-headers are duplicate messages, and trashed the second and third with the same subject. So each has a different not-very- descriptive title. (Of course, if the ideas don't work then probably a couple of these will go astray too. ) Thus said Lewis Cypher to Josh Norton concerning Astrology & Ritual 2/2: [re: constraining spirits to manifest in a particular manner] JN> There is a problem with making such decisions however, in that a decision to JN> have a manifestation in a particular form causes the automatic JN> exclusion of many other possible manifestations, many of which JN> might be more useful than the form you chose. LC> Really? Could you give me some example from your own work? This one is much easier to answer. I don't know how familiar you are with John Dee's "Enochian" magickal system, so I'll give a little background. The system consists of 48 "Calls" or invocations in an "angelic" language, which are remarkably effective and potent. There are also four 12-by-13 "tablets" or letter grids, from which various divine and angelic names can be derived. Each letter is said to represent a magickal force (or forces) determined by its place in a tablet. A system of attributes for the squares of the tablets was developed in the 18th century. A 19th-century magickal group called the Golden Dawn developed a standardized method of astrally exploring individual squares using those attributes. This involves creating an astral pyramid with the astrological and elemental attributes of the square displayed on its four sides, and then invoking the force of an angel into the pyramid. About 10 years ago, I decided to do a systematic exploration of one of the Enochian tablets. For the first series of visions, I used the Golden Dawn's standard method. The results were interesting, and for the most part entirely fitting with what one would expect given the assumed attributes of the squares. But in reviewing the record after the series was complete, it became apparent to me that the angels had been trying to break out of the constraints placed upon their manifestation by the Golden Dawn method. Their were continuous undercurrents in the visions of things not within the confines of the standard attributes; mostly manifestations of the outer planets Uranus and Pluto. For the next series of visions, I decided to abandon the G.D. method, and simply invoke the angels (a different set, this time), asking that they reveal their nature and connections in their own way, disregarding my expectations and desires. I hoped that this would allow them to present whatever was trying (and failing) to get through during the previous set. The results were entirely surprising, much more useful, and much wider in scope than the first set. Within the context of the "official" visions, the angels in question not only revealed their individual natures, but also presented (over a period of a couple of months) a self-consistent mythology of human evolution, depicting it as the eternal contest between the gods Set and Horus. They also managed to tie in a lot of personal stuff that raised my self-comprehension by an order of magnitude. Outside the official visions, they also revealed to me a method by which any one of the four Enochian Tablets could be used to create an astral temple of incredible power, embodying the forces of all the tablet's angels in a single 3-D structure. This was completely out of the blue, and is without precedent in any previous Enochian works that I know of. It is one of the few truly new developments in Enochian magick since the system was first given to Dee four hundred years ago. So you can see that I profited greatly by not allowing my expectations to get in the way of the manifestation. The fallout from those workings is still coming today. A year or so ago, a lot of interim work fell into place, and I found myself in possession of a new system of attributes for the Tablets to replace the 17th-century system. The new system is much more consistent with other, non-enochian ways of describing the magickal universe, and eliminates all of the problems with the older system. ... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ... --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 102/943 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2000/11 9000/0 2 6 8 10 SEEN-BY: 9005/0 9007/0 9008/0 9009/0 9010/0 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 SEEN-BY: 9070/0 9080/0 2 4 6 7 10 20 9081/0 9083/0 9084/0 9090/0 9100/0 SEEN-BY: 9200/0 9300/0 9400/0 3 23 9410/0 9420/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 6 7 SEEN-BY: 9601/0 9603/0 9605/0 9608/0 9609/0 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 SEEN-BY: 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Lewis Cypher 9 May 95 17:49:00 Subject: free manifestations UpdReq LC> What do you do LC> in your head to 'allow' a manifestation to take its own place Hmmm....The specific mindset I use with the Enochian spirits would probably be a bad idea in dealing with the spirits of the Lesser Key, if you really believe that they are evil in nature. But I wouldn't see any problem using it with spirits of the Greater Key. Factoring out the major elements, I come up with these: -- First, you have to have a complete trust in the benefici*ence of the spirits with whom your are dealing, a trust so complete that there is no room in you for fear of any sort. Note that this trust isn't a matter of experience; it is a "act of will". You should have it the first time you contact a spirit as much as at any later time. By doing so, you actually create the conditions in which the trust is justified. -- Next, you have to eliminate any attitude of authority or power over the spirits in question, and also eliminate any attitude of being less than they are. You have to approach them as beings with their own individual natures, and as much right to live according to their natures as you have to live according to your own. Force or coercion should never enter into your relationships with them, in either direction; you are free individuals associating by choice. -- It also helps if you can feel an sense of unconditional love towards the beings. Getting rid of subconscious expectations is a more difficult matter, although the attitudes above will work their way downwards eventually. For me, it was a matter of training myself to habitually suspend any judgment or evaluation about magickal events until after they were over. While they are happening, you need to be in a state of mind where things are totally free to come into and out of your awareness without your trying to influence them. It's a delicate balancing act, and there's not much you can do to help it along except practice, practice, practice. ... AHIHVH: Any High Initiation Has Value Here. --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 102/943 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2000/11 9000/0 2 6 8 10 SEEN-BY: 9005/0 9007/0 9008/0 9009/0 9010/0 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 SEEN-BY: 9070/0 9080/0 2 4 6 7 10 20 9081/0 9083/0 9084/0 9090/0 9100/0 SEEN-BY: 9200/0 9300/0 9400/0 3 23 9410/0 9420/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 6 7 SEEN-BY: 9601/0 9603/0 9605/0 9608/0 9609/0 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 SEEN-BY: 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Lewis Cypher 9 May 95 17:49:00 Subject: overloads & symbols UpdReq LC> LC> part 4 of 4 parts LC> LC> One idea I am practicing is allowing enough protection to be present that LC> repeat of the overload experience of the first rite will not occure. Since I always work without protections, I can't really comment on that aspect. I find that the overload that might occur from a single ceremony isn't enough to do me any damage, and cumulative overloads are easily handled by stopping work for a while. LC> I have recently conjered a air elemental to visible appearance to LC> practice a more detached method of getting my visualizations. It was LC> nice but not very useful. Now I am not so sure. Are you saying that LC> the form he elemental assumed to me was important? I have been given LC> several symbols by various Celestial Intelligences, like from Sun, LC> Moon, and Jupiter. Now the whole idea of the form the Intelligence LC> assumes in my mind has significance. Is there something of this you LC> would like share with me from your own practice? Examples would be LC> most reassuring to me. Ideally, every aspect of a spirit's appearance should say something about its nature. It's a sort of automatic check on how well you are doing. If you aren't using one of the formal systems for evaluating their appearance, they will usually take forms from your own mind. For instance, in my personal symbols, planet-related spirits will usually show part of their nature in their apparent age, a la Shakespeare's "Seven Ages of Man". A spirit of Saturn from the Enochian tablets will typically show up for me as an old, bearded man holding a book in the crook of one arm (references to Saturn as Old Age, and as Knowledge). The elemental attribute of the tablet will show in the color of his robe, and the elemental attribute of the Lesser Angle in the color of his lower legs and feet. If the spirit is from one of the God- names in the Tablet, then he will be seated upon a throne; otherwise he will be standing. You can take this sort of thing a lot further than I usually do. The Golden Dawn had a whole system based on the typical appearances associated with the zodiac signs by astrologers, with many additions for other possible elements. And some, like the goetic and the Abra-Melin spirits have specific appearances associated with them. Suffice to say that if their appearance doesn't fit the nature of the forces you invoked, then you've probably screwed up a bit. ... Oh, no! He's channelling a smurf! --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 102/943 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2000/11 9000/0 2 6 8 10 SEEN-BY: 9005/0 9007/0 9008/0 9009/0 9010/0 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 SEEN-BY: 9070/0 9080/0 2 4 6 7 10 20 9081/0 9083/0 9084/0 9090/0 9100/0 SEEN-BY: 9200/0 9300/0 9400/0 3 23 9410/0 9420/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 6 7 SEEN-BY: 9601/0 9603/0 9605/0 9608/0 9609/0 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 SEEN-BY: 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Lewis Cypher 9 May 95 17:49:00 Subject: innate limitations UpdReq JN> Eventually you reach a point where no matter how much freedom you give the LC> communicating spirits, that which is communicated is entirely a LC> reflection of your own being, in the sense that nothing came come LC> through that is not in concordance with your own essential nature as an LC> individual. Realizing this, one can take the position that what you LC> see is all there is; this is the view of the classic "Black magician". LC> Or one can accept the basic vacuity of all knowledge and perception, LC> and pass into the "abyss". LC> I find that in my scrying and work with Tarot, both for about 22 years now, LC> the real skill is in interpreting the mind's eye sysmbols as external LC> to the Self type events. In other words, the images of what will be LC> come to me in symbols of my own reference. Is this kind of what you LC> mean above "that nothing came come through that is not in concordance LC> with your own essential nature as an individual?" Nooo....not exactly. It's something a bit subtler. Unless you choose to memorize and use some reasonably comprehensive formal system of symbols (really a good idea), spirits will always use symbols that are at least partially comprehensible to you. But if what they are trying to say is beyond your current experience, a lot of it will not show up during the session at all, but will only appear later after your mind has had time to adapt. The simple fact that we are each a finite being means that there are a myriad of aspects of existence that simply don't register on our consciousness at all. We are "microcosms" in the sense that each of us contains a reflections of all the powers in the world. But in ourselves those powers are in a relatively fixed relationship to each other; that relationship defines what we are as individuals. Whereas in the world their relationship is constantly changing. We only see those aspects that happen to resonate with our own nature along some dimension. LC> Or is it the Temple LC> Of Set idea of the individual emerging from the muck of creation which LC> is closer to your reference? Haw, Haw! No, those silly boys limit themselves too much for my tastes. ... I'm making it up as I go along. --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 102/943 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2000/11 9000/0 2 6 8 10 SEEN-BY: 9005/0 9007/0 9008/0 9009/0 9010/0 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 SEEN-BY: 9070/0 9080/0 2 4 6 7 10 20 9081/0 9083/0 9084/0 9090/0 9100/0 SEEN-BY: 9200/0 9300/0 9400/0 3 23 9410/0 9420/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 6 7 SEEN-BY: 9601/0 9603/0 9605/0 9608/0 9609/0 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 SEEN-BY: 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Lewis Cypher Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 9 May 95 05:29:30 Subject: High and Low Magic UpdReq Subject: High and Low Magic JN> I usually divide my work into two general categories, formal and informal. In formal works, I am looking to have a vision that explains the nature of a magickal force or region in detail, intend to record everything that happens as it occurs and expect to judge the results immediately afterwards. LC> Excellent explaination. That is what I am doing, part of the time, in my work with the Celestial Intelligences. My first wish was for more understanding of magic-natch. So, I have been getting these talismans for this and that, the symbols come from the CI, and I have been experimenting with automatic writing, as a mode to try and transcribe or draw symbols that have nothing within my past experience to 'grab' onto, so they are ambiguous. To tell the truth, its been kind of slow and uncertain with the automatic written symbol parts. The symbols shown in the scrystone are much more lasting and complete. No fuzzy intent in the middle to create doubt. It works better for my talisman manufacture if I use Spare's methods of desire reduction to a symbol of my own making, and then bring up the CI, incorporate the talisman in the rite, and do the finishing touches and final runes in the circle 'borrowing' the CI. As you say, words are quite understatement, and misstatement. I keep bashing against the linguistic limit in this. JN> In informal works, I don't really care what happens as long as something does, and tend to leave the results in a large mental bin labeled "possibly useful at some future time". LC> I get into doing stuff like this with the CI when a good time, planet and planwise, comes up and I have no 'formal' rites in the works. This is where the drawings of weird symbols of power have been generated and worked on. Informally, I have been working on control type talismans. The first one was to control the spirits of the element of air. It was a rather impressive success. LC> "a vision that explains the nature of a magickal force or region in detail" is what I am seeking, at times too. I have been using various aids, chants, warmups, diet, and devices to try to get more out of each contact. The timing comes by so seldom that I tend to do these round the clock marathons for as long as a week, invoking each CI and godform in its turn. When you are hot, you are hot. In these sessions, I sleep little, eat much, and fill downtime with calculations, trips to the art store and library for material, and watching a small collection of heavy magic orientated documovies. After the third day, the outside world ceases to exist, and a now expected set of thoughts and feelings take over. The work does the work. I feel I could go on forever, both then and now, so I will sumerize it by saying that the fare at that universal table is quite sustaining. LC> Proposed sign for the front door: "Leave the offerings on the top step behind the yellow line, please" JN> For the formal works, I use formal testing methods a la the Golden Dawn. Usually, several kinds at once. The appearance of the spirit is should match his nature... JN> Sometimes the spirit will provide you with a name or a nonsense word which, when analyzed by gematria, connects with the details of the other information they provide you. See Israel Regardie's books "The Golden Dawn" and "The Complete Golden Dawn" for details. LC> Hey, that is heavy. I will see how that works out from my notes. I have been given many 'nonsense words' which I wrote down as best as I could. I like permutations and recombinations. JN> The most worthwhile sorts of informal contacts usually aren't recognized as such until after they are over, so testing doesn't really apply; you can only judge the content of the experience. JN> In these contacts, the spirit "inspires" you; ideas, visions, new perceptions, etc. just appear in your awareness out of nowhere. Your attention is totally caught up in the experience until it ends, at which point there is a sense of a definite break. LC> The above last paragraph was most nourishing to my practice. I see that even though our methods are different, the results are similar. This exchange has been most gratifying. Looking forward to more of the same, Lewis p.s. Two posts were received on 3 May titled 'Consciousness Exaulted' and 'High and Low Magic.' Replies to these two will continue a bit at a time from my end. BCNU 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718