From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 25 Aug 93 21:10:42 Subject: MDMA Rec'd UpdReq AS> Who told you those were side-effects? When did these cases take AS> place? At what dosage level? Street use or clinical? The death by dehydration was mentioned in a report on TV (CNN or PBS?). A Dutch doctor was interviewed about folks who died during raves. You could see the pain in his eyes, so I doubt it was just propaganda. The permanent pseudo-Parkinson's is well-known. I spoke about it with a doctor friend of mine (MD & PhD in neurochemistry). I think he mentioned something about dopamine. Street use, of course. Dosage Level way too high. Very likely contaminated or even another drug entirely, but it happens frequently enough to be worrisome. You can go play with that stuff if ya want, I'm not stopping ya. Just don't complain when I mention the hazards. AS> Put your homework where your mouth is, son... A sentence like that is not the best way to win friends and influence people. If you're going to be so rude, I'd rather end this thread now. ... Generic Tagline. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Fillander Kishpa 25 Aug 93 09:05:00 Subject: Tarot UpdReq FK> Great. How do YOU use it to delve into yourself? I feel that Tarot FK> is simply a channel for yourself. Each person has this, for lack of a FK> better word, wa, inside and simply needs a way to release it. Is this FK> the same for you? The deck I use most: The Witches Tarot by Ellen Cannon Reed, is focused at the Spiritual quest and internal psychological states. I take her interpretations and/or pictures and use them to see qualities in myself that I may be rejecting or need to work on. Mostly I use the standard Celtic Cross layout, because I'm used to it. ... There's a seeker born every minute! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Fillander Kishpa 25 Aug 93 09:07:36 Subject: Re: that tome UpdReq BE:>... I had my car's alignment checked...it's Chaotic Evil. FK> A tailpipe of alignment change would do wonders. I've got one here, FK> give it to 'ya for 50 bucks, that'll make it CN, no problem! Much FK> more enlightning, and less dangerous for you! Leave me a note.... Actually, I always used to play CN characters back when I still had time for D&D. I figure since the universe is Chaotic Neutral, I should be too. ... I wonder how many hit points Buddha had? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 25 Aug 93 21:18:36 Subject: ELVIS CHRIST--SUPERSTAR UpdReq KB> BTW, i am afraid that i am currently uniformed of elvis middle-name. Elvis Aaron Presley, I think. ... Ladies and Gentlemen, Elvis has just left the building! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Barry Area: MagickNet To: Eagle Wizard 27 Aug 93 10:00:08 Subject: Acronyms UpdReq EW>Barry talked, about Acronyms >+--------------------------------------> >|Hi all - It's fascinating, lurking back in the shadows and >|eavesdropping and learning a lot from you folks but I have to ask - >|WHAT IS ROFL? Also LOL. I've got IMHO & BTW & IOW figured out, but >|ROFL and LOL are tormenting. IOU my thanks :). >+--------------------------------------> EW>Hey, don't just lurk, jump in, and join the conversation. EW>I know a lot of folk will answer you, but I thought I would anyway. EW>ROFL = Rolling On [the] Floor laughing EW>LOL = Laughing Out Loud EW>Somewhere this is a text file floating around that explains all of >the most common acronyms. They are pretty universal for all >networks. EW>Blessed Be Hi EW - Thanks a million! You can only imagine what weird things I tried to come up with for those pesky acronyms. And I do believe I will jump in a little more, now that I'm getting familiar with the lingo, the characters, and the politics. The subject matter is fascinating, and mostly new to me. Thanks again, Eagle Wizard, for helping to make me feel welcome. Blessed Be, Barry * SLMR 2.1a * Today the World, tomorrow the Solar System! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Thomas Palmer 27 Aug 93 13:42:52 Subject: RE: MASONRY and O.T.O. UpdReq Thomas- AF&AM rules regarding the OTO vary in each jurisdiction, so you should probably check with your local Master. Initially, the OTO's recogniyion by the Grand Orient as a Co-Masonic body, plus its claim to explicate the keys of Blue Lodge and Scottish Rite symbolism, plus its charter in Memphis And Mizraim, a rite under John Yarker that was declared clandestine by Grand Lodge of Great Britain, all added up to clandestine-with-a-capital-C. The OTO today has shed the pretensions to Masonry in the AF&AM sense which led to these issues (or it seems to me that it has). Our primary concern is with the magical aspects of our initiatory system, and the promulgation of the Law of Thelema. Some jurisdictions consider the OTO an occult fraternity, and hence irrelevant to accepted Masonry, and do not restrict their members from joining. Others maintain a strict ban. Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 26 Aug 93 19:16:36 Subject: Re: TV SPECIAL UpdReq -=> Rose Dawn sent a message to Albert Saperstein on 21 Aug 93 09:27:35 <=- -=> Re: Re: TV SPECIAL <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> specials being what they are and all...most likely Twinkie-devouring, RD> Pepsi-swilling blonde women named She Who Mates With Wolves promoting RD> evil in our nation's youth with crystal-chakra-balancing and skyclad RD> past life regressions and such. What better way to drive America's RD> Youth to the darkside? Now waitaminit... "Amazon Women In The Avocado Jungle Of Death" was a _classic_! And I'm convinced that Linnea Quigley is the undisputed queen of the B's. Move over, Barbara Steele! ;-) Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... and the gallows of infamy dance with the fruit of the just. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Fillander Kishpa 27 Aug 93 00:59:04 Subject: Elvis Christ? UpdReq 93 fillander, thanks for your post. i think the article just scrolled off of here really quickly. glad you thought it was interesting. 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Julia Phillips 27 Aug 93 01:00:48 Subject: Re: SHAMANISM & C.M. UpdReq 93 julia, -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Rose Dawn <=- KB> 93 rose dawn (i'm beginning to think i need a macro to type that KB> salutation in!) JP> Now *that's* lazy :-) aw, come on now---you have no idea how much time it could save! JP> thread. One of the things I wonder - a delineation is often made JP> between CM and Shamanism along the lines of CM=structure, JP> Shamanism=spontaneity. Not quite that limited, but you get the drift. i think that that delineation is, to an extent (probably a limited extent) valid. much of C.M., especially cabalistic C.M., is filled with shoulds and shouldn'ts about the method of doing ritual. when i first started practicing, i felt really uptight about all of these things. (probably thought terrible things would happen if i didn't do the ritual exactly right ) after a few years, i realized that the structure as given in the books and given by various teachers i had had, was actually stifling my magical development. crowley urged people to base their methods on the sort of results that it got. i realized that i had been basing my methods exclusively on what had been handed down through the G.D./Thelemic traditions. when i started to allow myself to get a bit looser, i seemed to get far better results. i guess it may be a question of having a particular framework solidly 'down', and then being able to stretch out a bit within that framework. my other interest in incorporating shamanistic techniques into C.M. is because in my limited knowledge of shamanism, there seems to be more emphasis on ecstatic techniques, ie. chant, dance, etc. i started experimenting with these kinds of things, as well as incorporating more sense of gesture into my ritual. i found the results to be really great. much of what i have been experimenting with has been inspired by various chaos magicians and various writings done by people in the chaos magick community. the chaos magician's seem to me to be the only C.M.'s who are incorporating alot of ecstatic technique into their ritual on a regular basis. JP> utterly without structure. JP> Similarly with CM - although some rituals are very precise and JP> structured, often within that framework, there is a total release which JP> seems to me to be very akin to what I perceive as shamanism. yes, i agree with you here, though i think that that is under the 'best' of circumstances. i think that much of C.M. tradition has a rather restrictive quality to it, which does allow that release, but not to the extent that it might. JP> All of this is just perception on my part, but thought I'd throw it in JP> for what it's worth. Does this strike any chords with you? yes, generally i agree with you. though i'm curious about what your opinions are regarding my comments about this topic. good to talk to you! 93, ---kayla BTW, i don't suppose that you might have a copy of the thread regarding southern vs. northern hemisphere magick that we had. i'm kicking myself for not hanging on to a copy! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Stryder 23 Aug 93 01:10:00 Subject: Re: MILO UpdReq In a message dated 08-19-93 STRYDER wrote to ISMARK: Is> I find it difficult to believe that even Robertson is this warped. Is> Could you please elaborate on this story? I love to hear stories of Is> the man's lunacy. Is> S> S> Dead serious, I was sitting here one morning, working through S> the message bases on the computer and the 700 Club came on the S> television. I didn't pay it any mind, I occassionally like to hear S> what they are doing, and who is their latest target. Anyway, I was S> sitting and reading through the message bases when I heard him make S> the comment that the "Girl Scouts of America" was a pagan S> organization because they paid respects to Mother Earth. I think his S> exact wording was something "worshipped mother earth". I about fell S> out of my chair laughing over that one, thinking he must be getting S> real desparate to attack an organization like that. It was however, S> during one of his multitude of fund raisers he holds on television S> to keep his show on the tube. As for all the data on his ROTFLMMFFAO. That's hilarious (sp?). According to this guy the whole world is out to get him. This guy's always targeting someone. I remember one show about heavy metal being the tool of Satan (hahahahaha). You should find my post about him giving financial advice, it's around here somewhere. S> accusation, I didn't catch much, I just remember that commented and S> the effect that it had on me. It ranked right up there with his S> claim that he was not an evangelist during the time that he was S> going to run for President (that was a scary thought). If Robertson *ever* became president of this country I think I'd have to leave. Even if congress kept him in check non-Christian religons would be screwed. Not to mention the entertainment industry, and just about anything else he didn't agree with. Even if he couldn't pass laws to abolish all these things his cronies (read: the people who send his show money) would go crazy trying to eradicate all these 'UnAmerican'm things in the world. This isn't even considering what he'd do to the economy, world trade, foreign affairs, the school system, the community service programs, the Flintstanes, Northern Exposure, Star Trek, Ect. ...Everything doesn't happen for the best, it happens for us to make the best of. -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 23 Aug 93 01:13:00 Subject: Re: ELVIS CHRIST? UpdReq In a message dated 08-20-93 KAYLA BLOCK wrote to ALL: KB> i posted my Elvis Christ Superstar article, but just noticed it KB> seems to have disappeared. (maybe it's just scrolled off?) we were KB> having some minor board problems here when i posted it. did it get KB> out? or did it disappear out into cyberspace? It made it. I have it on disk. ...Everything doesn't happen for the best, it happens for us to make the best of. -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 23 Aug 93 01:16:00 Subject: Re: ELVIS THE SAVIOR Rec'd UpdReq In a message dated 08-19-93 ALBERT SAPERSTEIN wrote to KAYLA BLOCK: AS> Viva Las Vegas! Waitaminute. That could involve ZZ-Top in the second coming . Ant they are a trinity. ...Everything doesn't happen for the best, it happens for us to make the best of. -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ismark Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 23 Aug 93 01:35:00 Subject: Re: TV SPECIAL UpdReq In a message dated 08-21-93 ROSE DAWN wrote to ALBERT SAPERSTEIN: RD> > Oh boy, I hope I'm in it. RD> Me-2! Although I'm sure you'd be left on the cutting room floor, RD> HBO specials being what they are and all...most likely RD> Twinkie-devouring, Pepsi-swilling blonde women named She Who Mates RD> With Wolves promoting evil in our nation's youth with RD> crystal-chakra-balancing and skyclad past life regressions and such. RD> What better way to drive America's Youth to the darkside? Rose, do you have a date that this show is going to appear? I don't have HBO and I was wondering if it happened to fall on the days of the Cox cable free preview. If not d'you think I could convince you to tape it for me? Sweet Rose, lovely Rose, beautiful Rose. ...Everything doesn't happen for the best, it happens for us to make the best of. -> Alice4Mac 2.2b2 E QWK Eval:17Aug93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 23 Aug 93 09:21:12 Subject: Re: SHAMANISM & C.M. UpdReq 93/Namaste Kayla, Macros--why didn't I think of that? ;> > yes, well i think that most paths will show alot of similarities if > you deconstruct, (and often if you don't). i don't know, i guess i Oh no, is a conspiracy theory taking shape? Eeeek! Nah...I suppose some combo of shared information and the idea that certain things work better than other 'things' would account for many of the similarities. > haven't really even fully formulated what i've been trying to ask > regarding these c.m./shamanism questions. hmmm... I'm neither a scholar nor a psychologist (nor do I play one on teevee), but I remember your wanting to contact others who incorporate shamanistic techniques into C.M. So...the idea interests you, you want to explore it, see how other people have managed to combine the techniques, get an idea about where and how they do so, and how well it works for those who've done it? Maybe possibly could be perhaps? More than one wise man has said that the best rituals are those designed by the individual, especially spontaneously. Remember the words of the Wise and Powerful Nike commercial! Hehehe... 93/93 RD 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Ismark 23 Aug 93 09:34:20 Subject: GERALDOMANIA UpdReq Namaste Ismark, > Well, you don't nessesarily have to make a fool out of yourself. > You can get on Geraldo's show and attempt to argue with him, but > he'll interupt you and ask stupid questions. And his audiance will > agree with him all the way, because before the show the audiance > spends two hours listening to subliminals saying, 'Geraldo is always > right. Geraldo is the talkshow messiah. Geraldo opened Capone's > vault to save you from your sins.' Was that supposed to be a contradiction? ;> Actually, I guess those who walk the Geraldo Public Party Line will come across as heros rather than fools. So either way, in the end...! Actually, how can one not be in awe of someone who agrees to have his butt liposuctioned on international television just for a rating's boost? Or run around with tape all over his nose, proclaiming it a badge of his cojones? (hmm, proving the old axiom about noses?) The fact that the awe might take the form of "Aww, jeeze, what a weirdo!" is irrelevant. ;> I must in fairness confess that I recently watched "Oprah" for the first time, and actually kinda like her. And I believe the starched and proper blonde from outa town has earned a place of honor somewhere in the deepest, darkest, most twisted recesses of *both* our fond memory banks, eh? ;> 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Ismark 23 Aug 93 09:44:06 Subject: Re: TV SPECIAL UpdReq Hiya Ismark (time for another new macro??), > Rose, do you have a date that this show is going to appear? I don't > have HBO and I was wondering if it happened to fall on the days of > the Cox cable free preview. If not d'you think I could convince you No, I don't--just saw one of those 'preview' doo-dah's. "Coming This September on HBO!!" Maybe if you called Cox Cable & asked 'em when the special was going to run they'd tell you. (Duuuh--of course they would.) They might have transcripts available too, I dunno. I ordered transcripts when Channel 7 ran their week-long "local dibbil-cult" series on the news. Of course, then the fun of seeing if you recognize any of the faces is null & void. My VCR is hosed. If you have any friends with cable, invite yourself over & have a League With The Prince of Darkness party! > to tape it for me? Sweet Rose, lovely Rose, beautiful Rose. Flattery will get you skew-wise looks and appeals for donations to the Eternal Order of the Rosey Dawn... > ...Everything doesn't happen for the best, it happens for us to make > the best of. But taglines that I like will earn you a place in my deep, dark, twisted Fond Memory Banks. (Substantial penalty for early withdrawal) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Ismark 23 Aug 93 12:11:38 Subject: PAT ROBERTSON UpdReq > ROTFLMMFFAO. That's hilarious (sp?). According to this guy the > whole world is out to get him. This guy's always targeting someone. > I remember one show about heavy metal being the tool of Satan > (hahahahaha). You should find my post about him giving financial > advice, it's around here somewhere. Did anybody ever see the show wherein Pat explained that the "Masters of the Universe" toys were tools designed to train children in occultism and Satan worship? (Along with, of course, D&D, Ouija Boards, and Nintendo... we wouldn't want our children using their imaginations, now, would we?) I also saw the show (series, actually) on financial advice (Now You Too Can Get Rich By Following Biblical Investment Precepts or; Jesus Saves... but only at banks that don't fund abortionists or homosexuals). I used to be quite a 700 Club fan; while he's not quite as colorful as Jimmy "Let He With An Empty Hand Cast The First Stone" Swaggart, he can usually be counted on for at least one hysterically funny stupid statement per show. My personal favorite was the time he was interviewing this obviously crazed Charismatic Faith Healer, who informed a woman in the audience "God is going to heal you of your arthritis RIGHT NOW!!!!" He began praying in tongues... a thin trail of drool ran down his chin. They cut to a commercial.... when they came back the preacher and the arthritic woman were gone. Somehow I suspect God didn't heal her arthritis as promised, but I'm not sure on that. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paladin Area: MagickNet To: Thomas Izaguirre 25 Aug 93 19:32:00 Subject: Choronzon Club UpdReq TI> Could you please run the info regarding that little TI> organization by again? Owing to the obsolescence of my TI> system, I could not download your previous answers and I TI> would appreciate hearing it again. I am compiling info on TI> c.m. and Lovecraft-inspired worship and neglected to record TI> your earlier answer. Thank you! Sure, glad to oblige. PH>Has this fatuous nonsense really been going on that long? Oh, yes! PH>I must admit to finding no documentation in the writings of PH>magicians in the period (30-40's) or the often bemused PH>observations in the correspondence of the fantasy writers PH>whose work comprises the "Lovecraft mythos" to support the PH>statement... Well, I suggest you take a look at the GBG under Russell, as well as Frater Achad's Fellowship of Ma-Ion. They were both delving into Chaos Magick long before it became "popular." Lovecraft's writings fit right in with their exotic cosmologies & practices. Lovecraft's work first appeared in 1919 but from 1923 on it was frequently published in "Weird Tales." Also from HPL's letters it's clear he was aware Crowley & his Magickal workings. Nor was Lovecraft the first author to hint at the darker side of things as anyone who's read E.A. Poe, Arthur Machen or Algernon Blackwood is well aware. Both Machen & Blackwood were members of the G.D & Machen was one of Lovecraft's favortie authors! Russell makes Grant look like a teetotaler!! Russell started his first group the Choronzon Club [which he claimed was the fast track to initiation], which later called itself the GBG as far back as 1931, a good 20 years *before* Grant founded his Nu-Isis Lodge. Russell was too much for even Crowley, as Crowley laments in Confessions. Modernly there is Michael Bertiaux's La Coulevre Noire [The Cult of the Black Snake], Monastery of the Seven Rays, Lovecraftian Coven, the Cult of Choronzon etc. which combines the Lovecraft mythos with, Voudon, Tantric & O.T.O. sex practices, Gnosticism, UFOlogy and lots of other things. Fri 06-04-1993 19:05:13 Paladin ****************************************************************************** The best book on the GBG that I've found is Louis Culling's _The complete Magick Curriculum of the Secret Order G.'.B.'.G.'._ Culling was the Primate of the San Diego lodge in the 30's. Wed 08-25-1993 19:30:27 Paladin * RM 1.1 B0005 * CTHULHU CALLS: And charges the call to Choronzon's #! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paladin Area: MagickNet To: Julia Phillips 25 Aug 93 18:44:02 Subject: Enochian UpdReq JP> Hi Paladin - long time no type :-) HI! :-) JP> Pa> To my knowledge there was JP> Pa> no occult fraternity prior to the GD that had as much scope or depth JP> Pa> as the GD who, also admitted women on an equal basis. It laid the JP> Pa> foundations of the Western Magickal Traditions of today. This was JP> Pa> not just speculation or theory but hands on Magick. JP> I'd agree with your comments, but wonder if you've considered the JP> influence of Anna Kingsford's Hermetic Society, and good Madame JP> Blavatsky? Also, Well in ranking order it would be: November 17, 1875 First meeting of Blavatsky's Theosophy Society held at Mott Memorial Hall, New York, N.Y. May 11, 1884 The London branch of the Theosophy Society is founded under A.P. Sinnett. A separate branch is founded called the Hermetic Lodge of T.S. by Mrs. Anna Bonus Kingsford the group is later known as just the Hermetic Society which becomes totally separate. March 1, 1888 The warrant of the Golden Dawn signed. The Isis Urania Temple NO.3 of the G.'. D.'. is chartered. In fact Mathers was greatly influenced by Anna Bonus Kingsford and her progressive ideas about admitting women as equals to men. He dedicated one of his books to her. :-) However there is a great deal of difference between the TS of Blavatsky or even the TS, Esoteric Section [founded Oct 9, 1888 to combat what HPB saw as sheep stealing by the upstart G.D.] and/or the ideas of Anna Bonus Kingsford and the teachings of the G.D. The G.D. covered a far wider curriculum than either TS or the Hermetic Society and employed ceremonial Magick which HPB loathed. JP> (from memory, so I'm open to correction on this!) I believe the JP> Society for Psychical Research was active pre-GD. The TS and JP> Hermetic Society were founded and run by women, and the SPR has a JP> very strong female membership. Just a few thoughts in the cauldron, JP> so to speak. SPR was founded in 1882 with a mandate to investigate Theosophy. In the process SPR found that =some= of HPB's manifestations were done by trickery, as a result TS membership fell off sharply. Making way for the Hermetic Society, the G.D., the O.T.O. and a host of other groups. Wed 08-25-1993 19:16:46 Paladin * RM 1.1 B0005 * Parking for Wizards only -- Violators will be toad 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Doug Nelson Area: MagickNet To: Dominic Aspel 27 Aug 93 08:27:04 Subject: Pyramid Power UpdReq DA> Has anyone here ever used a pyramid in any form of magick? Like maybe DA> casting a pyramid instead of a circle? :) Actually, traditional Norse magic uses 3 anchor points for their circles rather than the "traditional" 4. They also cast a six-fold circle. It works very well. (I have no knowledge of Astartu (sp.), just traditional Norse.) B*B -Doug ___ X KWQ/2 1.1 X News flash: Dyslexic Christian sells soul to Santa; details at 11 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Doug Nelson Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 27 Aug 93 08:27:06 Subject: Re: SHAMANISM & C.M. UpdReq KB> to be more emphasis on ecstatic techniques, ie. chant, KB> dance, etc. i started experimenting with these kinds of KB> things, as well as incorporating more sense of gesture into KB> my ritual. i found the results to be really great. I agree 100%. A little martial arts, dance, or yoga training can do wonders. Kendo is particularly good for doing pentacles. If you put your whole body into it and breath with the movements (inhale up, hold across, exhale down) you get *much* more energy than you do if you are just moving your arm. I'm a firm believer in the adage "if it's not nailed down, steal it." I'll use a tibetan buddhist mantra, and a shamanic journeying technique to go on a kabbalistic pathworking. Tai Chi practice also works well for keeping a continuos flow of movement/attention/ energy throughout a ritual. -B*B Doug ___ X KWQ/2 1.1 X If you don't create your own reality, You're living in someone el 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 28 Aug 93 09:10:20 Subject: MDMA Sent UpdReq The pseudo-Parkinson's effect is induced by a drug called MPTP, which turns up in tainted heroin and a street package called "loads". It has no relationship whatsoever to MDMA. These rave trendoids have no idea what they are ingesting, and any number of factors could combine to induce dehydration at one of these things. When they do get their hands on MDMA, they frequently abuse it, the side effect of which is clinical depression, not death. I was not recommending that YOU ingest this drug. From what I gather about you, you are coping very bravely with a difficult transition, and you have indicated that you are seeing a professional. That professional is the only one qualified to suggest pharmacological modalities. I don't get my information on drugs from the mass media, I read clinical reports. I suggest you do the same if you have an interest in the subject. I'm a bad guy to argue drugs with, as they happen to be one of my few areas of expertise. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: GROVE WATCHER Area: MagickNet To: Phug 25 Aug 93 15:47:00 Subject: Umm.. Information. UpdReq -=> Quoting Phug to Kettlingurr <=- Ke> *I* don't. *They* come find me. Not only Taliesin, but the Lord & Ke> Lady Ph> Ph> Who are the Lord and Lady? Ph> Phug Not to sound cocky, but do you really not know who the Lord and LAdy are? Or, perhapse, you are not well versed in Pagan terminology. In any event, They are teh Two primal,basic, cooperatively opposed forces of Life. They are teh Personifications of Life. Blessed Be Grove ... Not only do I steal taglines...recipies too, got any ?!? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718