From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: JOSEPH MAX 11 Dec 94 16:31:20 Subject: RE: CHAOS UpdReq -=> JOSEPH MAX sent a message to CHRISTEOS PIR on 03 Dec 94 13:47:00 <=- -=> Re: RE: CHAOS <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JM> Well, judgments of artistic taste aside, it is what he was trying to JM> do with art - make visual magic formulae. Point taken. CP> That's a little different, somehow (though perhaps only so in my CP> mind). A sigil seems to me closer to a logo than a painting. JM> The same criticism leveled at much of Abstract Art, when you think JM> about it, eh? Not unless you're talking about Warhol, which is Pop rather than Abstract, I'd say. Stuff like Rothke, Klee, Pollack, or even Kandinsky seem to me to work on the same level -though obviously in different terms- as non-abstract art: that is, they attempt to communicate concepts via what, for lack of a better term, I'll label 'right-brain' language. JM> When I devise a sigil, I'm trying to come up with a pictoral JM> representation of a magical intent. The more "attractive" or JM> artistically pleasing I make the sigil, the more effective it seems to Likewise, since the few occasions that I use a sigil I tend to follow U.D.'s methods to some extent, unless it's an Enochian working. But this is more a process of synthesis or 'crystallization of desire' than one of communicating a linear progression of ideas as with a grimoire -- which is where we started: with the idea of a grimoire that uses, say, a painting, rather than a written page. JM> Cliche'? Perhaps, but making it impress your subconsciuous is what's JM> important, and since I'm an unfortunate victim of Hollywood horror JM> movie conditioning, I may as well put it to use! Cliches have a special power. That's why they're cliches! (Of course, it can be a power to repel: take a Norman Rockwell, f'rinstance!) JM> But I think pictoral spell-weaving is something that has hardly been JM> explored beyond Spares work, and deserves the attention of someone JM> with the requisite artistic talent! That probably lets me out, though I don't intend to let that stop me! As a former co-worker used to say, "If you cain't sing good, sing LOUD!" Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... the Existence that existeth not save through its own Existence, 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Gaia 11 Dec 94 16:34:14 Subject: Re: Wideranging Myths UpdReq -=> Gaia sent a message to CHRISTEOS PIR on 09 Dec 94 02:36:00 <=- -=> Re: Re: Wideranging Myths <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Thanks! He did in fact offer to help out, but I have no address for him. If you'd be so kind to pass mine along: C. Feldman P.O. Box 404 Ashburn VA 22011-0404 We'd better end this thread or move it to _Mundane_. Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... Let the scribe depart among his ways. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rab Area: MagickNet To: Fr. Yud 14 Dec 94 01:31:00 Subject: Re: A source for Resh ti UpdReq -=> Quoting Fr. Yud to All <=- FY> I am looking for a source that would list, on a daily basis the FY> times for the Liber Resh adorations. The times I need would be Sun FY> rise, Noon, Sun set, Midnight, and Moon rise. FY> Would a standard astrological ephemeris give there times? Does FY> anyone have any suggestions as to other sources I should look into? One of the best sources is a computer program that can do calculations based on your specific geo-coordinates. To find out what's available for download, ask in an astro/nomical/logical conference. Some almanacs & any astronomical observer's handbook give sunrise & moonrise times for various latitudes, but you won't find in them times for lunar & solar culminations. In any case, you will still have to make slight adjustments in times for rise & set based on your own observations of the horizon from your location, since horizons vary considerably from place to place. Higher & lower culminations, however, will require no adjustment and can be taken as is right from the program. Ultimately, there is no substitute for direct, personal observation. For risings & settings, once you make your first determinations, you'll know that the time will change for sunrise & set by just a few minutes on subsequent days -- earlier, up to the winter solstice, then gradually later towards the spring equinox, etc. If you set up a marker or gnomon that indicates due south, noon can be determined by the transit of the sun across that direction (meridian). 12 hours later, is midnight. In relation to clock time, these local times for noon & midnight vary only very slightly (by several seconds) each day. (Except when there is switch-over to Daylight Savings Time). Lunar culminations can be determined in the same way, although they will be earlier each day by about 52 minutes (+/- 7'). Almost the same precession of time for moonrise & set, (though the variance is slightly greater -- a few minutes at most -- due to its orbital difference from the ecliptic). Good luck! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Rab 12 Dec 94 09:06:30 Subject: Re: KARMA UpdReq 93 Rab, > Yes. But karma is seen (experienced) only through an individual's > perspective. How can we realistically talk about an "objective" force? > We can only talk convincingly about what we experience. The rest is > hearsay or fantasy. Exactly. Yet this seems to be what the popular def' of karma has become--some sort of cosmic equallizer, or a way of looking for 'fairness' in an unfair world. Y'know, I don't think we disagree at all. >RD> Do you see 'karma' as identical at certain levels with >RD> 'Success is thy proof' then? > > Yes. Ok. ;> >RD> it's plain common sense. People who are able to >RD> incorporate cosmic schemas without losing their common >RD> sense are too few and far between for comfort--IMHO of >RD> course! > > In this, you have no good reason to be humble - IMHO. Stand up and be > contented! Oh, I *always* stand up! Sometimes I'm even contented. ;> 93 93/93 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Bob Howard Area: MagickNet To: Gaia 12 Dec 94 10:04:00 Subject: Re: My Son, The Mage UpdReq -=> Quoting Gaia to All <=- Ga> GAIA SAYS: Ga> Hi Everybody! Hi Gaia Ga> STROHM SAYS: Ga> Hello everyone. A little about myself- My mother describes me as a Hi Strohm Ga> My mother and I both began our Exodus out of Mormonism Independantly Ga> of each other at approximately the same time. We found out Ga> about each other just in Ga> time to take our first wicca 101 class together when I was 15. She has Interesting because my wife and I have just departed that group. We both felt led to pursue other venues for our spiritual development. Ga> working to convince me that I have much in common with Pagans and Ga> wiccans, And that I am basicly Pagan. This could be true, as I doubt I feel a leaning toward Paganism myself, but too early to tell which direction I'm liable to take. I do know that any spiritual 'practice' must be something that one lives by... every hour of every day while awake. Ga> What can I say, I'm a Mother. Seems to me that you have a right to proud of such a son... Fare Well, LB ... Blue Wave - World Tour - 1994 ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rab Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 14 Dec 94 01:48:02 Subject: Re: Picture ritual UpdReq -=> Quoting Christeos Pir to Rab <=- CP> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Ra> Seems like an obvious kind of thing to do. If we don't get stuck in Ra> thinking that it should be a linear flow, eg left to right, we should Ra> be able to remember examples in history of such "pictures". CP> Actually, that linear thang _is_ what I was thinking about. Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that if we realise that other cultures, now and historically, are not always habituated to reading linearly from left to right, then we might discern examples of illustrated ritual in their works. In other words, they may have approached these illustrations linearly, but read them right to left, down to up, spirally, or by another permutation of linear sequencing. The sequence may even have been labyrinthine or maze-like, but still linear. Maze-lines, in fact, were often used to hide secret ritual formulae from the uninitiated. CP> I was thinking of something that 'told a ritual.' CP> Stationary Kenneth Anger, if you will, and using symbols, not signs or CP> literal illustrations; all in a cohesive, if not necessarily coherent whole. (Not a comic book, IOW. I can see it now: Classics Illustrated CP> presents The Goetia.) It really doesn't matter whether or not it's been done before, (unless your looking for some historical threads). It's a good idea and worth exploring. CP> Thankas, as you mention, especially mandalas, fit the general CP> description, though I was thinking more of spellwork than meditation. Mandalas are used also as guides to ritual performance. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718