From: RAINLAKE Area: MagickNet To: ROSE DAWN 17 Oct 94 01:37:58 Subject: Re: REPLY, PART ONE UpdReq -> Sheesh--I just realized--this must be fallout from that Rite of Mars -> this morning--whew! ;> But Aum Natarajah Aum anyway! :> -> ??????? y-> I think it was those all-devouring _Atrins_...pesky critters! ;> -> All-devouring nasal sprays? Oh, sorry, those are *Afrins*. What's an Atrin? -> Gee...we *do* have a lot in common! LOL. Steroids didn't make me want -> drink, or stone me out, although I *destested* every second of every -> of steroid treatment I've ever had, and it took me a very long time t -> rid of some of the side effects from em. My neurologist told me if th -> hadn't worked before, they weren't ever gonna, so I'm not going to ta -> anymore. I hear ya, girlfriend. They worked for me in a physical sense if injected straight into the inflamed muscles along with procaine, but the side effects sent me straight up the wall...and I was really afraid the next wall would be the liquor-store one. (And they made my so-far-rather-easy menopause go absolutely haywire.) After seven years clean and sober, that just wasn't acceptable. At least my currently active disease isn't terminal like active alcoholism is. -> Prednisone is an adrenal suppressant...and there are yoga asanas and Alas, we need to try to suppress my cytokines (a family of immunity chemicals) *without* suppressing adrenal function. -> it's actually easier for me to achieve altered states of consciousnes -> in periods of relapse than when in remission. Interesting. Does any of that relate to moonphase for you, or have you noticed? ->So I don't consider *an -> time wasted, and the emotional/psychological improvements manifest to No, none of it's wasted. -> or lesser degree in the physical as well, for me. Sheesh--maybe it's -> elusive thang called 'Balance'! ;> -> Shit, don't do anything rash like actuall becoming BALANCED....you'll make the rest of us look bad!! -> from the couch to the bathroom exhausted me so thoroughly I wasn't su -> could make it back. I get full-body muscle spasms and, unlike plain o -> they usually involve moderate-to-severe pain as well as stiffness and -> spasticity. The last fairly serious relapse I experienced came on the -> of radiant good health, with a daily two-hour regime of aerobic exerc -> free weight training, and advanced Hatha Yoga. I became MUCH more int -> acquainted with Apophis than any sane person would want to be--moreso -> would have thought possible. Sounds like it sucks. My two "little friends" are autoimmune myalgic encephalomyelitis (the nastier and more disabling form of what Americans insist on calling "chronic fatigue syndrome") and fibromyositis. The combination is substantially worse in terms of easy muscle inflammation and exhaustion and such than either separately. So I have to be incredibly cautious about what I do and don't do...and, like you, I've had plenty of days when I had to hang onto the wall to get to the bed without collapsing. But mine doesn't do some of the nasty stuff over time that MS does, for which I'm profoundly grateful. Wanna hear about good herbal muscle relaxants? Or have you found 'em all already? -> I completely abandoned my routine of yoga and C.M. ritual, and got in -> completely abandon. Pranayama is eminently do-able in these states, a -> painful or exhausting, so I have several prana techniques that I use -> day *no matter what*. Savasana with specific meditative and/or relaxa -> techniques would be good, I'd think. Some of the asanas and mudras ca -> accomplished with very little physical motion and little or no pain, -> boost. I've even done a modified Suryanamaskar in a wheelchair. I jus -> gonna lie down and go to sleep in the snow, know what I mean? ;> -> No, actually I don't, and that's an ongoing problem for me with your posts. PLEASE don't get me wrong: you are a very bright and interesting lady, and we DO have a lot in common, and I love it that you want to talk about this stuff, especially so helpfully. So I very definitely don't wanna come across rude or ungrateful here. But to be honest, it would be helpful if you'd write in English. Few people on this net are scholars of Sanskrit or Indian philosophy, let alone both; and to be even more honest, most of us are probably just not going to do what it takes become so anytime soon. Nor would giving us non-Indo-scholarly types a one-shot glossary help much either, I'm guessing....I get one read-through of these messages at somewhere between midnight and 3 a.m., with a fever-fogged memory, f'rinstance. Many others do their BBSing after a hard day's work and with squalling kids in the background. (I only have a squalling cat.) I know you are so immersed in this stuff and find it so useful and central that it is probably hard for you to realize that you're sometimes just not communicating with a lot of us, but (forgive me) you're truly not. And I know you want to, or you wouldn't be writing here. I truly hope that doesn't hurt your feelings. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Adrienne Area: MagickNet To: Paul Seymour 17 Oct 94 20:53:22 Subject: Love & Ethics UpdReq PS> It's commonly expressed, 'Oh, this PS> won't HARM them; it's really for their own good.' When you hear someone say PS> that, take cover, because something especially nasty is about to happen. Many of the world's ills are directly attributable to that attitude. PS> Is there ever a way to do a love spell and yet stay within the PS> parameters of the Witch's Rede? Possibly. Some teachers have argued that PS> if a spell doesn't attempt to attract a SPECIFIC person into your life, PS> but rather attempts to attract the RIGHT person, whomever that may be, PS> then it is not negative magic. Even so, one should make sure that the PS> spell finds people who are 'right' for each other -- so that neither is PS> harmed, and both are made happy. I admit, I have done love spells and likely will continue to do them. However, I do not ever, ever do "make Bobby fall in love with me" type spells. All I will do is help shape the circumstances where a relationship may develop. Either I will make an attraction spell for the sort of person the seeker wants to meet, giving them an opportunity to actually meet the person, or I will help create the circumstances where the love interest will be amenable to talking to the seeker. For example, if you came to me and said "I really wanna meet the tall blonde over there", I would be willing to help create the "accidental" meeting at a party, coffee shop or whatever. Once there, coffee in hand, you're on your own. Either she likes you or she doesn't. The most I will do is create a suggestion that she feels like going to the coffee shop and feels like being friendly. Nothing more. If you need magic to attract and hold a lover, you've got serious problems. If the problem is shyness and lack of opportunity to meet someone who may turn out to be special, I'm willing to help. If the problem is wanting instant gratification in relationships, I can't help you. Your problems are not something a simple spell can fix. Paul - I realise Mike Nichol wrote this, but I thought I'd address my comments to you. And the "you" in the above is generic, not personal. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Martin Krogh-Poulsen Area: MagickNet To: Pug-Ugly 30 Aug 94 02:20:00 Subject: Legion? UpdReq well, hi Pug-Ugly! it was around Friday March 10 1989 that Pug-Ugly informed ALARIC MORGAN: P> Hmm. I hate to belabor the obvious, but the only thing *I* can suggest P> with limited information is Cleansing/Warding the area he sleeps within, P> Giving him sufficient instruction on how to maintain it and pass through it P> properly, and hoping that allows him to slumber in peace. P> Sorry, I've never had anything attack me personally. P> Pug Hi there, and 93! I'm quite new here, but I'm nevertheless butting in, hope U don't mind :) This is a very serious situation! The saying goes that a possessed person is unable to be 'Healed' if this person has been possessed for a longer period of Time. Well, I'm not sure whether or not this is true, but several Magicians who have been experimenting with Banishings and confronting the 'Victim' with his own Deamons have all said the same: "The Cure has to come immediately!". Hope it helps... 93 93/93! Martin Krogh-Poulsen 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Martin Krogh-Poulsen Area: MagickNet To: JOSEPH MAX 5 Oct 94 20:25:00 Subject: Altered States UpdReq well, hi JOSEPH! it was around Friday September 30 1994 that JOSEPH MAX informed KAI MACTANE: JM> attain the state. Hmm, let's see if we can come up with a list: JM> ASC method Type of working JM> ------------------------!x! ------------------------------- JM> Homoerotic Orgasm ? ? ? I guess that here should be something like this: Regenerational / recreational magick. The thing about Homosexual magick (Man on Man) is that it activates the Kundalini (through the Muladhara), so one of the results would be a rejuvenating current! JM> monk levitating six feet off the floor. The problem, and he's taken a good JM> bit of detraction for it, is _how_ to measure such a thing. I would really JM> like to see the tools of bioscience applied here, such as doing EEGs or JM> MRI scans of subjects in gnostic trance states. TM (Transcendental Meditation) had projects going on that were like that! Their projects were only to show how goood TM was as opposed to normal-state of consciousness. Nevertheless they used the most high-tech equipment available at their time, to measure such things as: Respiration, the electric current on the skin (don't know it's exact scientific term :( , Biochemical changes, the Brain waves (Spectral analysis of the EEG in meditation), Autonomic Stability, Blood preasure and much much more. I suspect them of useing a scientific approach mainly to communicate with the 'Westerners' in a language they would understand. The only thing "Bad" about their research is that they only examined One kind of Gnostic trance! Martin Krogh-Poulsen 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Martin Krogh-Poulsen Area: MagickNet To: Grendel Grettisson 5 Oct 94 20:44:00 Subject: CHAOS UpdReq well, hi Grendel! it was around Monday October 03 1994 that Grendel Grettisson informed JOSEPH MAX: GG> This is exactly the kind of "secrets" that the order that I am in keeps. GG> People within the order have been doing research and work in a number of GG> areas, often for years as part of their personal work. Some found some GG> interesting techniques or ways of working but don't really want them sold GG> to the general public, mainly because they feel people wouldn't understand GG> them without some of the background material and hard work (which most GG> people seem unwilling to do). So, what they do is teach some of this stuff GG> as grade material or as part of side orders, thus keeping a little bit GG> better control on the learning of these "secrets" and their development. GG> You don't expect every think-tank or lab to give their techniques to the GG> world when they're using them for resarch. I feel that same about GG> techniques developed internally in magical groups. This sounds very wise of a Teaching Order! Could you please tell us what Order it is that you belong to? GG> Grendel Grettisson Martin Krogh-Poulsen 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Lazarus Long 17 Oct 94 09:48:14 Subject: Re: CHAOS UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > Could you give me some good books to read about the OTO and info on > how to find a chapter or something? I'm really curious. On the O.T.O. specifically? Hmmm...no, not really! For information on Thelema as a philosophy and magical system, I would highly recommend Lon Milo Duquette's _The Magick of Thelema_, fairly new paperback from Weiser, ISBN 0-87728-778-3, $14.95. Also either _Magick in Theory and Practice_ or _Magick Without Tears_ by Alesiter Crowley, for more on Thelemic-style magick. To me personally, the latter work is much more clear, concise, and actually instructive in an easily understood manner. Also, of course, _Liber AL vel Legis_, the Book of the Law. This is in print and also available for download from bbs's the world over. ;> _The Law Is For All_ is Liber AL with Crowley's Commentaries thereon all together, and an intro by Israel Regardie. _Liber Tzaddi_ is one of my favorites, and discusses initiation in a poetical manner. Crowley's _Confessions_, edited by Symonds & Grant, has some fascinating info about/by AC, his life, his magick, the O.T.O., A'A', mountain climbing...LOL. Any bbs with a decent file section dealing with ceremonial magick and/or Crowley's work would contain several text files more specifically regarding the O.T.O. I note that your bbs address is in Oregon. The latest _Magical Link_ lists the following local O.T.O. bodies in Oregon: Coph Nia Oasis, P.O. Box 11921, Eugene, OR 97440 Portland Camp, P.O. Box 42075, Portland, OR 97242. You can also write directly to the Ordo Templi Orientis, P.O. Box 430, Fairfax, CA 94978 for more info. And--of course--NuitNet's THELEMA echo contains a wealth of information for the brave soul with an interest in Thelema. ;> Let me know if there's anything else I can do, or that you'd like to discuss. :> Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kalioppe Area: MagickNet To: All 18 Oct 94 16:01:00 Subject: Help! UpdReq Greetings, Goodfolk! Patricia Telesco requested that I share the following with all of you in hopes that you might help her with her current project. ***** "Could you network over the computer, through the mail or whatever with people regarding a new book I'm assembling? Its called _WishCraft: Magical Manifestation_ and it's all about folklore & superstition about making wishes, wish fulfillment, etc. "I would like to know what little bits of unusual lore folks know from family, friends and their reading. If the information is taken from a book, the title, author, publisher, city of publication and year of printing would be very helpful to documentation. Every contribution will be properly cited to the individual who sent it, so they should tell me if they want magical or mundane names used. This information can be sent to me at the following address: Patricia Telesco 492 Breckenridge Buffalo, NY 14213" ***** Because all of you have been so generous in your efforts to help me with my projects, I thought you might be kind enough to help her, as well. Lots of us feel that we, as the Pagan Community, are ignored by a good number of today's Craft authors. This is an opportunity to put your personal two cent's worth in and have it count for something, so don't delay! Get your ideas, spells and scenarios in to Trish today... Much love, hugs and kisses! Kal... ... Wiccan fruit pies -- made with perfect love and perfect crust. -Jrtm 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718